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Enamel cut with lacquer thinner


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#1 Cato

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:42 AM

I know this is Donn's 'innovation' and renders great results.
But can you decant spray can enamel and cut that with lacquer thinner-or is that not necessary?
I know that the thinner allows the paint to flow out smoother and flatter. I'd like those qualities for high gloss without a lot of coats.
If it should be cut with lacquer thinner, does that change the amount of time between coats? I currently go about 10 minutes between thin coats for coverage and a long drying period unless heated.

#2 Miatatom

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:55 AM

I'm a novice builder but I decanted some French Blue and shot it through an air brush. It worked fine without thinning.

#3 CadillacPat

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:52 AM

Cheap Lacquer Thinner has been used for thinning Enamels for a long long time. I think everyone tries it out at some point in their AirBrushing.
After all, once you realize you can clean your gun with Lacquer Thinner it makes sense you can (maybe) use the same chemical for thinning purposes.

I was painting 1000 of these Convention Cars back in 2004, and used it to thin two cheap Green and Yellow aerosol paints.
Posted Image

You can use Lacquer Thinner to thin your Enamels, and even Automotive Paints.
But, should you???????

If you are "Misting" you can ususally shoot anything over anything and it will stick with no problems.
But,
Is misting the best way to paint?
Some may confuse misiting with dusting and that could give you a paintjob that looks like a Chia Pet, you know, heavy grainy overspray piled up.
And, you must be careful to use the same ratio of Lacquer Thinner that you use in your color coats, in your Primer.
Why?
Because a mixture of Lacquer Thinner/Enamel over plain Enamel or Enamel that has been thinned with a lower ration of Lacquer Thinner, could be disastrous. Misting may avoid this problem. As I said, if you mist lightly enough you can paint anything over anything.

But,
If you practice with your AirBrush, mix your paints correctly, and work with a psi between 20-30 lbs,
You can move in and "lay down" your paint in better overlapping wet passes.
No chance of grainy overspray and you don't waste paint.
For all those painting in an apartment or room of their house, misting creates a lot more paint and fumes in the air.

If you have mastered your misting and like painting that way then that is fine, whatever works for you.
I think the idea of misting might be attractive to some newcomers because they are intimidated by the AirBrush itself and mixing paint for it.
I've answered a lot of questions over the years from those who are intimidated about buying and using an AirBrush.

Be careful about spraying an Enamel/Lacquer Thinner mix over a straight Enamel layer, it could boil up on you.
That's the rub in combining paint systems. It's great to experiment, you never know what you may find.
But if you stick with a system and use it, you'll never have a problem with your paint.

CadillacPat

#4 Cato

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:58 AM

I didn't mean to imply that Donn 'invented' the idea.
I'm shooting currently at 22psi which is giving me the right pattern. I get even coverage and flatness without any nasties. I was referring to the first color coats- a mist coat or two just to get even coverage. Then a bit more paint volume for third, glossy top coat.
I shoot in my empty 2 car garage but with no booth. Never below 60 deg. or above 65% humidity.
What I'm really concerned with is the amount of time between coats-especially thinned with lac thin which I've never done before.

#5 Guest_G Holding_*

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:04 AM

If you use the Yost method....You keep misting until you get gloss and even coverage No window...keep it flowing.

Sorry Pat...I have seen Donns awards.. No Donn didn't invent this way...BUT he did perfect it. You want to be the "paint pro"...fine, get off the rear, try WB and Enamels...Yes they are different than HOK....Watch Donns DVD...2 parts paint, 1 part cheap lacquer thinner...32 psi They will compleatly dry and gas out in 3 days...In a dehydrator or even your "oven" should be dry in 24 hours ...with 10 to 15 mist coats....

No I don't want to read your paragraphs about how it can't , doesn't, won't.

Pleas try to understand this simple thought...IT WORKS...go look and learn.

Edited by G Holding, 11 October 2012 - 11:06 AM.


#6 Guest_G Holding_*

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:09 AM

Sorry Cato.....With decanted enamel, it will be thin enough right out of the can....It will dry quicker with some lacquer thinner....BUT you may need the "norbie method" for that....really thin and 10 psi.
That takes lots of practice....I shoot all of my enamel jobs over lacquer primers...never any issue.

#7 CadillacPat

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:44 AM

If you use the Yost method....You keep misting until you get gloss and even coverage No window...keep it flowing.

Sorry Pat...I have seen Donns awards.. No Donn didn't invent this way...BUT he did perfect it. You want to be the "paint pro"...fine, get off the rear, try WB and Enamels...Yes they are different than HOK....Watch Donns DVD...2 parts paint, 1 part cheap lacquer thinner...32 psi They will compleatly dry and gas out in 3 days...In a dehydrator or even your "oven" should be dry in 24 hours ...with 10 to 15 mist coats....

No I don't want to read your paragraphs about how it can't , doesn't, won't.

Pleas try to understand this simple thought...IT WORKS...go look and learn.


I have to say Holding, you are always amusing and theatrical.
Try and read my reply without your usual negativity towards what I write.
I ADDED information that is ALSO known to be true and I can't read anywhere in my post where I stated that Yosts method will not work.
I just can't understand you thinking about me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CadillacPat

#8 Cato

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:00 PM

Guys,
Didn't want to start a piss contest. You both gave me really good and useful info.
We all have our favorite methods that work for us. If they are contrary, let's just offer both sides of the coin. The information helps everyone.
In my case I appreciate getting what I ask for and try everything before I make it my method of choice.

#9 Guest_G Holding_*

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:32 PM

You can use Lacquer Thinner to thin your Enamels, and even Automotive Paints.
But, should you???????

#10 Cato

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:14 PM

You can use Lacquer Thinner to thin your Enamels, and even Automotive Paints.
But, should you???????

Is that a rhetorical question?
Apparently it's more than just 'thinning'. It seems it lays down the enamel thinner and dries to a higher gloss than enamel reducers.
It's a fact that many have had success doing it. Why should I not?

#11 LoneWolf15

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:01 PM

Awww , man !

Pat , you didn't knock the method but you certainly muddied the waters , didn't you ?

To clarify ... continuous mist coats produces a superior overall smooth glasslike finish . There is no dry or orange peeled finish involved . As for any attack on primer coats , impossible , as the method uses no primer whatsoever . Testors metallizer is used as a base under metallics and pearls for it's reflective quality .

The cheap laquer thinner warms the enamel , allowing it to flow and lay down smooth , and dries quick and tight . Best part ? There is no chance of it attacking or affecting the plastic at the aforementioned ratio . The same ratio applys for the clear , I've taken the ratio to 50/50 with no adverse affects .

It is a visual age that I refer to as the Doubting Thomas Syndrome , hence , the reason for the DVDs in the first place . Visibility lends to credibility .... Doubt it ? Check out my website , what I put on the vending tables , what goes on the show tables , there's my side of the argument .

Don't knock it until you've tried it !

Cato , you need to lay continuous coats down until you achieve your desired color depth and smoothness . As for decanting , straight out of the can should work just fine , adding a small amount of cheap laquer thinner certainly won't
hurt , especially when you're decanting Testors enamels .

Hope this helps !

#12 Cato

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:51 PM

It does as does the other view points. You answered my critical question-how long between coats.
The answer is 'no waiting'. I get it. For the record I'm using Tammy fine white primer scuffed to 3600, Testors spray enamel decanted, shooting 22 to 25psi and I'll use Clean Strip thinner.
With no dehydrator, how long to dry-a week? And if I decide on clear, same method right?
OR- what about adding clear (say 33%) to the color along with lacquer thinner...??

#13 CadillacPat

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:00 PM

Awww , man !

Pat , you didn't knock the method but you certainly muddied the waters , didn't you ?




Don you do get the point. With mixing Enamels and Lacquers there is a chance of things getting muddled. Exactly what I meant.
It's easy for someone who's been painting for years and years to break the supposed rules that govern AirBrushing.
But,
People new to the art should see all sides of something and have not only the pros but the cons of techniques to decide from.

I don't know anything about your credibility Don but I have seen some nice paintjobs you've produced. That's all that really matters here.
Like yourself I invite you to check out my website, what is on my vending tables, what I take to shows and Conventions and the Tutorials I have online.

CadillacPat

Edited by Casey, 12 October 2012 - 02:16 PM.


#14 LoneWolf15

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:39 PM

Cato ,

My answer is an educated guess here , I'd say a minimum of a week , here's why ! You are using an unknown with the method . The biggest complaint about enamels is the flashout time involved , especially with the spray cans which is what you are using .

If you were using the bottles cut with the cheap laquer thinner , 2 to 3 days ! As for mixing the clear in with your color coat , yes , you can .
However , you need to be cautious here if it is a metallic or pearl color . A bit too much , and you'll suffer color slumps in the finish .

If you follow the steps in the DVD to the letter , I can guarantee success . Any variation from the steps or products that I use is going to become a guess at best .

#15 LoneWolf15

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:20 PM

Cato ,

My answer is an educated guess here , I'd say a minimum of a week , here's why ! You are using an unknown with the method . The biggest complaint about enamels is the flashout time involved , especially with the spray cans which is what you are using .

If you were using the bottles cut with the cheap laquer thinner , 2 to 3 days ! As for mixing the clear in with your color coat , yes , you can .
However , you need to be cautious here if it is a metallic or pearl color . A bit too much , and you'll suffer color slumps in the finish .

If you follow the steps in the DVD to the letter , I can guarantee success . Any variation from the steps or products that I use is going to become a ###### shoot at best .


#16 Dr. Cranky

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:36 PM

Like most folks coming back to the hobby, I started with enamels thinned with mineral spirits and then it would be forever to wait for the stuff to cure, and 15 days later . . . disaster time and again, so I moved on to other paints and systems, and then I got back into the enamels after getting Donn's DVD, watching it a dozen or more times, and then I followed the system described in the DVD and started getting great results right away, so much so that I am an enamel (cut with cheap lacquer) convert.

I love the finish it produces and having to wait the 3 days to see the stuff lay down tight on the body with an amazing gloss was good enough for me. Is good enough for me.

#17 Cato

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:53 AM

Thanks Donn. I hear you about adding clear. Will test first.

#18 greymack

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:32 AM

Geez some of you guys worry to much.So for you folks that are smarty pants what do you use to thin down enamel paints?

#19 Bluemiles22

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:42 AM

Cato I posted some pictures in the enamels win thread of colors mixed with clear. I used one part paint one part clear and one part thinner and got pretty good results. You can play around with different color base coats also, so far I've only done black, gold, and silver and those were lacquers. Try the metalizer or tamiya lacquers, I tried the testors lacquer for the gold but wasn't too crazy about it.

#20 plowboy

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:55 AM

In a dehydrator or even your "oven" should be dry in 24 hours ...with 10 to 15 mist coats....


Ten to fifteen mist coats??? Seriously?? That would bury every detail on a body,not to mention giving it the "dipped in syrup" look. No way I would put that much paint on a model. Even with laquer, the most I will spray on a body is six coats and that's including the clear coats. You don't have to pile the paint on to get a good shine.