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How clear is "clear"?


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#1 Cato

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:39 AM

I offer this as a point of information only-not criticism.
The following was decanted from a fresh can of Model Master Enamel Top Coat #2936.
It is shot in natural room light against a white backdrop. Gassed-out and stored in a clear glass bottle.
Now I know there are a lot of different clears in lacquer, enamel and acrylic. Many are called 'water clear'. This one is not.
I'm using it on a dark color but would not atop whites or yellows. Surely it adds tint.
See for yourself:
Posted Image

#2 Monty

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:29 AM

No offense, but this isn't exactly breaking news. Testors' original (lacquer) clear was known for making white paint look more like ivory, and apparently they haven't improved anything since.

With a little bit of searching you should be able to find some threads about which clears work best over various paints.

One of our now-banned members had a post a couple years ago regarding some kind of clear he'd found at Hobby Lobby that allegedly worked over overything, but unfortunately banned members' posts disappear when they do.

#3 Cato

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:50 AM

I didn't imply this was breaking news-just offered a visual example of the material itself.
Sorry if I've posted the obvious.
One could simply shoot Future and have no worry.

#4 Monty

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:19 AM

Didn't mean to harsh your buzz, I just assumed that this was common knowledge by now. I happened to learn about it over a decade ago when my local hobby shop offered bottles of Testors "clear" for airbrushers. That stuff looked like the amber fluid you find prehistoric bugs trapped in, and I recall feeling disappointed that a company like Testors couldn't do better.

Future has a number of adherents on here as well as the occasional detractor. Sounds like it's tricky to airbrush and I can't fathom trying to put it on with a brush, but several others have learned to apply it perfectly.

I'll see if I can't track down the name of the Hobby Lobby stuff that's supposed to be very clear and work with any paint.

#5 Cato

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:44 AM

I'll see if I can't track down the name of the Hobby Lobby stuff that's supposed to be very clear and work with any paint.

That would be helpful and cool.

#6 Chief Joseph

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:09 AM

Ya'll may be thinking about JW Etc Varnish. I use it for some clearcoating on non-auto models and it works very well.

#7 plowboy

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:34 AM

Also, it seems like the older Testors clear enamel gets, the more it yellows. I pulled an older build off the shelf a few days ago and was kinda surprised at how much it had yellowed. I had sprayed it over Boyd's Pacific Blue and even over that color, the yellowing was still noticeable. I also made the mistake of spraying it over white that now looks more like Wimbledon White.

So far, I've had no yellowing at all with Tamiya TS-13. The oldest build I have with it over white is around three years old. But, it is still as clear as the day I shot it on so far.

I don't like using Future as a clear coat on bodies. I tried it three times and gave up on it. Only one attempt looked decent. But for some reason,it has spider web cracks that appear and disappear :huh: on the hood,top and trunk. I surely wouldn't trust it over white. The bottle I have has yellowed slightly inside the bottle.

#8 CadillacPat

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:43 AM

Didn't mean to harsh your buzz,


Harsh Your Buzz, Man, haven't heard that for awhile.
What ever happened to Pauly Shore????????? Heyyy Buuuuuuuuddddddy!!!!!

CadillacPat

#9 Monty

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 11:23 AM

Harsh Your Buzz, Man, haven't heard that for awhile.
What ever happened to Pauly Shore????????? Heyyy Buuuuuuuuddddddy!!!!!

CadillacPat


Terrible choice of words on my part. In all actuality, I'm the furthest thing from that type of person you'll ever meet. I should've just told Cato I wasn't intentionally trying to whizz all over his thread.

That said, I know you currently only use real HOK paints, but do you recall ever using any clear that worked well over enamels and lacquers?

And Pauly Shore should apologize to the universe just for being Pauly Shore.

#10 Cato

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 11:44 AM

Terrible choice of words on my part. In all actuality, I'm the furthest thing from that type of person you'll ever meet. I should've just told Cato I wasn't intentionally trying to whizz all over his thread.

And Pauly Shore should apologize to the universe just for being Pauly Shore.

Moi aussie. We cool Dude... :lol:

#11 CadillacPat

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:44 PM

Terrible choice of words on my part. In all actuality, I'm the furthest thing from that type of person you'll ever meet. I should've just told Cato I wasn't intentionally trying to whizz all over his thread.
Cmon Monty, you used it so naturally there must be just a little bit of Pauly in there somewhere.
I liked it, and it was actually the best and most polite interruption I have seen here recently.

That said, I know you currently only use real HOK paints, but do you recall ever using any clear that worked well over enamels and lacquers?
Well, many will work (shelf Aerosols) as far as laying down, but over time they all yellowed.
In the DieCast Customizing world people who Rattlecan use a lot of Krylon Triple Thick Clear and say they like it.
Like you said, I found a product that always works and never disappoints, HOK Urethane Clear, and for those who want to save and get the same results,
Try this Clear also by Valspar,

Posted Image

With this Reducer and Catalyst,

Posted Image



CadillacPat

#12 sportandmiah

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 06:54 AM

Cadillacpat, how do you keep your activator from hardening? How much did the above pictured cost?

#13 CadillacPat

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:37 PM

Cadillacpat, how do you keep your activator from hardening?

I buy a Quart ( you can buy Catalyst in smaller Pints) and pour 6 ounces or so into a smaller container.
This way I'm only opening and closing the smaller amount and the larger amount remains sealed.
I use empty BarBeCue Sauce bottles for this,
Here's an old thread about Paint Bottles,

Paint Storage


I purchase most of my House Of Kolor paints by the Gallon or Quart.
Rather than constantly reopening the large containers I came upon this method to store my paints for easy daily use.

I needed containers that were cheap and easy to pour from.
These soft, squeezable small mouthed plastic bottles pictured here work perfect for me.
They consist of the type plastic that is not reactive to solvents so any type paint or related solvent based products can be stored in them.

I fill them with paint directly from the can for daily mixing and some of the bottles contain reduced paint of colors that I use frequently.

HOK Urethane Clear, 311 Reducer, Catalysts (both Clear and Candy Activator), InterCoat Clear, Lacquer Thinner, Primer and a variety of Basecoats.

The small mouth makes for easy pouring for mixing or even for transferring mixed paints into a 1/4oz. paintcup.
The same small mouth also allows for less exposure to the air when opened.

Pure strength paints or premixed, these lightweight smaller containers make for easy handling resulting in less mess and waste.

If you have a project that you'll be painting all day these bottles are perfect for use as a mixing container.

I Barbecue or Grill frequently, at least twice or three times a week and throwing away so many Barbecue and Ketchup bottles made me wonder if they couldn't be put to use.
There had to be a better cheaper way to store paints than spending money on glass bottles from the Container Store.
It turned out that these type Polyethylene or Polypropylene low-density plastics were non reactive to solvents.

Even if you dump the sauce within, these proucts routinely go on sale at Food Stores for as low as 44 cents, usually 66 cents, making for a very cheap buy.

Posted Image

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Just wash the threads of the Cap and Bottle thoroughly.
Fill half way with water, shake, shake, shake, repeat, repeat, then add a couple of drops of dishsoap, fill, shake, rinse, rinse, rinse and let dry.
Run hot water over the labels, remove them and using a permanent marker indicate what you've stored in the container.
Or make your own label.
If premixing or if filling with Clear or Catalyst, mark the date filled.

I do a whole lot of paint mixing and paint transfering, so while I don't paint full size cars these containers hold just the right amounts of paint for me.
They're fine if you're doing Artwork or anything smaller than a car or large motorcycle parts.

They are cheap enough that by the time you have emptied the container you can just toss it and use a fresh one.



How much did the above pictured cost?

Prices can easily be found using Search on Google,

Gallon Clear is $55
Quart Catalyst is $37
Quart Medium Reducer 172 is $16



CadillacPat

#14 martinfan5

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:49 PM

$108 for all that, how long, or better question, how many bodys can you clear coat ?, for 1/24th/25th scale

#15 CadillacPat

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 03:21 PM

$108 for all that, how long, or better question, how many bodys can you clear coat ?, for 1/24th/25th scale


That's not something that can be accurately predicted just by the total amount of ounces.
Martin I suggest you add up the amounts of Clear, Catalyst and Reducer that it normally takes you to Clear a 1/24 and divide it into the total ounces of the Gallon and a half of products pictured in my reply.
Those of us that AirBrush all do it slightly differently.

Stored properly and transferred to smaller containers for daily use, these products can haved a very long shelf life, even years of use.

CadillacPat

#16 martinfan5

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 03:25 PM

I was just curious if its something that is worth while in the longer run with the high upfront cost, but I am sure it would be

#17 CadillacPat

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 03:43 PM

I was just curious if its something that is worth while in the longer run with the high upfront cost, but I am sure it would be


"Worthwhile" would depend on the Builder's dedication to the quality of his finished project.
The good thing about using high quality products is they cost so little for the individual use.
The "longer run" for me is to build the best I can.

Urethane Clearcoats are always superior so that makes it worthwhile for me.

For you guys that are AirBrushing you can buy the above products in Quarts and Pints which are probably more correct amounts to go along with how often you Build.

Or, do as I did and Network with other Customizers or Builders.
Put a deal together with a few other Customizers and split everything up.
Surely anyone can find 4 or 5 other people to put a deal together with.
Everything goes ground shipping.
Done deal.


CadillacPat

Edited by CadillacPat, 27 October 2012 - 04:01 PM.


#18 Guest_G Holding_*

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 04:00 AM

$108 for all that, how long, or better question, how many bodys can you clear coat ?, for 1/24th/25th scale


Do not forget your PPE. Suit, gloves, and respirator..change you cartridges every 6mos or as needed. These paints are deadly without proper safety equipment.

#19 Mr Dedo

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:16 AM

if the finished paint is enamel i could understand the use of an enamel seal coat
have you tried working with lacquer sprays from testor, the clear krylon sprays
and/or omni two part urethanes through an air brush

#20 Chas SCR

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:43 AM

I do the close to the same as Cad does, But I buy mine in quart size and this last up to a year or better ( I change mine out at the year date no matter what) This is to keep it fresh and I normaly have about 16oz or so left. For keeping the Catl fresh not sure how they package there stuff but the new one from DuPont has a two style cap that does not let the air build up get in side to ruin it.

I use Dupont 7900 with the 4600 activator and both together cost $79, Or you can stay with the 7900 with the 7900 Act for $108 or go cheeper and have the 4600 nason all for $36 and that is a Quart size of each.