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I finally understand my parent's frustration!


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#21 southpier

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

sleep with his mom; that'll fix him!



#22 plowboy

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

Boy, I can see this is going to go off the rails quick, but I never NEVER condone 'physical discipline' (ie. hitting), with children. Instead of teaching a child why an action is inappropriate or just plain wrong so that the child can THINK THROUGH actions before committing them and apply a system of personal responsibility and logic to behavior, all it teaches is that if you misbehave and are caught, you get hit. Not the same thing at all, and a large part of what's wrong with society today. IMHO

 

Physical discipline produces adults who conduct themselves based on fear of consequences, rather than out of self-respect, respect for others and a sense of ethics and morality.

 

I disagree completely. I'm strong believer in the old addage "spare the rod, spoil the child". I don't believe in using the rod,but my hand does just fine on a rear end. My twenty three year old daughter has told me several times that she was glad that I spanked her when she needed it. Especially now that she sees how some of her friends turned out that never got a spanking in their life. I feel the same towards my parents. If I had known that all I would ever get was talked to, it's untelling what I would have gotten into or become. I never got a whipping at home (or school) that I didn't deserve and neither have either of my children. I've seen first hand within my family what good talking to a child rather than spanking it does.

 

That is what's wrong with a lot of (not all) the younger generation/kids today. They've never received any type of punishment for their actions and know they never will. They know that they can do anything they want and all that will happen to them is they will get a long conversation out of it that will, at most, interrupt their social media time. Afterwards, they'll have a good laugh about it with their friends on Facebook or Twitter.

 

A perfect case in point is two of my nieces that are siblings. The first got spankings. By the time the second came around and was a toddler,my sister decided it was "wrong according to Dr. Spock" to spank them. She would threaten it often, but never do it. The first rarely got into any kind of trouble and never got arrested. She has a husband,three kids, a job and a nice home and is one of greatest persons you'll ever meet.

 

The second one is a drug addict, a thief, a liar and constantly in and out of jail. She's twenty seven years old and still lives with my sister and brother-in-law when she isn't in jail. She has broken into their house and cleaned them out twice on the one occasion she wasn't allowed to live with them. If you added all of the days she has worked in her entire life, it still wouldn't amount to a year's time. I could write a book on the low life things she's done in her lifetime. The reason she is the way she is is that at a young age, she quickly learned that there would be no consequences for anything she did. All mommy would do was talk to her and tell her why it was wrong. Yeah, that worked out great didn't it? :rolleyes:  Unruly disrespectful children grow up to be unruly disrespectful adults. I can't tolerate either.



#23 diymirage

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:03 PM

since we are on the subject my rule of thumb with my son is always "the pain of the punishment must be greater then the joy of the tresspass"

sometimes that means a time out is in place (you wouldnt believe how terrible it can be for a kid to have to sit still and face the wall when all her want to do is play)

but sometimes that does mean harder actions are called for



#24 rel14

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:15 PM

Welcome to the world of being a parent, your fun has just started,, Remember the Mothers curse,,,,,(( I hope you have kids just like you..))) the curse really works,,,  My God bless you with lots of patents,,,      



#25 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:50 PM

I have a great deal to say on the subject of physical violence being used to control children, but I'm going to respectfully withdraw from this thread before I say things that some will find inflammatory or highly objectionable. This is not the place to debate the relative merits of differing philosophies of child-rearing, but children ARE entirely capable of learning by being reasoned with, talked to, and by example.

 

I do have a parting comment, however. If you train an animal by striking it, you end up with an animal that is hand-shy and cowers, rather than an animal that is your friend and willingly obeys your wishes. Why do so many intelligent animal trainers agree on this, but so many parents somehow still think hitting children makes them better people?



#26 cobraman

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

I can only speak for myself but I was spanked as a child and in fact got the belt a few times. What it taught me was to weigh what I was doing against getting caught. More than once this kept me on the straight and narrow. As an adult I still loved my father and miss him very much. As a parent with only one child ( grown up now ) I had never laid hand on her nor had my wife ( her mother ).  I believe I turned out pretty good for the most part. I do not advocate striking a child but by the same token if a little swat on the butt may remind a child not to run out into the street I can't say that's a bad thing.  I guess we all have to decide that for ourselves. To the question, I agree getting him a little tool set of his own sounds like the way to go.



#27 diymirage

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

 
I do have a parting comment, however. If you train an animal by striking it, you end up with an animal that is hand-shy and cowers, rather than an animal that is your friend and willingly obeys your wishes. Why do so many intelligent animal trainers agree on this, but so many parents somehow still think hitting children makes them better people?


Your reasoning makes perfect sence IF you are willing to argue your child is equal to an animal and not capable of making the connetion between bad deed and punishment.
A perfect example is my own son
When he is behaving he knows he will only get affection from my hands but when he misbehaves he will recieve punishment
Sometimes i walk into his room not sure if he is in need of punishment but the way he acts when i walk in always gives him away


#28 1930fordpickup

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

First find out what works to make him listen to you. Those video games that he can not find will drive him crazy also.

Her child her problem only works until it cost you money. Lock that box , it only took my dad 20 years to figure that out. 

Yes buy him some tools and make sure he puts them back also. Make a spot for each tool so that he knows if they are missing. 

Do not worry about making a mistake and if you do tell him you are sorry. He might pickup on that .



#29 mikemodeler

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:42 PM

While not advocating beatings, the occasional swat on the hand or back side does wonders in reminding children that some behaviors are not acceptable. When my children were smaller, if they started talking back, a quick taste of vinegar usually solved the problem! Acting up and throwing a tantrum got a swat on the butt and being sent to their room. Today it is more like revoking electronics as they both look me in the eye!

 

Bottom line- kids need to know what respect is and how to behave and the best way is by example. If I am respectful towards them and other family members, then they typically follow my lead.

 

Back to the original question- decide what an appropriate punishment should be- find or replace the tool in question or add some chores to his day.



#30 Aaronw

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

All I can say is good luck. Children are different, what works for one does not work for another. Take the time and have some patience to try and figure out what works on this kid.

 

Personally I like the old make them figure it out for themselves thing. You know offer to set up his new tree fort (or what ever) then seem puzzled and disappointed that you can't build it for him BECAUSE YOUR HAMMER IS MISSING!!!!



#31 slusher

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

He more the likely has had no one to teach him value of anything. Buy a lock and tell him never to help himself without asking so you can help him....



#32 MachinistMark

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:26 PM

If it were my snap on tools? He'd pe out on his hands and knees with a spoon digging through said snow bank to fund them. After that tool box would be under lock and key.

#33 XJ6

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

If it were my snap on tools? He'd pe out on his hands and knees with a spoon digging through said snow bank to fund them. After that tool box would be under lock and key.

So what if it was not a Snap-on tool then what ??



#34 mnwildpunk

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:37 PM

Ok I guess I should of explained the discipline area a bit more he is a well behaved 8 year old. She does her job of parenting very well. Beau's father died of brain cancer when he was I believe 10 months old. I have known beau since birth. Her and I have been dating seven years now and I'm going to propose on chirstmas eve. The boy knows about his father and what a good guy he was. Beau one day just started calling me dad and at first I was very uncomfortable with it being his dad was a friend. I sat down and talked with him about the fact I didn't think I should be called dad but he continued anyway. Then one day his mother pointed out I was the only male figure in his life. Anyway back to the main point which all of that is tied together with the fact it's already been discussed that I'm going to adopt him once her and I are married. So that is how she think I should start taking up I a disciplinarian role more so then I am. Don't get me wrong she is always going to be the main enforcer. first off everyone had good advice. This is how we decided to handle it. He spend a lot of time at grandma and grandpas house and they spoil him by giving him money for chores he does and lets just say guys in the teamsters and unions don't paid as well as this kid. So first he is going shopping with me to get a new breaker bar which he has to pay for with his money so he will feel the hurt of tool cost. Granted I'm not making him buy me another snap-on. Also he hasn't noticed just yet but two of his favorite toys are in my trunk. When he asks about them I'm going to tell him I wanted to play with them and lost em'. I know that would've gotten my attention at his age. I got smarter also because I left my tool box open with this grand idea he could use them anytime he wants for his skateboards and bikes. Now there is a locked tool box instead of being opened. if he wants a tool he has to come to me first and ask. Then we fill out the checkout list that I made and he can't get another tool only until the one that is checked out is returned.
I'm pretty proud of this idea. I know it's a heck of a lot better then the way I used to get the tar knocked out of me with the belt, spoon or whatever object was within arms reach lol. :D


#35 Aaronw

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:55 PM

 Then we fill out the checkout list that I made and he can't get another tool only until the one that is checked out is returned.

 

 

If that works out have him come see me in 10 years. Half the adults who have worked for me can't figure out put it back when you are done. :lol:



#36 hooterville75

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:33 PM

Boy, I can see this is going to go off the rails quick, but I never NEVER condone 'physical discipline' (ie. hitting), with children. Instead of teaching a child why an action is inappropriate or just plain wrong so that the child can THINK THROUGH actions before committing them and apply a system of personal responsibility and logic to behavior, all it teaches is that if you misbehave and are caught, you get hit. Not the same thing at all, and a large part of what's wrong with society today. IMHO

 

Physical discipline produces adults who conduct themselves based on fear of consequences, rather than out of self-respect, respect for others and a sense of ethics and morality.

Your totally right and I agree to a point ten years ago.  Try that today, get reported and your kids are being taken from you in a minute.  Thats whats wrong with todays society they are pampered way too much and lack discipline.  Back when I was growing up if I did wrong rest assured I wouldnt do it again.  I got A$$ whippens, beltings, etc.  

 

Today parents are signing notes being sent home from school that the school cant paddle there children.  When I was in high school if I got a paddeling in school when I got home I was getting it twice as hard.  The times have changed and so has the method of "discipline".  Its a shame but such is the way of life these days.  Shove a electronic game consule or electronic of some type in front of them and let them have what they want.

 

When I grew up we were outside playing ball or riding motor bikes working on cars etc.  Thats a thing of the past.  It kind of reminds me of when I played youth recreational sports.  We ran our buts off.  We were conditioned, we were taught the fundamentals.  We had a winning team.  I started coaching my daughters soccer team when she was old enough to play.  Coached for five years.  We ran, we did conditioning drills.  We worked on fundamentals and had a winning team to the point this group of kids only lost four games in five years.  Parents started complaining to me.  I said listen, this is my team I coach the team if you dont like how its run you come coach the team.  Parents went to our board and complained with the director coming to me saying things had to change.  I refused to change anything so I stepped down.  The team started losing so parents were then coming to me you need to come back these kids are losing all the time.  I said nope, Im obviously too old schooled for you so if things cant be my way I have no interest.  

 

You just cant do things the way we did twenty years ago.  Such a shame but its the way of life these days.  



#37 MachinistMark

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:59 AM

So what if it was not a Snap-on tool then what ??


There's other kinds?

#38 Steven Zimmerman

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:32 AM

My kids grew up fine, knowing that if they used a tool they had to put it back. And I had all the tools to do body work, rebuild engines, paint guns, plus all the tools you need to build a house. My kids are grown and moved out on their own...My problem ?....gettin my WIFE to put them back. I have 5 of those nice 25 foot tape measures, and a place for each- but go to use one, and i have to hunt everywhere! Thought I had a solution, bought her her own toolbox and tools to keep under the kitchen sink....yeah....RIGHT ! If i ask her where she put a tool I KNOW she used, she gets that bewildered innocent look on her face, "I never used it...."

#39 charlie8575

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:26 AM

Speaking after all my time in teaching, there have been a lot of really super ideas here.

 

While we might debate the merits and demerits of physical punishment (within limits, I can see its effectiveness myself), I think the incentive/disincentive model can work if it's used well and consistently from situation to situation.

 

I like Dave's solution- reimbursement and a sign-out list. I think those are a great idea to teach responsibility and respect of property.

 

I also agree- a lock and key on the box is a good idea. So might be getting him a basic set of relatively inexpensive tools, although I would use caution as cheap tools can be very dangerous. I received a very sobering lesson on that my senior year in high school when my woods teacher- one of the nicest people I've ever known and a great teacher, almost lost his eye to a crummy screwdriver that snapped. I'd stick with a decent brand of tools, such as Craftsman or Stanley. 3-4 screwdrivers, a couple of adjustable wrenches, a couple of pliers and a small hammer should be enough to get him moving.

 

However, forcing an understanding of accountability are key. All the punishment in the world- physical, mental, emotional, financial, will do a child no good if there's no lesson learned in the end and no tangible way of making account of their actions. When I've had to go all Nazi on my junior high kids (which, in today's environment of everyone wins and overly permissive parenting is far too frequent for my tastes,) I make VERY sure they understand what they did, why I adjudicated the matter in the manner I did, and what I expect them to learn from it. From kicking a kid out of class to a reflective paper to penalizing everyone ten points if someone is caught cheating, they know what they did and why things are happening.

 

I think Dave, you've taught your lesson, and I hope it does stick.

 

Now...grab the snow-shovel and make him start digging. :lol:

 

Charlie Larkin