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Bare Metal Foil - - - Wrinkles......!


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#1 Ramfins59

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

Back in the early 90's when I rediscovered this hobby I also discovered Bare Metal Foil which I thought at the time (and still do) that it is one of the best things to come out for hobbyists to use on their models.  No more trying to paint chrome trim with silver paint, or trying to glue on aluminum foil.  I remember that back then and for a few years after, that the foil came with a cardboard sheet that prevented the foil from bending, twisting, creasing or getting wrinkled.  There was hardly any waste on a sheet other than the excess foil that was trimmed from the model you were using it on.

 

Now you buy a sheet in an envelope and the only "protection" is the flimsy backing paper and wax paper like cover sheet.  I can't tell you how much BMF is unusable because of all the wrinkles and crinkles all over the sheet.  It tears at those wrinkles when you try to cut a strip that has a wrinkle in it.  Cutting around the wrinkles just causes so much unusable waste.  While BMF is not terribly expensive, for the price we pay for it at either model shows or at your LHS we shouldn't have to pay for sometimes almost a third of a sheet that is unusable.

 

Thankfully BMF seems to have fixed the crappy adhesive problems of a few years ago.  The Gold and Black foils are terrible and are a waste of money.

 

I'm sure that eliminating the piece of cardboard was probably a "cost cutting" decision, but it really did more harm than good...... Good for them because we have to go buy MORE sheets to make up for all the unusable stuff we have to throw away.

 

OK I feel much better now that I've vented.  I've been foiling the '58 Ford I'm building and when I opened up a brand new sheet that I bought at last years NNL East I was PO'd at all the GD wrinkles......!!!!!!

 

Back to the bench.

 



#2 farmer1

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

Been there done that, I have a full sheet that is so wrinkled its only good for little pieces, got a new one not too long ago at the LHS, which for me is 50 miles, and it is nice and smooth but it won't stick to anything !! the adhesive just isn't there, very frustrating. :angry:

 

I have some old sheets probably 15 or so years old with a little left on them and they still work better than the new stuff, although I will say the new is a little shinier.

 

I am going to contact them and try their customer service on this recent sheet that just isn't sticky and I'll let you know how I make out.

 

Randy



#3 Blown03SVT

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:59 PM

...still better than that lousy detail master foil. That sucks sucks! I wish they would put the card board back in to keep the foil intact.



#4 Gluhead

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:24 PM

I've had all the bmf woes that everyone else has had as well. I think a lot of it is shelf life with the more recent stuff. I've gotten my last few sheets from Scale Dreams, and they've been in great condition. Scale Dreams has the best shipping rates that I've been able to find, so I suspect that helps move it out the door fast enough that they're able to keep their stock pretty fresh.

 

My only minor gripe with the stuff now, is the adhesive that they use has a slight lumpiness to it. It doesn't show itself much on fine trim, but on large pieces it can become more obvious. Fortunately, I've gotten the hang of using alclad, so if I get a trim piece that can't be coaxed into submission, I can always spray it.



#5 Tom Geiger

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

I too thought BMF was the miracle product when I found it 24 years ago. Back then it went on well and I could do no wrong with it.  I've noticed changes in the product and quality over the years.  I have a hunch that it's not a product that's purposely made, but a product that is made for another purpose that the BMF folks buy, and that they're suppliers have changed over the years.

 

I also noticed the wrinkling in the past few years and I don't think that's due to the absence of cardboard since the sheet and the package is otherwise undamaged.  It almost looks like a wrinkle caused by the sheets coming off a long roll.

 

As far as adhesive, it may have to do with age although I'm currently using a pack (with wrinkles) that I've had several years. You don't know how long it's sat at the hobby shop, distributor etc.  Let's just say I recently bought a tube of Green Putty from a local hobby shop that was pretty much dried out in the unopened tube!



#6 slusher

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

If l had to use detail mast foil again l would do without. the last bmf sheet l bought was wrinkled in the middle...



#7 Draggon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

I got my first sheet from the LHS. Wrinkles. After that I buy direct, not had any problems yet! When I used the first "direct buy" sheet, it was like "holy carp, I can foil!"



#8 Lunajammer

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

 I think a lot of it is shelf life with the more recent stuff. 

 

I'd have to agree with that. My old stuff crinkles more over the years. It seems reasonable the glue will change or dry over time and shrink, taking the delicate foil with it. That doesn't explain crinkles in new products but I'm always leery of the shelf time at hobby shops.



#9 plowboy

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:50 PM

If I can't hold it my hands and inspect it beforehand, I buy it directly from the BMF company. I've never got a bad sheet buying direct.



#10 JM485

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

I haven't gotten a bad sheet yet, but I am only on my second one.  Just as a quick tip with this stuff, since it is just really thin aluminum, it can be polished with aluminum polish.  I just set the sheet on a flat, hard surface and use Mothers mag and aluminum polish and it doubles the shine like you wouldn't believe.



#11 rmvw guy

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:13 PM

No wonder I'm having so much trouble, the last batch I purchased was Detail Master.  The wrinkles are a problem for sure.  All I can use it for, with any success is for little pieces. Actually, I have had an on going battle with BMF since the beginning.  I usually revert back to using silver paint or a silver pen.  



#12 Blown03SVT

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:26 PM

No wonder I'm having so much trouble, the last batch I purchased was Detail Master.  The wrinkles are a problem for sure.  All I can use it for, with any success is for little pieces. Actually, I have had an on going battle with BMF since the beginning.  I usually revert back to using silver paint or a silver pen.  


BMF is WAY better than the DM stuff. BMF can actually take a little prodding to get it to conform. It seems to be just a touch thicker than DM. I have some older BMF that still works fairly well, the adhesive still grabs. The new stuff doesn't grab as much but like I said compared to DM it's great.

#13 mr68gts

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:08 PM

i bought 2 sheets about 2 years ago directly from Bare Metal Foil and they were perfect. I've stored them flat and in the envelope they came in and now the unused sheet is wrinkled to BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH. The partially used one is still sort of usable. I'd say it's how it's stored but I've been carefull with how I stored it and it still happened. So my next conclusion in the temperature changes. My model room has a fairly good swing in temps and that may be why it did it. I do keep a heater in there so keep it at or warmer than 65 but it may still be too much of a change.

 

Paul



#14 Don Wheeler

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

I think the wrinkles are caused by changes in humidity.  The paper backing expands and contracts, and the aluminum foil can't keep up.  I've had it wrinkle in the drawer.  The last sheet I bought from my local hobby shop is smooth.  When I got it home I immediately put it in a zip top plastic bag.  So far, so good.

 

Don



#15 jbwelda

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:39 PM

I really used to hate trying to BMF trim, because of some of the issues mentioned here, but then somehow i heard mentioned that DM stuff was better (this was a long time ago), so i bought some of that to try. i thought it was nice and especially it was thin, but it always twisted when you pulled it off the backing. it was pretty frustrating trying to keep a long piece from folding back on itself and breaking. but if you got it down and trimmed it really looked good, nice and thin and shiny.

 

then i bought another sheet of real BMF and what a difference! its actually pretty easy to use and its increased thickness makes it not at all as delicate as the DM was. one thing i noticed though, aside from the wrinkles and it rarely gets humid here, this sheet was wrinkled from the get go, was that the adhesive was missing on the outer 1/4 to 1/2 inch all around the edge of the sheet. if i used the inner pieces i didnt have a problem with adhesion, but if i used the outer rim, which was a natural thing to do, adhesion would be sketchy or totally absent.

 

as noted above these problems seemed to come and go almost with lot numbers at one point; i never thought of it but it does make sense that BMF buys the stuff and repackages it rather than having it manufactured for them directly. that would explain inability to supply a consistent product being out of their control. as little foiling as i do, a sheet, even with a bunch of wrinkles, lasts me for a decade practically.



#16 TooOld

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:53 AM

I keep it laying flat in the envelope in my refrigerator .  I have one sheet of BMF that is almost 2 years old and it works just like it was new .  It had a few wrinkles when I bought it but I've found that they can be smoothed out when applying the BMF and they completely dissappear !  Of course I only do this if I really have to .



#17 jaydar

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:27 AM

My problem is the adhesive. It is pretty weak.

BTW, thanks for the tip about the refrigerator. I will put in there next to the Cyano.

joe.

#18 plowboy

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

I've heard about putting foil in the fridge to keep it fresh for years now, but never have tried it. The reason I haven't is that it seems to me that the vast temperature difference between room temperature and a fridge temperature would cause the foil to crack more so from expanding and contracting. So far, I haven't had a problem with keeping it at room temperature and flat.