Two hobbies, two demographics. A view from the middle

[Rob Hall]

The model building hobby is losing generations of kids each year, mostly because models are "out of sight, and out of mind".

That's also because the primary focus of Round 2, Revell and Moiebus is the older builder....as long as they focus on subjects that appeal primarily to an older crowd, they aren't going to gain younger builders...a topic that has already been hashed over ad infinitium. Only a small niche of younger builders are going to be interested in subjects their grandparents would have been interested in.

[sjordan2]

I haven't kept up with it, but I think a big blow to the hobby happened when models were removed, or drastically reduced, at Toys R Us, a natural source for the craft.

[Jeff Johnston]

Interesting subject. These are good posts...

I can see both sides. Ultimately I want ot build as many cool models until I die and then whatever happens happens.

[Jeff Johnston]

Here's another question to think about: When (if) a young kid is attracted to model building, do you think the attraction is due more to the subject matter available, or is it the process of building a model that's more of a factor? IMO, a person is going to be drawn into the hobby more because he enjoys the process of building, rather than the specific subject matter. In other words, I don't necessarily think manufacturers have to put out certain subjects to appeal to younger builders. Maybe I'm wrong, but my gut feeling is that it's the process, not the product, that is the reason a person would get into the hobby.

I agree with that. If you like to work with your hands and you like cars maybe you'll like building models. My son loves cars and has no interest in building models. So I agree its the building process and the subject, not just the subject.

[Greg Myers]

Without new customer to support the companies, the hobby might die before you and I do.

I have seen this in the Stamp collecting hobby. It is a real consideration.

[martinfan5]

Here's another question to think about: When (if) a young kid is attracted to model building, do you think the attraction is due more to the subject matter available, or is it the process of building a model that's more of a factor? IMO, a person is going to be drawn into the hobby more because he enjoys the process of building, rather than the specific subject matter. In other words, I don't necessarily think manufacturers have to put out certain subjects to appeal to younger builders. Maybe I'm wrong, but my gut feeling is that it's the process, not the product, that is the reason a person would get into the hobby.

I agree with that. If you like to work with your hands and you like cars maybe you'll like building models. My son loves cars and has no interest in building models. So I agree its the building process and the subject, not just the subject.

I 100% disagree with both, I love cars, I love building models of cars that I like, I am not going to enjoy building something I have little to no interest in, part, or most of my enjoyment comes from building subjects that I have interest in building. I don't watch TV shows, or watch movies I don't like just to be able to do it, I don't play video games I have no interest in just to be able to play video games, I don't listen to music that I don't like, just to be able to listen to music, you get my point, and to think that younger generations are going to build to something that they don't like, is just crazy, have you seen the younger generations ?, the last thing I see them doing is wanting to build a model, more so something that is 70 years or more older then them.

Sure, there are exceptions to that, I am 100% sure there is a small percentage of kids out there would, but that is because they either have a dad or grandad that is building models.

But, what do I know, I could be completely wrong at the same time, as long as the hobby stays alive during the rest of my life time, I dont care what happens, or who is building at what age , as long as the Japanese company's stay in business, then I will have some kits to build of current subjects

Edited May 14, 2013 by martinfan5

[Greg Myers]

I haven't kept up with it, but I think a big blow to the hobby happened when models were removed, or drastically reduced, at Toys R Us, a natural source for the craft.

That and their removal from other big box stores.

The casual chance discovery of a young builder or the Mom, Grandparent (or other relative) or someone else buying for a birthday party etc.

[bbowser]

It's not just models but working with your hands in general. With the reduction of music, art, and shop classes in schools and ever more reliance on computers (of any type) to do your thinking and interacting I see an alarming trend in the coming generations. Modeling is as much about problem solving, patience, and discipline as the end product, be it plane, train, or automobile. Young people need those skills and I'm afraid they're not getting them. End rant.

[Tom Geiger]

There have been people building models of their transportation since the Roman chariots, so I don't see car model building dying all together. Recently we had a fellow contact us through the NNL East website, asking for a Tuner Class. It was too late for this year, but at the show I learned that he and his friends, guys in their 20s, had started their own model car club. These are nice respectful guys you'd want in the hobby. We started to think that we need to invite younger builders into our fraternity on their terms. So I let these guys know we'd have a Tuner Class at NNL East next year, as long as they agreed to spread the word and invite more builders like themselves to the show. Now it's up to the guys at the show to accept and encourage them!

Heck, most guys in the hobby build hot rods and shiny replica stock cars. And they all put up with me and my rusty old beaters. So how far off is it to welcome guys who are passionate about their own subject into the group? You don't have to be into the subject matter to appreciate nice builds and the passion of the younger guys! In fact, we need to!

[ToyLvr]

I got kicked-off the board when I tried to post earlier today, so here we go again...

I suppose some folks think that we old geezers are selfish for trying to lure younger folks into the hobby. I don't see it that way.

I picked up the hobby from my older brother, who was into the hobby big-time back in the late 50s through mid-60s (what I refer to as the "Golden Age" of the hobby). It's been a passion of mine for nearly 50 years, and has brought great joy into my life. Why wouldn't I want to pass this along to the younger generation???

As you veteran modelers know, this is more than just a casual hobby. It involves exercising your brain in the process of planning a project, reading and following instructions, learning the use of basic hand tools, learning some basics of chemistry through the use of adhesives & paints, etc., etc. I remember reading a story where a young fellow was helped in overcoming his dyslexia by reading the instructions in his model kits. In short, young folks can learn some basic "life skills" through model building, and in some cases it even helps them in their chosen career. I also think it's great that this is a hobby where the whole family can participate if they choose to do so.

As Eric mentioned in his earlier post, I agree that it's a good thing to get the young folks to set aside their electronic gadgets for a while and do something *real*.

There are, of course, other "old school" activities such as sports, or maybe marching band for example, where we encourage our youth to participate because we know that they'll learn "life lessons" in team work, and stretching their physical limits.

While I don't think that we should force our hobby down the throats of our kids, I feel that all of the above can ultimately lead to good things for the participants, and make for a better society.

If the younger generation chooses to engage in this hobby, and by so doing encourages the kit manufacturers and aftermarket to give us more product, then it's a Win-Win for all of us.

[LOBBS]

Here's another question to think about: When (if) a young kid is attracted to model building, do you think the attraction is due more to the subject matter available, or is it the process of building a model that's more of a factor? IMO, a person is going to be drawn into the hobby more because he enjoys the process of building, rather than the specific subject matter. In other words, I don't necessarily think manufacturers have to put out certain subjects to appeal to younger builders. Maybe I'm wrong, but my gut feeling is that it's the process, not the product, that is the reason a person would get into the hobby.

Subject matter is huge with kids. With my kids, at their birthdays, I take them to the store and give them a budget. They are then free to pick anything they'd like as long as it fits into that number.

Having 4 kids, I could give countless examples of how this has played out to prove my point but for the sake of argument, I'll go with my older boys and their love of Lego sets. Lego, quite frankly, is run by geniuses of marketing. Nearly every blockbluster movie is followed shortly after with a full line of building sets. My boys, cash in hand, go in and work their budgets to the max to get as much as possible from each of these lines as they can. Being close in age and having b-days only a few weeks apart they've even been known to pool their resources to gain the bigger, more exclusive sets. Now, when they hit the aisles, there are no shortage of other styles to select from. Everything from un-themed basic brick sets to a half dozen other lines that run concurrently much less toys of a completely different nature they could pick. But, it is almost always without fail, the subject that drew them in that gets their dollar at the end of the day. If they go in and can't find a set they had in mind, I encourage them to save their money instead of wasting it on something that they don't love. There are always other stores or the internet to have another chance that it may turn up.

Edited May 14, 2013 by LOBBS

[DSHWoodworks]

I am not worried about modeling as a hobby going away in my lifetime. I feel the hobby does gain new builders just not as fast or as many as it did in the past. I do think that not having models in department stores has hurt the hobby by not exposing a would be builder to the hobby when they are just out doing their everyday shopping. That is one thing that I was surprised by when, getting back into the hobby after 20+ years and going into Kmart and not finding one model. I do have access to many "hobby" shops in my area and I'm lucky that even my local WalMart does carry kits and a few supplies. With out exposure to the hobby either by family, friends, etc... how do future builders even know about modeling?

I agree with you completely Bruce!! I am afraid that we are losing, or have already lost, generations that do not know how to make anything by hand. Shop classes are being cut right and left and even when there are classes there is not the interest there once was. I am all for progress but its sad when I think that we have lost generations that have lost that way of thinking, skills, ability, desire to build something with their own hands. If you have a chance read the book "Shop class as soul craft"

[mustang man]

I will put my two pennies in.I run a shop that has a group of the last of us baby boomers.

We are trying to teach the people that mangement brings off the street to fill opening when they come up.These young people can't even check the oil.let alone put gas in,to mow grass,let alone something like ; paint, use hand tools,hammer nails,cut wood,fix anything,Thers no way I would let them use power tools,welding-Ha-Ha !...etc,etc,etc

I try to teach them something,there's " I have to work ? ", " I have no idea on how to do that" or the "I will get dirty doing that ? ".Got a whole list of things like that.

But they sure know all about the next smart phone ,I-pad thing , X-box computer game ,etc.

What is; I wonder about WHO is going to repair/fix all these machines that make modern life so great ? What is going to happen when the power gose out ?

In the end I do not care anymore.

I realy tried to teach them.I realy did.

When it is my time to go.I will shut off the lights and lock the door.

Thank you for letting me vent.

[Blown03SVT]

i have a small rant about the big box and toys store sales... They say it killed the mom and pop hobby shop. I don't think they had nearly the impact as internet sales. Now junior might have been exposed to those brightly colored boxes in Walmart 15 years ago... He maybe might have even wanted to build one. But most parents won't sit down to spend the time with their kids, or the parents lack the basic abilities to put the kit together. SO much easier to sit them in front of a t.v. or video and blame it on electronics instead of lack of parenting and intervention. Also, lord forbid children play with HAZMAT. They might poison themselves. They might be stupid and try to sniff glue. So the politically correctness of our society makes hobbies such as this as socially unacceptable...

As for the P.C. thing. It's even infiltrated children's sports, and academics. No one is a loser... no one is left behind. Tons of life lessons lost here

...end rant

[Quick GMC]

I have to answer mustangman, the Generation after mine, or maybe even my generation is what screwed everything up!

The kids today, grew up with all of the things that you mentioned, so blame it on the Mothers and Father who gave the kids the easy way out, all of these great inventions, that came into our lives, made by very smart people, there the ones to blame, they caused jobs to be taken away and they made Robots to do men's work.

How many Cars are built by men today? how many TV's do you have, who made the Micro Wave Ovens, Smart Phones, Computers, the list goes on.

We the American people became lazy, and that my friend you can take to the Bank, so don't blame the kid that doesn't know how to gun a mower, I only had a push mower, not Gas.

Now I*'m to old to cut my lawn or shovel snow, now we live in a town home, and pay dearly for those services.

The American people, made this world that we live in, and were all to blame for not careing enough to teach our own children how to do things.

I have two Wonderful Children, both were brought up under my heavy hand, being a former Marine, it was my duty to disapline our children, but my word of mouth was enough, never was ever a problem, and their much better off then I ever was.

Let us get up off our bottoms and gather your Family, and have a old fashion sit down talk, and treat them like company and treat your company as Family, you'll all feel better.

I'm 29, I'm a craftsman. I work with my hands. There aren't alot of people on this planet that do what I do. Not because they can't, but because they don't know it's there. The biggest blow, in my opinion, to industry in general, is the removal of any mehanical application in school. I graduated high school 12 years ago. Seems like a long time, but it was 2001. NO auto shop, NO wood shop, NO drafting, NOTHING. I had to spend $18,000 to get an automotive education. It paid off, although I am no longer in that field. The people in charge are the spoiled kids that had everything handed to them. People that make the most important decisions shouldn't be leaving the house without a helmet. The sad reality is if you don't have a smart phone, email, etc. you cant keep up, at least in my field.

I honestly think I'am about 10 years behind where I should be, education and general knowledge wise. It's my own fault, I screwed around in school, but now I like to learn. Build things, etc. You can't blame it all on the parents. When someone turns into an adult, they must accept the responsibility of life, and get their act together. You can only be carried for so long before it's your fault.

I swear I spend more time screwing around with my phone and my computer than the time it takes to hand write a proposal and pick up the phone and call someone. My most productive days are the ones when I forget my phone, or throw it against a wall.

But why'd you have to drag microwave ovens into this? Hot Pockets are a life saver.

[Jeff Johnston]

I 100% disagree with both, I love cars, I love building models of cars that I like, I am not going to enjoy building something I have little to no interest in, part, or most of my enjoyment comes from building subjects that I have interest in building. I

My point was that its not the subject alone that motivates people to build. It's liking to build too. THE process of building.

You have to want to build...if there is a model of a car that someone love but they are not the kind of person who likes to work with their hands, they're not going to build it. I'm not going to build something I don't like either. Nobody does that.

[martinfan5]

My point was that its not the subject alone that motivates people to build. It's liking to build too. THE process of building.

You have to want to build...if there is a model of a car that someone love but they are not the kind of person who likes to work with their hands, they're not going to build it. I'm not going to build something I don't like either. Nobody does that.

Then I must of misunderstood that part my mistake

Edited May 15, 2013 by martinfan5

[kalbert]

I guess I don't care if future generations build models or not, but it is an innocent wholesome activity that helped make me a well rounded person and would certainly foster the same positive experience in "these kids today". I also don't think "the hobby is dying", but I do think we need to encourage the next generation of modelers. If all the the guys older than me die out and all the guys younger than me don't replace them, at some point the pickings for guys my age will start to get pretty slim!

[charlie8575]

IMHO, kids today really just need to be instilled with creativity. Get them to put down the cell phone and video game controller and go stone age on them and sit with them, and draw, build a model, sculpt clay... whatever. The little ones in my life do not need to carry my torch on.But it makes me smile that they have an interest in what I am doing. And as for adults, you never know who is a model builder out there. There is no accuate representation of who is building out there. There is no modelers census. But the manufactures are doing well enough to bestow new stuff on us that most of us want to spend our hard earned dollars on. The health of our beloved hobby seems to being doing well. There is light at the end of this tunnel and to me it's bright.

It's not just models but working with your hands in general. With the reduction of music, art, and shop classes in schools and ever more reliance on computers (of any type) to do your thinking and interacting I see an alarming trend in the coming generations. Modeling is as much about problem solving, patience, and discipline as the end product, be it plane, train, or automobile. Young people need those skills and I'm afraid they're not getting them. End rant.

I think both of you have really hit home on these comments. Our younger people need to be exposed to things that will engage their hands and minds besides some piece of electronic junk that generally does nothing but destroy brain cells and blunt creativity.

I spent a lot of time in classrooms as a teacher and student over the years. The lack of creativity and ability to express themselves amongst those that are following is truly alarming. Introducing these kids to not just model building, but the act of creation is critical if we're to have any success.

I very recently heard a rather scary statistic that I'm now engaged in tracking the source of: the average high school graduate of the present day has a vocabulary of approximately 800-1000 words. When I graduated high school in 1993 (wow...twenty years, where did the time go? ), it was about 1500-2000. The overuse of computers, mobile phones, an acronym-heavy language, and the overall puerility of contemporary popular culture that demotes and demeans intelligence, are squarely placed as the blame.

Based on my observations of a year at a community college as a student, sixteen months of graduate school with a substantial number of younger people as classmates, and returning to the classroom for the first half of the 2012-13 school year, empirical observation compels me to agree with this finding.

Coming attractions to education such as Common Core (see http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/common-core-a-tocquevillean-education-or-cartel-federalism#axzz2T6VbSCIW) and other brain-numbing exercises in public K-12 education will only serve to worsen the problem. Add in the instant gratification culture, and we have a BIG problem.

I commend to all adults here....find a kid, grab a snap-kit of their choice, and walk them through the whole build up. Paint, detail, research details. Teach patience and thoroughness. Teach pride in their work, unlike the social and educational pundits who equate pride with gloating, and have dissuaded us from having that in our work.

I think model building, pencil-and-paper drafting, sculpting, anything like that at all, is critical to taking our children back from too many negative influences. It will teach them not only creativity, but the greatest gift we can give them...the ability to think and reason effectively, and independently.

Charlie Larkin

[W-409]

Modeling needs to attract these newer generations if it is to continue on for much longer. That realization has been around for years. Being a member of this middle ground, this gray area between the younger end of one and the older end of the other, I can see some real opportunities for the modeling community to draw in these "kids". From seeing countless screenshots and setups they've posted there is still a love for things automotive. They are willing to learn new methods to come up with something that fits their vision. The question then becomes how to channel that energy into a physical manifestation of a model rather than a digital one in their technology.

First and foremost, is the available subjects. They tend to most interested in the newest high-end sports cars and classic iron of the pro-touring variety. Companies such as Revell have to get better with bringing these to market much quicker. ZL1 Camaros, Shelby Mustangs and Vipers, Italian and European supercars need to be ready to go when the real ones hit the street. On the pro-touring front, it's not good enough to slap a set of big-inch billets on an old tool ala the Cali Wheels or Foose and call it good. They have more limited funds and buying a kit just for that LS7, or Cobra motor or new Hemi is a hurdle for them. We need the return of true 2n1s that have the stock pieces to satisfy the older crowd but also the separate tooling of the modern performance pieces that the younger crowds see in their magazines and online. The same goes for the wheels. There needs to be more of the true pro-touring wheels much like the sets Aoshima and Fujimi put out. Some of the heritage-style wheels, from the Cali Wheels series for example, are fitting but in general the options are seriously lacking in scale. I have never once seen a drag racing or rep stock classic car in one of their screenshots. These subjects are pretty much a representation of a bygone era and they have no connection to the subject matter at all.

I agree that Model Building needs to attract new Modelers from the New Generations. And for example in my family, me, a 16 year-old guy got interested in building Models when I saw my father's '70 Chevelle SS he built in the '90s. That was around 2002-2003 and then Dad was not building Model Cars actively. When I had been building for a couple of years and only Old School style American Muscle Cars or '50s to '60s Classics, dad got interested in building again and he started to build '62 Impala Super Stocker as it raced in the '60s. Then he has built many models after that one, and so do I too. Then my Little sister, 12 years old told that she'd like to build something too. We picked Revell's '60 Impala to her, the new California Wheels kit. Right away she told us that she would never use those big inch wheels or other modern parts from the kit.

This shows that it is not always necessary to try to get new generations in the hobby even if they are not interested in it.

And as for the subjects, in our family we all hate Big inch wheels and those horrible Low Profile Tires. None of us have Never built a Model Car or 1:1 car with any bigger wheels than 15" (And now I mean American Cars, I've built one Lancia Stratos and Porsche 935 that had bigger wheels from the factory!). If they would offer kits with modern engines and other stuff like that, they needed to be 2 In 1 with a possibility to build Stock version also. Otherwise I guess they wouldn't sell good enough.

[charlie8575]

One thing I'd like to add in Niko's defense...

A lot of the kids I had at school are very much like him taste-wise. They really don't have interest in the new stuff at all...even the fancy exotic machines. I found a lot of my students were more interested in prewar cars and 1950s-60s cars because they had character and style.

I introduced several 5th graders to Packards and explained to them all the neat stuff they had, their build quality, their engineering, and what blew them away was not only those things but the style. Those coach-built Packards, however, are one car big-inch wheels DO belong on!

Charlie Larkin

[Bernard Kron]

If I put myself in the position of the OP I guess I'd find some aspects of this discussion rather depressing as they seem to totally ignore the points he was raising. Of course if we are unable to see any reason for an interest in the future of the hobby as long as our personal needs are adequately served, then there is no reason to consider his points. For myself I find the original insights quite interesting and certainly appropriate if a company like Revell has any aspirations to enduring beyond the next few years. I find the notion of very contemporary, up to the minute releases and true modern 2-in-1 kits quite exciting and inspiring.

Subject matter is important, particularly when you're starting out, since the crafts aspect of the hobby is largely unknown to you. In the beginning it's just about all you have to go on. Indeed I think the recent Rat Roaster and Foose releases from Revell points to some sort of attempt to bridge the kind of gap the OP has quite eloquently pointed out. I also agree with what he intimates, that Revell needs to do a far better job if they hope to succeed at filling that void. For Round 2 the challenge is even greater. As for the foreign model companies, the Japanese ones, not so much. Their releases are largely targeted to European and Asian audiences where they appear to be pretty contemporary. I think the OP has done a fine job of raising some productive and apt matters worthy of consideration in the North American market.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Bernard Kron

[chevyfever2009]

This part is for harry as a editor of a model car mag you should care because without new modlers now or in the future the business u work for can go bankrupt and close down before your gone. Now im not saying shove the hobby down kids throat bit show it to them and let them decide of they want to my kid and my gfs kid loves watchin me build models my daughter who is almost three loves 1:1 muscle cars when she sees one her eyes are glued on it till she cant see it nomore . My gfs daughter has expressed interst in building a model so me and her this summer is gonna build and paint a snaptight putty tang. So even if. She builds one now and not another one for ten years she will been exposed to the hobby and you never now get into and stay with it and me and her will always have the time and memorys of building that car togather and thats in its self would be worth it even if she just built the one.

Now for the second part if no new modlers get into the hobby and after the older builders pass on. And the model companys dont adapt to the newer market and offer newer cars and trucks then they go out of busniess. For us who have stashes theyll last for a while but then wat after you ve built them all and there are nomore kits on any websites for sale the hobby would die out just like cbs and other hobbies so yea as younger builder i think it is important to expose our kids and youths to the hobby and for the modeling companys to adapt and release new and older cars regularly.

Edited May 15, 2013 by chevyfever2009

[LOBBS]

I agree that Model Building needs to attract new Modelers from the New Generations. And for example in my family, me, a 16 year-old guy got interested in building Models when I saw my father's '70 Chevelle SS he built in the '90s. That was around 2002-2003 and then Dad was not building Model Cars actively. When I had been building for a couple of years and only Old School style American Muscle Cars or '50s to '60s Classics, dad got interested in building again and he started to build '62 Impala Super Stocker as it raced in the '60s. Then he has built many models after that one, and so do I too. Then my Little sister, 12 years old told that she'd like to build something too. We picked Revell's '60 Impala to her, the new California Wheels kit. Right away she told us that she would never use those big inch wheels or other modern parts from the kit.

This shows that it is not always necessary to try to get new generations in the hobby even if they are not interested in it.

And as for the subjects, in our family we all hate Big inch wheels and those horrible Low Profile Tires. None of us have Never built a Model Car or 1:1 car with any bigger wheels than 15" (And now I mean American Cars, I've built one Lancia Stratos and Porsche 935 that had bigger wheels from the factory!). If they would offer kits with modern engines and other stuff like that, they needed to be 2 In 1 with a possibility to build Stock version also. Otherwise I guess they wouldn't sell good enough.

As I stated in the OP, I encouraged the return of true 2n1 kits. Maintain a stock option but flesh out the 2nd option to be more complete not merely wheels and tires and a few tidbits. I'd even be completely in support of a return of the parts packs with complete engine assemblies such as LS motors, modern Hemis and the Ford modular motors so that those interested would not have to part out an entire Camaro, Mustang or Charger just for those pieces. Same goes with the wheels sets similar to what Aoshima and Fujimi have done for years. Oftentimes, those wheels were offered in a full kit and concurrently sold as a stand alone item. They were almost always a hot seller sometimes requiring a pre-order to even obtain in any quantity. Edited May 15, 2013 by LOBBS

[LOBBS]

Below I have posted a link to the general homescreen thread to an Android forum known as XDA. It is by far the largest Android forum online with well over 3 million members. The majority of the posters there are your Gen X, Gen Y, Millennials, etc. This thread in particular is their open forum to display their creative sides. Do any amount of surfing and you will see a dozen or so real trendsetters. There are some icon sets and clocks that get popular but it's really no different than seeing Torque Thrusts on multiple builds. These "kids" do have passion to create and do take pride in what they put together it is just a different medium. This energy is what I'm referring to that could be tapped into. I'm not saying they should be forced to build models but if they had subjects that inspired them to do so, it may be another avenue of expression.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=476483

Venture outside this thread and you will find thousands of developers, most self taught, doing everything they can to offer the best apps, ROMS, themes, etc. so that members can essentially hot rod their devices. Devving is not easy, I am one so I can attest.

Edit: I guess to be fair, I'll post a couple of my go-to setups for reference. With the exception of the Vette wallpaper, everything you can see here is of my own creation; icons, clock, carbon fiber wallpaper,etc.

My apps on Google Play are here to check out my other stuff. I've only recently, in the last couple of months, started listing there so this would be my most current work.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=LOBBS

Edited May 15, 2013 by LOBBS