1978 Pontiac Firebird Formula

[Nick Winter]

Nick, just curious...I'm wondering what you define as "prep work." I'm starting to think that's why there's so much misunderstanding when people offer advice. Perhaps you think you're doing what they suggest already, when you really just don't quite get what they mean. I certainly see a lack of being on the same page with these two posts, for instance.

Sanding, priming, filling, repairing in nessary.

Trying to be constructive here Nick, like Whale. I think you missed or avoided the point he was making, quite well by my reading of it too.

Detail cleanly what is provided by the kit. You say " there's really only 4 colors that were used". But in the real world, there are many more that should be used, even if you only see four at first glance.

The physical difference between a stock Pontiac motor and a Pro Street Mopar motor is irrelevant in this point. The fair difference is the technique and attention to detail, that is the focus. That Mopar engine is a very good example of clean building. Also known as THE BASICS.

You seem to have to defend every helpful tip and offer of guidance as if it will make what you posted any better. You are showing improvement, but you are also missing out on lot of points that could be of benefit. Improve the basics, and everything will improve.

Thank you, That was actually really helpful.

[Nick Winter]

Nick,

You have a good eye for detail my man. Hey build it like you want, but you can do better. This isn't a race. SLOW down, take your time, and bring all those details to life!

Nobody's busting your chops bro, we see the talent in you we just want to see it developed.

The points made were very appropriate. Take a breath, and read the replies again. "Listen" to what's being said.

And keep 'em coming

Thank you, some builds I will admit I rush, usually because I know I won't have the time to finish it in the future.

Tonight, it's time for a reckoning of sorts.....

I get to bitch, you get to post after it......

That's the GREAT thing about what it is I am about to do.....

Dukefan, I love ya.... But I have not see ONE IOTA of progress in your modeling. Not one!!!!!

You post the same lame ass ###### over and over again...... When are you going to invest in a sharp knife and some BMF??? Take a chance man!

The weakest paint jobs sidled by the lamest subjects is beginning to get my GOAT!

I post... Beautiful cars... Highly [usually] detailed subjects, yet, I get less views than this ShappaHead!!!!!!

I am FLOORED beyond it all...

http://www.modelcars...=1&#entry278149

This is a car CLEARLY above what is generally posted here... The post count is so low I thought it really didn't get noticed.

Before you think this is a cry for attention.... let me say this. I appreciate the time OTHERS put in to patronize other posters. But where's the help?

Saying, their POS is worthy of our reverence? I know it deserves HEALTHY criticism, but we are not helping Nick telling him we are on board with his less than avarage builds time after time.

Time to MAN UP Nick. Build something righteous DUDE. I have had it.

I Am not being PC here and I could care less. Truth is..... The more of us that get on the less than motivated, the better this hobby will be.

I know this seems unseemly coming from me, but I have had it with just OK. I want better than OK.......

Dukesfan...... buy a friggin knife and some BMF......

Bob Frias OUT....

WTF? is your problem, That really pissed me off. You know what.................................................................................................................................................................................................Forget it

[Nick Winter]

I think U guys have it all got it wrong. The boy is 14 coming 15 and for his age I say he is doing a great job. yeah everybody needs to learn but give him a chance and stop busting his balls. This model has inspired me to go hunting for a firebird kit. So dukfan it's a THUMBS UP FROM ME.

Thank you.

As stated earlier Craig, we are not busting his balls. We are trying to help him understand his problem areas and get better/stronger in those areas. At 15, I was in a model club with guys twice my age at the youngest. They sat me down, pointed out my bad areas, and helped me understand and get better. By 19, I was able to make wheels removable, detail engine bays convincingly, and lay down good paint jobs and work with BMF. At 19, I chopped a Sedan into a 'vert (the new-at-the-time Lindberg Dodge 330 Super Stocker) and made it look like the kit was done that way.

I am glad that Nick inspired you to build one of the Firebirds....Davezinn is working that very magic on me right now (no matter how hard I try to resist). Nick has the potential to be real good, if he would just take the time to finish his prep work and lay down some smooth paint. THAT is what we are trying to get him to understand. No ball-busting, just reality. You can die with 1,000 rough built models or die with 100 very nice models. Either way you are dead, but what will be remembered or represented...........that you cared about the finer details of life or you half-attepmted it? Personally, I would rather have cared about the finer points (that is just me from an older perspective).

Modle car club I wish, I'm friggin' alone in this hobby around here, no clubs, no friends who build, just me.

[Nick Winter]

Part of the "problem," though I don't know if I'd go so far to call it one, is that Nick often asks for help in a given area, or says he had trouble with some aspect, then when someone offers help he replies with something like "I did that!!! You're not helping!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Same thing with "is Nick happy with the result?" On one hand, he'll say all the things he'd have done different, or wish turned out better, but when people suggest ways to get there...a fire-back with "Stop being mean! Here's the reasons-all out of my control-that it turned out like that!!!" type responses.

So, to address your points, I think that nobody would be bothering with responses if Nick said "Here's my stuff, take it or leave it, I'm happy with it." It's a result of the mixed-message post text that he wants to improve things/respond emotionally when suggestions for improvement are made. I've erred on the side that thinks he really doeswant to improve, and tried my best to provide what insights I can.

I want to improve, I do but not everything at once give me a friggin break, I don't have 10 hours a day to work on my skills, I got to school for 6 hours, I come home and do 2 hours of homework, by this time it's dinner time, I have dinner, there's an hour sometimes more, I have a shower, I walk my dog for about and hour and a half, there's about 11 hours, On weekends, I rarely spend the whole day modelling, also you guys forget, you have money, I don't I'm on a VERY fixed income, so of you make $100,000 a year I'm lucky if I make $1000 in a year, and when I make my money it's doing hard jobs noone else wants.

Much as described by Mr. Taylor I see a reactive, defensive side to the help offered. And wonder why Nick is so resistant and indecorous to the efforts of so many here to help him improve. As if Nick thinks is already one of the better builders, but his work clearly does not back up the attitude and his parroted “historical knowledgeâ€, which when corrected is met with equally annoying responses (excuses).

He may be the best young builder in Whitby, but not here by a long shot. There are many seasoned and accomplished builders here that are trying to help him improve his building. It is very rude for him to complain to the qualified builders who are trying to help and are honest about what everyone can see by justifying what he built as if it is to the level of quality he seems to think it is in his mind.

Nick, maybe you should do some homework and find out who some of the guys who are trying to help are, what their credentials are before you dismiss them as “about as good as you†and further insult them. You obviously know how to collect info from the internet. Or are you already knowledgeable of these guys and is it a personality trait you are displaying?

If you are content building to the level you are, fine. But don’t whine when you don’t get the responses you want. I know you say you are 14, but you also claimed to be a very mature 14, act like it and grow up. Part of that is accepting the constructive criticism you have asked for. Or continue doing what you do and get the responses you get, it is attention after all, I suspect that is what it is really all about for you… Otherwise why would you continue this way?

Don't say things like that, you don't know my town, until you do don't say that, I'm not I'm 90% sure I'm not, I'm not the only modeller in Whitby that's for sure, otherwise Randy would go out of buisness.

Once again who would pretent to be 14, it sucks, I'm too young for a part time job, I can't drive legally, I can't do what I want, and I have to sit in a hot sweaty, smelly classrom listening to a teacher tell us were all idiots.

[trogdor]

Tell ya what Nick, you need to consider yourself lucky. Most of these guys had to learn long ago by themselves what they are trying to give you for free. Back in the 60's when I started the resources that are available today were non existent. No body likes criticism, but guess what kid, that's how ya learn. Instead of running your mouth, stop, listen and learn. Who friggen cares if your feelings are hurt boo hoo. I sure pity you when you get older and you realize the world doesn't owe you ######. You've got a lot to learn kid

[Nick Winter]

Tell ya what Nick, you need to consider yourself lucky. Most of these guys had to learn long ago by themselves what they are trying to give you for free. Back in the 60's when I started the resources that are available today were non existent. No body likes criticism, but guess what kid, that's how ya learn. Instead of running your mouth, stop, listen and learn. Who friggen cares if your feelings are hurt boo hoo. I sure pity you when you get older and you realize the world doesn't owe you ######. You've got a lot to learn kid

Who cares when you started, don't give me this, I don't care if you had to walk 10 miles both ways to and from school, go back to the retirement home grandpa.

[whale392]

Nick, get over yourself. Nowhere did I say YOUR work was half-attempted. Obviously you can quote a post, but you FAIL at context. This is the last time I offer you any advice if you can't back your temper down and listen. You getting better doesn't make my mortgage (house) payment, nor my College tuition. It doesn't put food on my table or gas in my cars. My JOB does that, my LIFE does that....not yours. Get off your High-and-Mighty attitude, drop the defensive, shut the F up and listen, Then again, you are showing all the attributes of a typical teenager.........don't worry, you'll be fine. Keep building the way you are and acting the way you do and you will STAY alone. Just my personal observations from being in this hobby for 27 years.

[MikeMc]

[Jeff Sauber]

Things seem to be deteriorating once again...

Nick, I think we've done all we can do here. It's up to you as to how far you want to improve on your building efforts. Stop bickering back and forth and spend the time following Mark's clinics and practicing at the work bench. [bill Geary has also given a good seminar with the '49 mercury buildup].

We can lead you to a few good watering holes, but we can't make you drink.......It's up to you where you decide go from here. I hope you make the right choices. [Your models will improve greatly if you do choose to follow the advice many have given forth here.]

Edited May 14, 2010 by J. Sauber

[Harry P.]

So... apparently we have a convention of the Association of Potty Mouths here on this thread!

Ok guys, I just had to edit about 20 posts here. You all know the rule about swearing on the forum. So why are you doing it? Do you all need the rule rewritten in smaller words so you all can understand it?

I have better things to do than go through all of your posts and edit them. Either post without swearing or don't post at all. And if you keep on doing it, I'll take care of your language problems here permanently.

[Guest Mustang3.8]

Nick, your Firebird looks great. Very well done. Keep it up.

[Scale-Master]

Some guys here can build show pieces in their sleep; others can't build a clean model to save their life. How many time must it be said: IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE HOW MUCH EFFORT YOU PUT INTO IT IF IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD, IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.

"I got to school for 6 hours, I come home and do 2 hours of homework, by this time it's dinner time, I have dinner, there's an hour sometimes more, I have a shower, I walk my dog for about and hour and a half, there's about 11 hours, On weekends, I rarely spend the whole day modelling"

So how the heck did you spend those 800 hours on that Firebird? I see a huge disconnect between what you claim to invest in time/effort on you models, and your own stated impossibility to build for the amount of time. I am throwing the BS flag on your time invested claims.

BTW, my "masterpiece" Blue 7 cost me $350.00 in materials over 31 months, modeling is not that expensive. At least for a scratch builder.

"I have to sit in a hot sweaty, smelly classrom listening to a teacher tell us were all idiots"

Well, the teacher does have credentials… and you are being an impudent little snot nosed 14 year old. My money is on the teacher for making a qualified judgment call.

"Who cares when you started, don't give me this, I don't care if you had to walk 10 miles both ways to and from school, go back to the retirement home grandpa."

What a disrespectful jerk you are being Nicky. There was absolutely no reason for that comment.

You threw a hissy when I said you had a bad attitude before, and here you are throwing another childish tantrum. Somebody give this baby a bottle!

You are having such a hard time in the adult world, maybe you should take a time out, sit in the corner until you learn some manners. It's one thing to build the way you do, it is entirely different to be an obnoxoius disrespectful blow hard.

Used to be there was an age requirement on most boards, 18 years old. If there is one on this board I suggest it be enforced.

[Nick Winter]

Some guys here can build show pieces in their sleep; others can't build a clean model to save their life. How many time must it be said: IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE HOW MUCH EFFORT YOU PUT INTO IT IF IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD, IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.

"I got to school for 6 hours, I come home and do 2 hours of homework, by this time it's dinner time, I have dinner, there's an hour sometimes more, I have a shower, I walk my dog for about and hour and a half, there's about 11 hours, On weekends, I rarely spend the whole day modelling"

So how the heck did you spend those 800 hours on that Firebird? I see a huge disconnect between what you claim to invest in time/effort on you models, and your own stated impossibility to build for the amount of time. I am throwing the BS flag on your time invested claims.

BTW, my "masterpiece" Blue 7 cost me $350.00 in materials over 31 months, modeling is not that expensive. At least for a scratch builder.

"I have to sit in a hot sweaty, smelly classrom listening to a teacher tell us were all idiots"

Well, the teacher does have credentials… and you are being an impudent little snot nosed 14 year old. My money is on the teacher for making a qualified judgment call.

"Who cares when you started, don't give me this, I don't care if you had to walk 10 miles both ways to and from school, go back to the retirement home grandpa."

What a disrespectful jerk you are being Nicky. There was absolutely no reason for that comment.

You threw a hissy when I said you had a bad attitude before, and here you are throwing another childish tantrum. Somebody give this baby a bottle!

You are having such a hard time in the adult world, maybe you should take a time out, sit in the corner until you learn some manners. It's one thing to build the way you do, it is entirely different to be an obnoxoius disrespectful blow hard.

Used to be there was an age requirement on most boards, 18 years old. If there is one on this board I suggest it be enforced.

I'm not saying a ###### thing.

[Scale-Master]

I'm not saying a ###### thing.

Yet you choose to respond with characters that may represent words you were told not to use. What is wrong with you?

You have the right to remain silent; it seems you just lack the ability.

[Jeff Sauber]

What fun you miss during 9 hours of air travel!

I've decided to get out the popcorn and a cold one......Sadly, there's not much else to do with this thread, except sit back and watch it go crashing into the mountain ridge and explode into a million little smoldering tidbits...

You can't squeeze blood from turnips.

[Robert81]

This is getting out of hand.

Nick is a kid, he hasn't developed the skills you think he should be born with. Some things you have to learn on your own.

No matter how you say it, he has to learn at his own rate. You can't tell people how to do things they need to be shown.

Engorgement is how to help this young man, not belittling him. Your advise and assistance can and does come off harshly.

As a parent, I know with children and young people you need to use a gentle touch, not a heavy hand.

You guy need to back off, let this boy develop as he will. Being forceful with your so call "Advise" will only drive him away from our hobby and forum.

Many whine about getting the younger generations into this hobby. Put your self in his place.

I'm going to ask you all one thing: when you were his age did your builds look better than this?

You'll attract more bees with Honey that Vinegar.

[Robert81]

Have you read ANY of his replies. All he does is whine cry and cause DRAMA. That's why he is now "Ignored" as far as I'm concerned. It's probably the best decision I've made in aLoooooooooooooooong time. Be a much nicer and more enjoyable board without haveing to put up with seeing his bull and attitude.

Now to find those that pamper him and ignore them too.

Look at yourself. You didn't need to open your mouth. It would have been best if you didn't.

Drama feeds on Drama.

I hope you brought your fork. You are at the head table in every case of Drama I've seen lately.

[whale392]

Robert81; while I can respect your thoughts and ideas, if you would read some of his postings (even the edited ones) you will see we are not dealing with a 'child' here. Innocence IS NOT his to command. Heavy hand you say.......my father ruled with an Iron Fist and I love him for it. He taught me discipline, respect, and hard working values. These days too many people take that 'soft' attitude with the youth............have you looked at the juvenile crime rates and complete degredation of respect this country has slipped into lately. Perhaps we need some 'Tough Love' brought back.

And looking back, I can honestly answer your question with a YES. Dad has found most of my old builds, and when I can get back to Florida to get them, I will post results to back my claim.

Edited May 14, 2010 by whale392

[Robert81]

Robert81; while I can respect your thoughts and ideas, if you would read some of his postings (even the edited ones) you will see we are not dealing with a 'child' here. Innocence IS NOT his to command. Heavy hand you say.......my father ruled with an Iron Fist and I love him for it. He taught me discipline, respect, and hard working values. These days too many people take that 'soft' attitude with the youth............have you looked at the juvenile crime rates and complete degredation of respect this country has slipped into lately. Perhaps we need some 'Tough Love' brought back.

I can't respect "tough Love" when it's not your place.

what happened to "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"?

[Harry P.]

Ok, guys, this has gone on about as long as I'm willing to let it go on. Some of you have made posts here that are way out of line and go far beyond "constructive criticism" and into bashing territory.

Just remember... Nick is 14. He's a KID. You have to remember that when you judge his building abilities and his character. He's a "work in progress" on both counts, and I think a little more understanding and a little less bashing would have been the wiser choice, especially since all of the posters on this thread are much older than 14.

For those of you who offered actual constructive criticism and advice, thank you. For those of you who decided to come down on him, you really shouldn't have done that. We were all 14 once... remember???