Agent G Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Since the markings appear to be more correct for a later model I have a question. When the agency in question changed the markings from the 70 style to the 74 style would they update the markings for any older cars they still had? Could this be built as a older car that was still around in 74/75, maybe with some wear and tear and such. For Las Vegas, no. The Las Vegas City Police Department and Clark County Sheriff's Department merged into what is now the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department in '72. That's why the '74 depicted is tan/white. Most major cities wouldn't have a car for four years. If there was one, it would have been in a specialized unit, where it wasn't driven much or just driven by one or two people. Changing markings/colors is a huge fiscal and logistical undertaking. My old department had 365 marked cars, just cars, not vans, trucks, bikes, just cars. We changed graphics in '93 and again in '95, and again in '96 all due to financial considerations. There were so many cars on the street all marked differently it seemed like three seperate departments. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsheehy Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Since the markings appear to be more correct for a later model I have a question. When the agency in question changed the markings from the 70 style to the 74 style would they update the markings for any older cars they still had? Could this be built as a older car that was still around in 74/75, maybe with some wear and tear and such. As G stated, no, they would not update older cars unless a particular car needed a repaint from an accident, then an older car might get newer graphics. But it would not be a fleet-wide changeover. Our only hope is that they are secretly working on a 74 Dodge Monaco. Then all then all the decals would be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Brian Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Thanks, I just trying to find a way to use the kit decals. My company changed our logo last year and we update our entire fleet to the new decals, we probably did several thousand vehicles in all so that is what promtped the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent G Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Biggest thing there Brian is exposure. Businesses change graphics for a specific reason, target new customers, and make old customers feel safe and secure with a new and improved company. It's the price of doing business. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Our only hope is that they are secretly working on a 74 Dodge Monaco. Yeah, buddy! Bring 'em on! Are you listening, Revell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olskoolrodder Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Yeah, buddy! Bring 'em on! Are you listening, Revell? +2! So where would one need ot go to find correct decals (or decals for a specific car)? I haven't done very many PD cars,so have no idear (obviously I picked up a couple of these ),but thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsheehy Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Someone brought up a good point in another forum. This kit's decals coincide with the now Round-2 (former Ertl) 1/18 diecast 74 Dodge Monaco. Those markings they already have the licensing for. Therefore, they probably just rescaled them and put them on this decal sheet hoping that we'd be happy. Correct decals for this car are available from many aftermarket sources that offer police related items. Police car models.com has an entire decal section with many 1/25 sets. Just do your research on the agencies you're considering and they'll probably have something for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migace Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 I got the brochure images for ford police vehicles. With the ModelHaus resins you could make alot of these vehicles. Also in these pictures the descriptions of packages, and engine choices which was a big topic earlier in this post. Thought all of you would like this reference material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olskoolrodder Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Someone brought up a good point in another forum. This kit's decals coincide with the now Round-2 (former Ertl) 1/18 diecast 74 Dodge Monaco. Those markings they already have the licensing for. Therefore, they probably just rescaled them and put them on this decal sheet hoping that we'd be happy. Correct decals for this car are available from many aftermarket sources that offer police related items. Police car models.com has an entire decal section with many 1/25 sets. Just do your research on the agencies you're considering and they'll probably have something for you. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelbuilder Mark Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) SNIP We changed graphics in '93 and again in '95, and again in '96 all due to financial considerations. There were so many cars on the street all marked differently it seemed like three seperate departments. G Sorry, just a little confused. Wouldn't changing the graphics that many times that close together NOT be considerate of the finances? Edited November 27, 2012 by Modelbuilder Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Sorry, just a little confused. Wouldn't changing the graphics that many times that close together NOT be considerate of the finances? Yes and no, state,city, county law enforcement departments get money from the government, and in many case's you have to use all the money up before you can get more for the next year. So spending the money on new markings for the cars is a good way to use up the funds. Edited November 27, 2012 by martinfan5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordRodnKustom Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I got the brochure images for ford police vehicles. With the ModelHaus resins you could make alot of these vehicles. Also in these pictures the descriptions of packages, and engine choices which was a big topic earlier in this post. Thought all of you would like this reference material. Thanks. That helps out a lot. FWIW the agency in the area I was in in 69-70 had 69 models. The regular patrol cars had 302's in them and the "traffic" units that patroled the Expressways and such had 429 wedge mills and generally looked heavier duty all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelbuilder Mark Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Yes and no, state,city, county law enforcement departments get money from the government, and in many case's you have to use all the money up before you can get more for the next year. So spending the money on new markings for the cars is a good way to use up the funds. Yeah, govt./budgetary sense/(cents?) at work. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent G Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Actually what happened was they continued to simplify the design. Seems the body shop decided it was way too much work to replace all the graphics after repairing a boo boo. What with stripes/lettering/logos and such it was a chore, not to mention nearly $2000 of vinyl per car. It was also quite a headache to prepare a new car for service. If the body guys had a bad day it looked like the car was striped by a drunken sailor. We started with a simple door decal, then added stripes, then added the arch and modified the stripes. That was the final straw when the price rocketed. We started eliminating items fron the design. Stripes were first, then the lettering style. Now the cars pretty much just say "police". Here's where we started. What they looked like when I started Stripes V1 What they looked like when I retired. Stripes V2 was like this with a big blue and two yellow stripes. New cars are pretty much the same but have plain block letters. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Yes and no, state,city, county law enforcement departments get money from the government, and in many case's you have to use all the money up before you can get more for the next year. So spending the money on new markings for the cars is a good way to use up the funds. Not only that, but another reason may be that changing graphics actually resulted in a decrease of per-vehicle costs and related increase of resale value when the vehicles were surplussed. An example. As products improved and new materials became available, the per-unit costs typically went down. Maintaining use of an older graphic (scheme and material) may have been more expensive than buying a newer graphic in a new material. And, in the past, the supplier selling the graphics often kept the copyright on the scheme. The only way an agency could realize an expense reduction was to change to a different supplier ... and that supplier could not replicate the existing markings without violating their competitor's copyright. An agency I worked for went through this. In addition, we had a chief once who purchased an artsy, elegant, and expensive marking scheme, then had all the vehicles converted to it. As they were damaged and required refinishing, or as they required replacement, the expense of purchasing replacement marking packages escalated to the point that the city's beer budget would no longer support his champagne tastes. We had to change markings again. Most agencies view their vehicle markings (and officer uniforms) as a huge part of their "brand" and public image. It is very common for a change in leadership (new chief or newly elected sheriff) to result in a make-over of the appearance of the agency (read that - new uniforms in different colors or new vehicle markings or colors) just to reinforce that the old guy is gone and there's a new boss in charge. Sometimes new materials or technologies make trendy things more cost-effective than the old stuff. And fads sweep the law enforcement community as well as anywhere else. For a time, foil markings were the big thing. Then stripes ~ especially reflective stripes ~ were huge. Then there was the stealth craze (grey markings on black cars). Now, it seems like everybody is going back to black and white. The old markings that looked great on plain white cars often doesn't work well on the black fenders. More change. Just as an FYI ... interestingly, none of this has ever seemed to affect the Denver Police Department. Their uniforms have remained the same since time began, their badges have never changed, and their vehicles carry the same colors (white) and markings since the late forties. Talk about consistency! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Some very good points Danno, and that all makes sense, what about in some case's , depts will test if you will new or purposed new markings, I say this because, Goodyear Pd for the good part of I want to say 12 years now have been white with a black/blue striping down the middle, but in the last say six months, they have two?, Tahoes, maybe more in B&W , its only Tahoes, none of the cars are in B&W yet, so that can mean a few things, either and or they are testing the new markings, or only doing the B&W on new PPV's the city gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Some very good points Danno, and that all makes sense, what about in some case's , depts will test if you will new or purposed new markings, I say this because, Goodyear Pd for the good part of I want to say 12 years now have been white with a black/blue striping down the middle, but in the last say six months, they have two?, Tahoes, maybe more in B&W , its only Tahoes, none of the cars are in B&W yet, so that can mean a few things, either and or they are testing the new markings, or only doing the B&W on new PPV's the city gets. Some agencies just can't justify the expense of changing existing vehicles to a new scheme, especially if they have a large percentage of vehicles already close ~ or well on their way ~ to retirement. So, they just rotate the new markings in through attrition (new vehicles replacing old vehicles). Other agencies don't want to have the confusion so they budget for a complete changeover. Even so, they generally start re-marking the lower mileage vehicles first ... and silently hope some the high mileage units will breakdown or crash before their turn for remarking ~ thus saving some money. And you still haven't asked me about the baby blue patrol car! The story fits right in ... here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) I was waiting tell the meeting to ask you, then point out that the interior is not baby blue , but if you want to tell it, then go ahead. Well again that makes sense about changing paint schemes. Edited November 28, 2012 by martinfan5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) I was waiting tell the meeting to ask you, then point out that the interior is not baby blue , but if you want to tell it, then go ahead. Well again that makes sense about changing paint schemes. For many years, Wichita (KS) PD ran white cars with black hoods (no one I knew ever knew why), beacon mounted on the roof, and (most of them) a "stop - police" light on the right front fender, radio antenna on the rear fender, spotlight on the A pillar, and a gold foil badge on the door with "police" in gold foil letters arched over the badge. In 1970, somebody came up with a plan to improve resale value for retired patrol cars. They ordered a fleet of 1970 Dodge Coronet sedans in random factory colors with no pillar-mounted spotlights. The cars were equipped with gutter-mount Federal Visibars that had front and rear facing reflective signs between the beacons and the siren speaker - one side said "Wichita," the other side said "Police." They mounted the radio antenna on the light bar. They had hand-held spotlights in the interior. The end result was that there were no sticky graphics anywhere on the car body, the vehicles were random factory colors, and there were no holes in the bodies. It was very modern, and accomplished what they were after. Kinda different, kinda neat. They still had a good supply of 1968 and 1969 Fords in service that were still white with black hoods and the foil graphics. They cycled those vehicles through the street department's body shop and had them all painted various colors ... whatever the shop had on hand. Then came a very low-mileage 1968 Ford that had been assigned to the airport. Very low mileage, so it was a long way from retirement despite being two years old. The shop had a gallon of baby blue. The '68 Ford rolled out of the shop with the new gutter mount Visibar setup and ... sparkled in its baby blue glory. It was hideous. And rather effeminate. Officers fought over it ~ none would drive it. Rumor had it that some guys even went home "sick" rather than drive it. After a year ... and still unbelievably low mileage ... it was surplussed ... but didn't sell at auction. They repainted it black and it sold right away. Wichita PD never had a baby blue police car again. Edited November 28, 2012 by Danno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent G Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Funny story! In the 70's we ordered cars that came in various colors, but we added the same graphics to all. Sometime I'll tell you the story of a failed experiment, baby blue Ford Fairmonts...................................... I want to add to my previous post, that when we changed graphics, the new design was implemented on a new fleet. Old cars were never retrofitted with new graphics unless the car was completely repainted due to damage. We usually bought 50-100 cars at a time. Now this meant we had several different sets of graphics at one time. Our cars really didn't last long enough, so the good citizens weren't totally confused. Tradition abounds! St Louis has used the same unique badge since 1937, the uniform dates to just after the 1904 World's fair. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000-cvpi Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I would've drove that baby blue Ford, and made it look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronw Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The San Francisco PD has used the same markings from the beginning, a blue and gold 7 point star with SFPD on mostly black & white cars (dark blue or black into the 1940s). Except for a period 1975 to 80 under an unpopular chief. Under Chief Charles Gain the markings changed to a simple city seal with Police Services in block letters, and the cars went from black & white to baby blue and white. There are photos floating around of Pintos and Novas in these markings as well as more traditional cruisers. He was the Police Chief across the bay in Oakland, CA 1967-73. He made similar changes but more restrained while in Oakland. He changed the color of the cars from black and white to a light tan and white, but left the markings alone. Oakland has many large parks, and the city used to have a seperate park police division complete with light green and white patrol cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Green and white is unique! But then, the Border Patrol would be jealous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 That was a funny story Dan, so no one wanted to drive or buy a baby blue sedan , cant say I blame them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972coronet Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Two words regarding California-spec police cars in the 70's : 1.) Jerry 2.) Brown 'Nuff said ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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