72 Charger Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Hi has anyone built a rig with an Allison aircraft engine in before? . This is a project that Ive been planning for a bit . I have the engine already and a few other parts like the cab and axels . Im using the P****d off Pete as reference . But I have not seen any Rat Rigs with the Allison engine in. Does anyone know what this engine was used in (other that aircraft or tractor pulling) Thanks Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petetrucker07 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Terry has a Peter plane build using the Allison and the Jimmy Flintstone cab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) There have been several Allison-powered land-vehicles other than pulling-tractors. The engine was also popular for unlimited-class hydroplane race-boats, before turbines. Arfons built a couple of "Green Monster" drag cars running Allisons, and the Jim Lyttle-built "Big Al" series included a 4-engined Fiat and an Isetta. Big Al III was this COE tractor. Then there was the '57 Plymouth "Nightmare", built by E J Potter (who also built Nightmare II, an Allison-powered Dart station wagon). And right here at the forum is an Allison-powered Deora-based build by Psychographic... http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/?showtopic=57976&page=2 Edited February 21, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpeterbilt Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Hi has anyone built a rig with an Allison aircraft engine in before? . This is a project that Ive been planning for a bit . I have the engine already and a few other parts like the cab and axels . Im using the P****d off Pete as reference . But I have not seen any Rat Rigs with the Allison engine in. Does anyone know what this engine was used in (other that aircraft or tractor pulling) Thanks Dave There was a huge surplus of these engines after the war. The drag racing guys started using them, and from what Ive heard they were buying them in the crate for $100 bucks. The problem with them is the crank spins counter clockwise. Thats why all of the automotive applications have it rear mounted. The only truck I know of that used it was an experimental Kenworth. They built it at the same time they were experimenting with gas turbine engines. I have a few builds going on using these engines http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87986&page=3#entry1338067 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) The problem with them is the crank spins counter clockwise. Thats why all of the automotive applications have it rear mounted. Actually, Allison engines were built as both RH and LH rotation, depending on the intended aircraft installation, and they were designed to be assembled to run either way (with only minor parts differences). The engines in a P-38 rotate in opposite directions, for example, and an installation in a "pusher" configuration (prop in rear) usually requires reverse-rotation. Here's two more street-driven examples... Edited February 21, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 That's some great info guys thanks. I need to find out how to pipe it up with water fuel and electrickery . But im assuming that when the Allison engine was in an aircraft it would of been air cooled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) It was always water-cooled, even in aircraft. An engine is designed to be water-cooled from the start, and stays that way. Here's how it's plumbed in a P-40 Warhawk. The AMT Allison engine kit includes the entire ignition system, including the shrouds the plug wires run in (parts 36, 37, 38, 39) which attach to the distributor case, part 23. There should be wires running from the magneto, parts 21-22, to the distributor case. There would be a smallish ground wire running from the mag to a kill switch on your dashboard. These engines had electric starters, parts 15 and 16, and you should be able to find pix online of the wiring. It would be a 24-volt unit, so two 12 volt car batteries would be appropriate. For the AMT kit, the fuel pump is part 13. One fuel line would most likely run from your tank to one side of the pump, and another line up to the carb body part 20. I'm not familiar with this particular carb, so some online image searches should help you there. Do a google image search for "Allison 1710" or "Allison 1710 plumbing", etc. for whatever else you need to know. There are many slightly different versions of this engine, and you might like to do image searches for it installed in pulling tractors to get more ideas on plumbing as well. Good luck. Edited February 22, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks Bill I just assumed that it was Air cooled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Here's a copy of an old ad for surplus military engines after WW II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks Bill I just assumed that it was Air cooled That's a natural assumption to make about an airplane engine. There were a FEW V-type air-cooled aircraft engines, but for the most part, all the air-cooled engines are either radials like this ...or flat engines like this (very similar in layout to old VW, Porsche and Corvair engines) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Wow Bill thats a great add $350 for a surplus engine. Is that tube down the side of the block the water pipe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Is that tube down the side of the block the water pipe? Yes. It's shown in black on the blue-highlighted cooling system drawing above. In the ad photo, it looks like the T-connector to the water pump and the head is missing. The Allison service manual calls it out as the "spark plug cooling manifold" and it's clearly shown here. I haven't seen one of these engines in the flesh for quite a few years, and I've forgotten exactly how it's plumbed into the water pump. There are variations, but in general, the colored drawings (also from the factory manual) should get everything going in the right directions. The engine in the ad photo also has a plate bolted over the exhaust ports for shipping. You can clearly see where the outer spark plug wiring harness has plug leads coming out to the plugs. They also show very clearly in the photo above. Edited February 22, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapazleo Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 There was a huge surplus of these engines after the war. The drag racing guys started using them, and from what Ive heard they were buying them in the crate for $100 bucks. The problem with them is the crank spins counter clockwise. Thats why all of the automotive applications have it rear mounted. The only truck I know of that used it was an experimental Kenworth. They built it at the same time they were experimenting with gas turbine engines. I have a few builds going on using these engines http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87986&page=3#entry1338067 Actually thats a Hall Scott v 12 marine engine in that KW it was found to be to thirsty for practical use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpeterbilt Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Actually thats a Hall Scott v 12 marine engine in that KW it was found to be to thirsty for practical use. Good to know, I stand corrected. The place I found the photo had it listed as an Allison. Internet Accuracy strikes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Bill / Terry thank you very much for your help in finding those drawings of the plumbing . Im not to sure if I will add all those lines but I will add some to make it look busy . I have tryed to add a pic of what Ive got done so far but it says they are to big Thanks again Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapazleo Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Good to know, I stand corrected. The place I found the photo had it listed as an Allison. Internet Accuracy strikes again. Kinda of ironic I just read an article on Hall Scott and they discussed that KW. It apparently displaced 2239 cid no wonder it got 1.5 miles to the gallon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Even though it was not going to be a rat rig, I was planning an Allison in this.... ...but learned a little to late that it wouldn't quite fit without surgery to the already finished cab floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Man that's Loooooong maybe a big ford V8 would look good in there ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Man that's Loooooong maybe a big ford V8 would look good in there ? Well Dave, there will be a V in it, but not Ford. I was planning a Buzzin Dozen Detroit, but right now I'm playing around with something with even more cylinders!! I've been doing a little here and there mating two 8V71s together for a 16V71 like the Payhauler haul truck has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Wow Matthew that's going to be tight. But it looks great in there keep at it I would love to see it finished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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