Contest models that got skunked - show 'em!

[jaymcminn]

Well, I'll just throw this one in here. I entered this a couple of years back in Pembroke Pines and thought it would have done a little better than it actually did. Not that I'm complaining or anything, as I did take home my share of hardware from that contest, but I had pretty high hopes for this little sucker...

[Lunajammer]

'Cutting Edge' advances every year. The vehicles I won with in the 1980s are no longer competitive in today's contests. And I'm fine with that.

My experiences exactly. I used to be confident I'd place somewhere at each contest but winning builds have advanced to a point that, frankly, I'm not willing to go to so I would not even feel that good about a win if I felt I didn't deserve it. It doesn't change my enjoyment of participating.

If it helps Rob, sometimes the most memorable, most talked about, most photographed models at a show don't place. No awards for you, but a half dozen modelers went home thinking about doing something you did. And that goes for the rest o' ya.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Lunajammer

[Tom Geiger]

My experiences exactly. I used to be confident I'd place somewhere at each contest but winning builds have advanced to a point that, frankly, I'm not willing to go to so I would not even feel that good about a win if I felt I didn't deserve it. It doesn't change my enjoyment of participating.

If it helps Rob, sometimes the most memorable, most talked about, most photographed models at a show don't place. No awards for you, but a half dozen modelers went home thinking about doing something you did. And that goes for the rest o' ya.

And that's exactly the reason for NNLs. Everyone gets the enjoyment of participating and showing their work without the pressure of judging, winning and losing. In my book, if I meet someone at the show who really enjoys a model of mine, that makes my day, and I've made a new friend!

[Quick GMC]

I have never been to a mode show. I keep finding out about them after the fact and my schedule is hectic. I'd LOVE to go. If I had a model I felt was presentable enough to enter, that alone would be an accomplishment for me.

[sak]

Everyone has different tastes. Might be the subject matter. I dont even open any 69 camaro, 57 chevy,32 ford or 50 mercetc etc.. threads just because its seems all the same to me now. But thats just me. I probably missing some good stuff. But what gets my attention is stuff like the amc matador or any obscure stuff. Or a replication of a strange color combo. A mustang don't need to be grabber blue to knock your socks off. Try champagne gold or medium lime.

[Eric Macleod]

I have been the organizer and (for a while) the only judge in a small local model contest. I actually stopped my participation in the event in part because of the backlash from participants, some of which was probably very legitimate. I did learn a few things from participating on both sides of the table.

1. Nobody knows the real quality of a model better than the builder. My own models have been skunked by other models of my own that I only brought along because I thought they were neat, not because I thought they were great builds.

2. Judging is indeed subjective, a beautifully built abliet "blah" model just doesn't get noticed on a table of red, yellow and plum crazy models.

3. The judge does not know if you built a model strait out of the box or if you completed extensive modifications unless you tell them, preferably with extensive documentaton. i.e. Once, a judge asked me where I got the kit for my 1930 Duesenberg Rolston Victoria. When I told him there was no kit he simply did not believe me. While I won the box stock class (I was happy about that) the other participants were not pleased to see me with the trophy because, justifiably, my model was not box stock.

4. Judges do not know every detail about every kit nor do they know the difficulty producing a spectacular model (unless it is a Pyro Cord, or any Revell multi-piece bodied kit) which everyone seems to know about.

5. There are some models and participants who are so pleasing that their enthusiasm outweighs the quality of their builds. I KNOW this is controversial, but it happens. I once had a participant show a model for the very first time. He built it as an 8 year old some 45 years previously and successfully argued that it should be in the youth class (he was the only one in the class by the way). It was a neat model for being 40+ years old. Later, I was then confronted by a participant who was holding literally an armfull of awards. He was mad that I had shown "favortism" and he vowed to never return to my contest. Good riddance!

6. In fairness to everyone, the best models don't always win. I have passed over a spectacular model (and arguably the best model at the show) simply because the builder won best of show the previous three years in a row. I decided (and that builder agreed with me when I talked to him about it) that we would lose participants if they felt there was no chance anyone else could win Best of Show at that particular contest.

There are probably other things, and perhaps I have stirred up a hornet's nest, but those are a few of my

observations.

The models I have seen in this thread all look great to me. Maybe some of my observations account for the reasons they were overlooked?

Eric

Edited June 17, 2013 by Eric Macleod

[Tom Geiger]

6. In fairness to everyone, the best models don't always win. I have passed over a spectacular model (and arguably the best model at the show) simply because the builder won best of show the previous three years in a row. I decided (and that builder agreed with me when I talked to him about it) that we would lose participants if they

At most shows any model that wins a major award (first in category, best in show) is no longer eligible for awards at that show again. Most modelers I know wouldn't think of competing again with the same model.

While we're at it, my pet peeve is shows where the membership of the sponsoring club win the lionshare of the awards. My own belief is that you are either hosting an event or participating in an event. If you are hosting, your guests should win the awards. It sets an air of fairness. Even if the club members won the awards fair and square, it just doesn't look right. Same for judges. They'll say they are competing in categories they're not judging, but it just leaves them open for criticism. For the record, at NNL East the Tri-State members aren't eligible for awards. Our models are all on our club table, without numbers needed for voting on them.

[Danno]

Tom,

I don't think he meant the same model over and over. I think he meant the same builder won best of show three consecutive years.

I understand how that can stifle participation after awhile.

At Desert Scale Classic, we handle it a little differently.

The members of our host club, Cactus Car Modelers, are not eligible to enter the critically-judged DSC.

But, we have a separate and concurrent ( at the same time, Jim) club contest and display. Host Club Members enter that, and the spectators and DSC entrants judge the Club contest by Peoples' Choice style balloting.

That way, the hosts aren't competing with the entrants/guests, and the entrants/guests have a chance to get even with the hosts!

[Ramfins59]

At most shows any model that wins a major award (first in category, best in show) is no longer eligible for awards at that show again. Most modelers I know wouldn't think of competing again with the same model.

While we're at it, my pet peeve is shows where the membership of the sponsoring club win the lionshare of the awards. My own belief is that you are either hosting an event or participating in an event. If you are hosting, your guests should win the awards. It sets an air of fairness. Even if the club members won the awards fair and square, it just doesn't look right. Same for judges. They'll say they are competing in categories they're not judging, but it just leaves them open for criticism. For the record, at NNL East the Tri-State members aren't eligible for awards. Our models are all on our club table, without numbers needed for voting on them.

I totally agree with you on this Tom. For years, when I lived on Long Island (NY), I always asked that the members of the LIARS Club not enter their models in our Model Car Challenge show, but most of the members ignored that request. I felt that it did not look good if a LIARS member won any of the awards, and it might discourage other people from attending and/or participating in our show. Members who did not travel to other shows off of Long Island would enter our show as they felt it was their chance to enter a contest. There really was no way to stop them, short of kicking them out of the club. Even if we tried to "forbid" them to enter a model, chances are that they would have quit the club anyway.

I know what you mean about a sponsoring club's members winning the awards.... one club up in the northeast has had that "problem" for years... First Place this class, First Place that class, Best this, Best that, Best In Show... They really should get that under control. Granted, the best model in a class should win, however, let the people coming to the show have a chance to take home the Gold.

[Tom Geiger]

I don't think he meant the same model over and over. I think he meant the same builder won best of show three consecutive years.

I understand how that can stifle participation after awhile.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Tom Geiger

[Nick Winter]

I only compete for fun, these ones I have taken and not won anything for, doesn't bother me though, still had lots of fun those days anyway.

I don't have luck with my 32 fords I guess.

Nick

[sak]

Interesting theories.could it be possible that some badass models get snubbed outa spite. Because people know its better than the one they have...

[customsrus]

I entered this one at a local show a couple weeks ago and unfortunately it did not place. I was told by one of the people conducting the show that the people judging thought it was an out of the box build. I did take a few other builds and they all placed in their respective categories. Apparently they thought it was a 70 chevelle with painted bumpers and not a 2015 chevelle concept. I did have a great time at this show and I am not in anyway discouraged that this did not place, there was a lot of great build there that day. Maybe next time !!!!

[Ace-Garageguy]

This Chevelle of mine has been consistently overlooked, and (like customsrus) I've also been told some judges thought it was simply an out of the box build with painted bumpers and nice paint. It would be good to be judged by people who had enough knowledge of car design to recognize a 4" top-chop, and enough knowledge of model building to realize the level of difficulty in chopping this particular car. It would also have been nice had anyone bothered to actually read the data cards with the model that explained all of the mods, including the full-custom C5-R derived, road-racing chassis. But hey, it's not a perfect world, is it? So far, best it's done is a second in a minor hobby shop show. Lost out to a box-stock build of a Hurst Hairy Olds because the judges saw TWO engines in the Olds and didn't realize the OLDS was a straight kit build. Oh well.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[mikemopar70]

All the models i see here are beautifully built and looks great!!

But it's been hard not to mention that sometimes we compete against modeler's with 95% scatchbuilt and all machined metal parts that looks just awesome!

Modelers with machining skills, that make their models look juste like a real car (most of the time customs and race cars).

But to me, every modeler have something very interesting to show, and when i attempt to shows like NNL East, i'm not waiting to win something, only sharing with other modeler's and seeing very nice models on the tables makes me really happy.

About each model i look, learn me something new, or giving me an idea for a future project, and i think that's why i'm still hooked to this hobby, and i'm never discouraged, not being a winner!!

Lots of people are looking our models, and for general public that candy paint with lots of chrome and aluminium parts seem to be better because it's eye catching... But when you look closer all of the models on the tables, you can see some very nice craftamship hiding under somewhat ordinary looking car!!

Just like The 2015 Chevelle concept, i followed the wip on this one, and there's a lot of work on this one, and really well done, but if it's been painted a really flashing color, it must have catch the eye of everyone, so they could have seen all the work that have been done, but the stock concept vision, might have not been the same!! Because a Chevelle alway's looked good in red... (and to me you just scored, because it's so stock looking, general public didn't notice it's a concept, just like if G.M. has made this one!!)

If you want your model to stand out, paint it an uncommon color to catch the eye, but to me, all of you guys build awesome models and should keep your buildind just the way it is, no matter if it's overlooked in shows, real modleler's will notice all of the details and that's what counts, being a stand out is just a bonus.

I build models that i want, the color i want and i'm pleased with it, if someone likes it, that's good, if no ones talks about it, that's good too.

My models, most of the times are in stock colors, with stock or mild customized parts, and it's true that my Metallic. Orange 1962 pick-up maded people talk more about it than my other models and that was my bonus 2 years ago, but i built it this way, because i wanted it this way, not to make people talk.. but i keep building models my way, because i like it!!

Keep it on everybody..

Edited June 18, 2013 by mikemopar70

[caapa]

I`m very happy to read about matter „Judging in Competitions”. I learned a lot from the lotof comments and can better understand the work of judges. From which I didn`t have the best opinion.

Well I did know that judging is a subjektiv aktivity but sometimes I missed any objektivity totally. ( as for mentioned orange peel paint job on winning model, etc.)

Altough it was not begining so: at my first contest I won 6th and 2nd. As it was a jung event – second time organized – they was happy with my separate displayed collection of 1:75 sport- and conceptcars. My feeling was: Ok! They honored my little extra exhibition. But at the second-place announcement the organizer were surprized that I`m again the guy who got soon a 6th place. The best: they handed over a cup for 2nd and a diplom for 1st place ! Than I participated on more other and this contest again with much better models without any result. I was in Vienna at IPMS Austria event with the same no succsess. It was enought.

I saw that on all event were the winner and placed models of the other clubs members, one or two of organizers club perhaps. And it gone nicely around from event to event. Even the austrian IPMS contest showed the same method. For me as no member in any club – no chance.

By the other hand the models regarded as best ones were mainly full of decals and very colorfull, boxstock in the free category too. Scratch builts, opened doors and hoods or any additions and modifications were not winner.

I can aggree that it would be high time to make guiding for judges how much should be valued craftmanship, creativity, general appearance and quality and the effect „I like it” or”I dislike it”. Perhaps IPMS could be pioneer in this.

My „No Winner”:

[Jantrix]

I was told by one of the people conducting the show that the people judging thought it was an out of the box build.

I've also been told some judges thought it was simply an out of the box build with painted bumpers and nice paint.

Obviously judged by people who have no idea about car models. No one on this entire forum would think those are out of box.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Jantrix

[Austin T]

Obviously judged by people who have no idea about car models. No one on this entire forum would think those are out of box.

I agree. I can't tell you how many contests I've been to where someone walks into the vendor room and says "Who wants to be a judge?". You would think that they would be somewhat prepared.

[Tom Geiger]

Obviously judged by people who have no idea about car models. No one on this entire forum would think those are out of box.

I agree. I can't tell you how many contests I've been to where someone walks into the vendor room and says "Who wants to be a judge?". You would think that they would be somewhat prepared.

And these are the exact thoughts I had while reading the posts above. Sad part is, these are the things that drive people away from the hobby!

I used to be very into stamp collecting. This is a hobby that's 150 years old and is very organized and monied. Much like model shows, people build very specialized collections that involve a lot of research. We'd create custom pages to display them on. When you go to a big show, there are frames that hold the collections and they are judged on a checklist of criteria including your research and subject knowledge, down to the graphics and presentation.

They have an international organization, the American Philatelic Society (APS) that has a very strict judging standard and accredited judges. The exhibits are judged against a sheet that gives values to every category. You are competing against yourself. There are no first, second and third awards, there are gold, silver and bronze. Every display that is judged to have a certain point range is awarded the correct award at that show. So you may have two gold awards and five silvers, if the quality of the exhibits dictates. Within categories, the highest number won the category award, and best of show is the highest tallied exhibit. There were smaller shows that had no gold awards. At a smaller show in Pennsylvania, I won Best of Show with a silver award exhibit. At larger shows people would say, "Wow! That was a great show! They had 5 gold winners, 10 silvers and 15 bronzes!" Nobody would complain about the judges.

I can say from experience, that the judging was very consistent from event to event. I started out not winning anything, but used the judging sheets and coaching from judges and others to perfect my collection. Then I started winning bronzes at shows. It took me years to get to silver. I never did win a gold award. The judges were very knowledgeable and there was strict criteria and training. You needed to have a consistent silver collection to become a trainee. Then after a period of training, you'd progress to junior judge and up the chain. Nobody ever complained about the judging.

And that's the big problem with our hobby. We do not have any judging standards what so ever. It's up to each show to do what they want to do. And as we know, the actual results have varied.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Tom Geiger

[Brudda]

Great build!! Rob what kind of contest? IPMS,NNL or other? NNL shows are for car guys. They know cars and or have a cool 1:1 cars or both.NNL Events are very cool! I know IPMS as I have entered cars here in the west coast and phoenix. IPMS people are all about the quality of the build. There is a order. Is there any glue showing? Gaps showing? Are there any unwanted seams and pinmarks?All tires on the ground.Alignment is very important. Is the finish good?, either flat or gloss. Then, if all has been met ,this is when they will consider the build. At this time ,if there is a close tie, then details are looked at. Build quality is essential then detail. I have learned alot. My first build was a 32 ford that had so much detail that I thought It could not lose.Boy was I wrong!!!Then I met a guy named Dai and John. These guys have taught me everything I needed to know about IPMS.They are both national winners. With their help, I have 56 awards in 14 contests and I have just started to build. I have only 13 car builds to my name. The first 32 ford I built, has never entered another show. So my other 12 car builds are the ones that have won. 31 first places.6 best auto, and the rest of my awards are 2nds 3rds and best paint awards. This has happened in the last 2 years. My suggestion; if you are going to a IPMS show, is to hook up with someone who knows IPMS. I Hope this helps. Great modeling!!! Regards Bruce

[rustbucket82]

And that's the big problem with our hobby. We do not have any judging standards what so ever. It's up to each show to do what they want to do. And as we know, the actual results have varied.

I beg to differ, it is called the IPMS. That is the judging standard for this hobby.

[Custom Mike]

I entered this one at a local show a couple weeks ago and unfortunately it did not place. I was told by one of the people conducting the show that the people judging thought it was an out of the box build. I did take a few other builds and they all placed in their respective categories. Apparently they thought it was a 70 chevelle with painted bumpers and not a 2015 chevelle concept. I did have a great time at this show and I am not in anyway discouraged that this did not place, there was a lot of great build there that day. Maybe next time !!!!

John, I've had that same problem many. many times. When you make something look like that, people overlook it. I've got a pair of customs that haven't placed yet, the Firebird I can kind of understand (It's got a stubby nose), but the Ferrari gets moved out of the custom class almost every time. I've had to show judges the instructions to prove I modified the body! You'd think the Corvette engine under the hood would be a dead giveaway that it's not Enzo's idea of a Ferrari!

I really don't understand these next two, the Talledega is fully detailed, complete braking system, everything you'd think it would take to win, but nothing so far. The Fairlane has pulled down a 3rd place, but nothing else....

And my last two. the Earnhardt Tribute hasn't picked up anything, and neither has the Porsche. But all of these (Except the Firebird, she's retired) will be going to a contest this weekend in Sumter SC, so I may have good news on Saturday night, we'll see!

Edited June 19, 2013 by Custom Mike

[mnwildpunk]

Personally I love it I looked long and hard at it and the only thing I saw and it may just be the light playing tricks in the picture but when the hood is on,it appears to be a different shade idk if that is exactly the word i'm looking for but the best way to discribe it

[blunc]

Mike, that is an excellent blent of retro and late model styling on that Firebird.

I had heard that IPMS is (supposed to be) judged by learned modelers but I have the personal impression that most IPMS shows are mainly about the armor and planes with the cars seemingly an afterthought and being judged by persons that usually don't have the depth of knowledge that the GSC judges have exhibited. I may be mistaken in this impression but it's my impression. An example would be that an IPMS judge would know what details would be needed to produce an authentic Wild Weasel but may not know what details/mods would be needed to produce an authentic Lil Coffin (and which version of Lil Coffin...since there were more than one configuration it had been shown).

I can only relate that my time spent judging in Arizona contests that the judging teams were made up of persons that had a lot of experience and knowledge in the classes they were judging and lots of time was spent deciding best in show and all other master awards. I'm assuming(hoping) that most of the people that are still active in the Arizona model clubs are keeping these standards alive.

[Tom Geiger]

I beg to differ, it is called the IPMS. That is the judging standard for this hobby.

IPMS may have written standards but they are inconsistent from show to show. Many chapter shows are 'car unfriendly'. I remember having to put my light commercial vehicles in a class called "Motorcycles and Civilian Trucks". Depending on the chapter, they can be down right discouraging to anyone with 'non military wheeled vehicles". But the ironic part is that they welcome those who do fantasy sci-fi and monster figures with open arms!

Nor is IPMS beyond the issues reported elsewhere in this thread such as their own chapter members winning all the awards. I was at one where my trucks didn't win anything, but someone in the chapters wife won an award in that category with an unpainted body. And at the same show the two guys announcing the awards kept giving them to each other. Not a good appearance!

The only show in any arena I can say is truly judged fairly is GSL in Salt Lake.

I had heard that IPMS is (supposed to be) judged by learned modelers but I have the personal impression that most IPMS shows are mainly about the armor and planes with the cars seemingly an afterthought and being judged by persons that usually don't have the depth of knowledge that the GSC judges have exhibited. I may be mistaken in this impression but it's my impression. An example would be that an IPMS judge would know what details would be needed to produce an authentic Wild Weasel but may not know what details/mods would be needed to produce an authentic Lil Coffin (and which version of Lil Coffin...since there were more than one configuration it had been shown).

Since the armor and planes are their main focus, the judges are from those genres. Think about what would occur if you or I were asked to judge the military categories. We wouldn't even be able to identify the subjects, never mind know if they were modified and if that work is correct. And that's what happens when the armor guys are let loose on the cars! A couple guys from my clubs went to the local IPMS show this year and were chuckling as to what cars won awards.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Tom Geiger