Ace-Garageguy Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) The only problem I see is robots don't get paid and therefore don't pay taxes. And since the robots are probably made in China theres no tax dollars being generated from labor except for installations. No good can come from the idea of automating everything. What's really unfortunate is that so much of the American economy is now based on no-skill (burger joints, etc.) or low-skill (landscaping, etc.) service jobs. These generate very little contribution to GDP, taxes, job satisfaction, or possibilities for career advancement and attainment of what used to be called the "American Dream". They create a poorly-paid underclass that is becoming more and more of a drain on already stressed resources, both natural and governmental. There is something very wrong, and nobody really seems to much give a damm as long as they got theirs...and don't have to work too hard for it. Edited June 14, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 What's really unfortunate is that so much of the American economy is now based on no-skill (burger joints, etc.) or low-skill (landscaping, etc.) service jobs. These generate very little contribution to GDP, taxes, job satisfaction, or possibilities for career advancement and attainment of what used to be called the "American Dream". They create a poorly-paid underclass that is becoming more and more of a drain on already stressed resources, both natural and governmental. There is something very wrong, and nobody really seems to much give a damm as long as they got theirs...and don't have to work too hard for it. 'Nother 'Amen' for Brother Bill. Not only that, but those unmotivated lower tier workers want and expect all the trappings of being high-end, high-skilled (read that, 'highly paid') producers . . . ie, flashy cars, expensive 'luxury' condos, constant partying . . . so they go get the food stamps and subsidized housing and free government provided cell phones and service, and public socialized healthcare the rest of us pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 'Nother 'Amen' for Brother Bill. Not only that, but those unmotivated lower tier workers want and expect all the trappings of being high-end, high-skilled (read that, 'highly paid') producers . . . ie, flashy cars, expensive 'luxury' condos, constant partying . . . so they go get the food stamps and subsidized housing and free government provided cell phones and service, and public socialized healthcare the rest of us pay for. True but it is not all on the employees companies like Walmart play the game well and engineer it so some have to get food stamps and aid to just survive. Walmart is the worst thing that's happened to this country. Poor jobs and look at the volumes of goods that come from China and such. The sad things is as Bill said nobody seems to care what is heppening to us. But the day of reckoning will come and then they will care but it wil be too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 True but it is not all on the employees companies like Walmart play the game well and engineer it so some have to get food stamps and aid to just survive. Exactly. And all the landscaping companies around here (apparently the fastest-growing business type, if the number of trucks carrying mowers is anything to go by...just ahead of house painters) hire as many illegals as they can, pay them next to nothing...because they can't complain...and one such company I know of even owns rental properties (verging on slums) that they rent to the illegal workers for top dollar. Is this capitalism at its profit-minded best, or uninhibited greed run amok? Depends on who you talk to, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) The irony is the current business model doesn't have to be. Henry Ford realized that he needed to pay his workers enough, they could afford to buy the cars they were building. There was a two fold benefit more sales and pride in what they were doing. He wasn't doing it without reason. Sadly this concept has been lost. Edited June 14, 2015 by bobthehobbyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High octane Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Yes this country is experiencing many changes, and not all are for the best. In fact some are going to be very harmful down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Unfortnately we are partially responsible for this mess. We are all looking for the cheapest without considering the true cost of our actions. We all lament the loss of full service hobby shops however we go to Walmart to save a few bucks. The few bucks you save comes at the cost of convenience, full array of paints and supplies like evergreen plastic, and a knowledgeable staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) Unfortnately we are partially responsible for this mess. We are all looking for the cheapest without considering the true cost of our actions. We all lament the loss of full service hobby shops however we go to Walmart to save a few bucks. The few bucks you save comes at the cost of convenience, full array of paints and supplies like evergreen plastic, and a knowledgeable staff. Ah yes...and that, in a nutshell, pretty well defines all of today's business shortcomings. When a business (or a consumer's choice) is driven by nothing other than lowest possible cost, things like "service" and "quality" tend to fall by the wayside...yet those who only shop price complain and complain and lament their passing. Totally irrational. The irony is the current business model doesn't have to be. Henry Ford realized that he needed to pay his workers enough, they could afford to buy the cars they were building. There was a two fold benefit more sales and pride in what they were doing. He wasn't doing it without reason. Sadly this concept has been lost. Mr. Ford was a strong, highly motivated leader and innovator....unlike many of today's CEOs, who pride themselves on being effective delegators. Being good at delegating is NOT the same thing as being a leader. The widely-held belief in business today that executive management doesn't really need to know much about the particular industry it's managing, so long as it's capable of getting capable underlings to do the real work (and that a good upper manager is interchangeable into any business or industry) is a fallacy. A CEO or upper manager who doesn't understand the nuts and bolts of what his company does, just isn't in a position to know whether those people he's delegating to are competent, and whether they're giving him good information. So, when a company is essentially run by the legions of middle-management MBAs who specialize in nothing so much as cost-containment, without strong ethical and rational leadership from the top, we get what we're seeing a lot of now. Edited June 14, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Amen Bill. Truly sums this all up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobraman Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I don't know if anyone here ever watched a show called "Shark Tank " but every time they had an inventor or business person looking for investment capitol the first thing they would say if it was an American made product was " You can make it cheaper off shore". I am willing to pay more for American goods but they seem to be getting harder and harder to find. I fear we have gone too far down a road which we will never be able to go back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunkypeanutbutter Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 What they usually do with the fledgling business on there is export the production overseas until the company is singularly fiscally viable and able to support itself, then they bring production back to America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpier Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 i think the individual is responsible for his success but that doesn't irk me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Of course, broke a retaining clip one of my side marker lights replacing a burnout bulb, thats been out for at least three years, if not longer , should just let it be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Man, I'm irritated going into the "news and reviews" threads a reading nothing but how people can not wait for this or that kit to come out. This is particularly true with future Moebius kits. I go into those threads to learn about the kits themselves. Are they any good? What do they look like? What comes with the kit? Are there problems to watch out for? If it's an older kit, what has been changed since previous releases of that kit? And if somebody knows a release date for sure. I could care less if one is waiting for the kit to come soon. For the most part, we all are. And telling us about how your waiting for a kit doesn't make it get there any faster. When you got news, or a review, then go ahead and write about the kit. You can even write things about the kit that I may disagree with. But, in the mean time, I could care less that your sitting on pins and needles waiting for the kit. So am I. That's why I'm going to the "news and reviews" to read about the kit. The other thing, is people writing their posts in script here. I've brought this one up before. Read the posts written in script is tough on an iPad or other tablet. It might be fine on a regular computer screen. But, it just doesn't work on a smaller screen. Now true, this is my problem for using my iPad for this. But, I like to read what everybody has to say. And I'm sorry to say, but I'm not going to sit in front of my old computer, when I can sit in a comfortable chair with my iPad, in my living room and do the same thing. I have no problem reading post that are printed. Quit with the script please. Let me read what you have to say. (Unless your just going to tell me how anxious for a kit to show up, with nothing else to say.) Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High octane Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Well, I'm NOT waiting for any new kits to be issued or any to be re-issued as I have plenty to build at the rate I'm goin'. I'm also gettin' tired of "stock piling" kits as well. What I have already have, has taken enough room in my house and ca$h out of my wallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) .................. Edited June 18, 2015 by martinfan5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Its hot here Edited June 18, 2015 by martinfan5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I stand by my comments. Walmart is representative of what hass happened to this country. I think is safe to ssy that Walmart has been one of the leaders in outsourcing. You are right about blame its a shame the consumers are more concerned with saving a few pennies than buying American made goods. We are and will regret that poor judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpier Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 aren't Revell kits made in China? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I stand by my comments. Walmart is representative of what has happened to this country When we were kids our friends's fathers had jobs that pay nothing today, but were able to buy nice homes, have their wives home with the kids and buy new cars. I remember when I lived in Ohio in the mid 60s, the man next door sold suits at Sears. As kids we loved to say hello to him there. He was able to buy a new house in a new development with all the trappings of suburbia. My wife chimes in that her parent group included a supermarket butcher, a bread route man, and Mr Edwards next door was a bank teller. The kids all thought he was rich because he went to work on the train in a suit. I recently read that in the 1950s a local guy who was a construction worker had bought a brand new house for his family in my NJ town. He said that every month, one week's salary paid the mortgage. One week paid the groceries and other living expenses. One week paid for the cars, and the last week went into savings. So what has gone wrong? Well, companies like Walmart came in. They chewed wages down to nothing, and work the majority of their workforce part time with no benefits or paid time off. Even in professional environments in big name companies, everything has been outsourced to small service companies that do that dirty work. People aren't taken on as employees, but are considered "Temps" or are paid on 1099s because there is preferential tax treatment for them that way. And pensions have completely gone away. Funny thing, I recently read an interview with the guy who invented the 401K and he said he never intended for this to replace pensions, but to be an extra layer of savings on top of a pension and social security. He predicts absolute disaster in the coming years. It's a completely different situation in Europe. The governments are pro-employee. Everyone gets 30 days vacation to start. Presidential Candidate Bernie Sanders just proposed it be law that everyone gets a minimum of 10 days paid vacation. That's a start. Europeans are guaranteed full time employment for life and benefits. The company I work for outsourced a lot of things in the US, but not in Europe. The governments told them no. Doesn't this sound like America maybe 30 years ago? And as our government flounders, companies find ways to take advantage more. Obamacare for instance, Walmart, Target and a few other major retailers just dumped their benefits plans saying that their employees now have the "right" to buy their own benefits. Yea, right. The subsidies come from you and me. I found out that 40% of my monthly healthcare insurance bill, of which I pay 100%, goes to pay for Obamacare. Our government needs to reel in the retail world and companies like Walmart. They should be told by our federal government that they need to have the majority of their employees on full time status with benefits, and part timers should only be supplemental. I'm not talking the $15 an hour fast food thing, although Europe is more like that in wage scales. They simply just shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of people on a broad scale as they have built their empire. I read that the Walmart employee reliance on US social programs is equal to Walmart Corporation's annual profit. So basically you and I are subsidizing their deal. It's got to stop. Edited June 18, 2015 by Tom Geiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The sad thing is that the Walmart business model becomes the blueprint for other businesses. Other businesses have to follow to stay competitive. There is very little manufactured in the USA there is almost nothing made here. All to save a few pennies without taking into consideration of the true cost of those actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) AMT and Revell both manufacture in China. Edited June 18, 2015 by bobthehobbyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunc Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 at least two of the larger tech companies in Arizona are doing something similar to Walmart with regard to employees... they have "contract"/"temp" workers that are treated for the most part as "lesser" employees that can be let go at the drop of the hat and they don't have to pay severance or any other benefit that actual company employees receive. Very few temp workers get converted to full employee status due to this new employment model that fools management or the public into thinking there are less people making widgets than there really are. Being a second class employee does NOT engender any sense of loyalty to the employer and reduces the desire to help improve the company especially if there is no hope of being converted to full employee status. We really are our own worst enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 at least two of the larger tech companies in Arizona are doing something similar to Walmart with regard to employees... they have "contract"/"temp" workers that Temp employees and folks working on 1099s are a way of life in the tech field as well as engineering. The latest trend is to bring in Indian nationals on work visas to take those folks jobs. The work permits are supposed to be to import expertise we don't have, but companies are using this loophole to bring in cheaper workers and lay off the Americans. And they make the American workers train the replacements before they lay them off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.