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Let's Talk About Craft Acrylic Paints


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I've only painted one car successfully with craft acrylic paint. Covered it with Future. Not a very good job.

I'm spraying the cheap stuff you can buy at Michaels. The first color I was using was a dark yellow. I've tried painting with a darker red also. The darker red seemed to have larger particle sizes than the yellow. The yellow didn't seem to have too much orange peel but the red was really rough. Do some colors spray easier than others? Are the more expensive paints better quality and easier to use? I've tried many suggestions, air pressures, thinning ratios, thinning mediums and I'm still struggling.

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Let's talk. :) I'm just a novice, but I feel like I've already spent a few million hours learning to spray acrylic craft paints. :rolleyes: You can see the one model I've completed so far here...

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102013&hl=corvette

That's craft paint with Future as a clear coat. Attached are some pics of the kit I'm working on now, and a spoon I did a test spray on. These are all craft paints. The body is a metallic craft paint. It looks pretty good and it's not even been clear coated or polished. The spoon is painted with a high gloss craft paint, and it sure is glossy, and that's just the first coat.

What I've learned so far is:

1. Acrylic paints are all water based, but different brands are formulated differently and will spray differently. And yes, some colors will be thicker or thinner.

2. Metallics and Pearls are thicker and have little bits in them and can be more difficult to work with.

3. The airbrush you use makes the biggest difference.

Up until just recently I'd been using a Master dual action airbrush. It seemed like a real struggle to get the paint properly thinned and the pressure adjusted to the point where I'd get a good coat of paint. I finally gave up and bought a Paasche series H "external mix" single action airbrush. I decided on that one because I'd seen some very accomplished painters using it in their Youtube videos. The difference is like night and day. The Paasche is a pleasure to use. It has no trouble spraying whatever I've tried so far, and the results are much better and more consistent.

Hope this is helpful. Can you be more specific about the problems you're having?

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post-15274-0-60048400-1433057351_thumb.j

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From my experience in hobby & craft retailing, there are craft acrylic paints, and then there are craft acrylic paints. Some, such as Apple Barrel, are made for price (Apple Barrel is the cheaper line from the company that also makes Folk Art acrylic paints).

As a general rule, I still believe, the higher the quality of the acrylic paint, the more finely ground the pigments will be (the reverse is pretty much true as well).

Art

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I've only painted one car successfully with craft acrylic paint. Covered it with Future. Not a very good job.

I'm spraying the cheap stuff you can buy at Michaels. The first color I was using was a dark yellow. I've tried painting with a darker red also. The darker red seemed to have larger particle sizes than the yellow. The yellow didn't seem to have too much orange peel but the red was really rough. Do some colors spray easier than others? Are the more expensive paints better quality and easier to use? I've tried many suggestions, air pressures, thinning ratios, thinning mediums and I'm still struggling.

Personally, I gave up on airbrushing craft paints a LONGGGG time ago. They are just too hard to work with, and they're not created specifically for our hobby, but rather for a hobby that uses craft paints with brushes... or fingers... There are other acrylic paints that are much better for the purpose of plastic models - my fav being Aztek Airbrushables. However, they still don't give me the same kind of drop-dead finish I get with lacquers.

Edited by fseva
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Check out post and videos on youtube by Chris Chapman. He does a stellar job with craft acrylics and future clear coat. Everything you need to know is in his videos.

Yeah, his technique hinges on saving as much money as possible - he even recommends replacements for products that worked very well, just to save a couple of bucks. I recently tried every one of his recommended products, and they didn't do even 10% of what the old standbys did! For example, his replacement for Future - it looks like regular milky acrylic before it hits the surface, but it dries DULL/FLAT! Even a single coat of Future looks better! So, where is the money savings if you have to use twice the amount of product (and this is just an estimate - it could take a half-dozen coats of his currently recommended Future-alternative). Also, his procedure will require the use of a hair dryer... why? Because these paints must be thinned to the point where they are practically transparent to airbrush them, and to make up for paint coverage, you have to dry the paints artificially so you can add more coats and finally get decent coverage.

Edited by fseva
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3. The airbrush you use makes the biggest difference.

Up until just recently I'd been using a Master dual action airbrush. It seemed like a real struggle to get the paint properly thinned and the pressure adjusted to the point where I'd get a good coat of paint. I finally gave up and bought a Paasche series H "external mix" single action airbrush. I decided on that one because I'd seen some very accomplished painters using it in their Youtube videos. The difference is like night and day. The Paasche is a pleasure to use. It has no trouble spraying whatever I've tried so far, and the results are much better and more consistent.

I'll give you a dollar to a doughnut your Paasche simply has a larger needle/nozzle than the Master! That would make it easier to airbrush thicker paint!

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I'll stay with Tamiya's lacquers. Enamels and acrylics? Why mess around when lacquers work right every time?

Scott

Agree to an order of magnitude.

I also understand one cannot buff acrylic like they can enamel/lacquer and so far, I'm finding that buffing can add a great deal of quality to your work. You can buff a little, a lot or in between to fine tune whatever look you desire.

I'm also finding that the more layers of anything you apply to your model, the more detail is covered up. And in 1:24 which is small to me, an extra layer can hide or obscure those fine details.

So while I'm a noob to an order of magnitude, its only our hobby specific products for me. Then all I have to worry about is my performance and not the performance of the product.

Edited by aurfalien
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I'll give you a dollar to a doughnut your Paasche simply has a larger needle/nozzle than the Master! That would make it easier to airbrush thicker paint!

Oooh...doughnut! :P

Since the needle types are different I'm not sure you can do a direct comparison. In any case, the Master came with .3mm, .5mm and .8mm needles/nozzles, and I was using the .8mm...the smaller ones worked poorly or not at all. The Paasche came with .45mm, .64mm and 1.06mm needles/nozzles. I started with the 1.06mm, assuming I'd need the largest one for the craft paint. Turns out the 1.06mm sprayed too much paint and the .45mm works better, so that's what I'm using now. The Paasche also seems capable of spraying the craft paints without even having to thin them, although I'm still thinning them a bit so they'll self level nicely.

Acrylics are working for me and clean up is very easy...all I use is water. They are also much less stinky and toxic. If I were to use laquer I'd probably have to have a painting booth with a vent, and that's a hassle and expense I don't need. Some of us don't have money to spend on whatever we would like to have. Let's please remember this is just a hobby. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their mind. A question was asked and I related what my experience has been. If you're happy, I'm happy. :D

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Oooh...doughnut! :P

Since the needle types are different I'm not sure you can do a direct comparison. In any case, the Master came with .3mm, .5mm and .8mm needles/nozzles, and I was using the .8mm...the smaller ones worked poorly or not at all. The Paasche came with .45mm, .64mm and 1.06mm needles/nozzles. I started with the 1.06mm, assuming I'd need the largest one for the craft paint. Turns out the 1.06mm sprayed too much paint and the .45mm works better, so that's what I'm using now. The Paasche also seems capable of spraying the craft paints without even having to thin them, although I'm still thinning them a bit so they'll self level nicely.

Acrylics are working for me and clean up is very easy...all I use is water. They are also much less stinky and toxic. If I were to use laquer I'd probably have to have a painting booth with a vent, and that's a hassle and expense I don't need. Some of us don't have money to spend on whatever we would like to have. Let's please remember this is just a hobby. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their mind. A question was asked and I related what my experience has been. If you're happy, I'm happy. :D

I think we all understand Sidney.

No one should try to change your mind. Everyone has their own way of operating & that's cool.

Whenever a topic is started, you're going to get a myriad of advice & opinions & that's the whole point of a forum like this.

Even when 90% of what others say may not appeal to you, there's always that 10% chance of nice little "nugget" popping up that could be very useful.

You're right, Whenever you're using lacquers, it opens a whole new page on what's needed to operate.

If the acrylics are working for you, why change it.

Steve

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Agree to an order of magnitude.

I also understand one cannot buff acrylic like they can enamel/lacquer and so far, I'm finding that buffing can add a great deal of quality to your work. You can buff a little, a lot or in between to fine tune whatever look you desire.

I'm also finding that the more layers of anything you apply to your model, the more detail is covered up. And in 1:24 which is small to me, an extra layer can hide or obscure those fine details.

So while I'm a noob to an order of magnitude, its only our hobby specific products for me. Then all I have to worry about is my performance and not the performance of the product.

Multiple coats are one of the main reasons that I like to use automotive lacquers on my builds.

I typically will use 3-4 primer coats, 3 color coats, & up to 4 coats of clear on a build. 11 coats of paint is going right up to the edge as far as covering detail, but unless the detail is extremely fine to start with, I rarely have issues with it.

I have my reasons for all of those #s, but I won't go into them here.

The other reason I have for using lacquers is just the sheer enormity of color choices, And when using paints from sources such as MCW, the scale of the metallics is much more in line with 1/25th scale.

Steve

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This place is certainly full of "nuggets." :lol:

Even when 90% of what others say may not appeal to you, there's always that 10% chance of nice little "nugget" popping up that could be very useful.

This place is certainly loaded with nuggets. :lol:

Lacquers are not out of the question. As long as the weather is suitable I can take a rattle can outside or into the garage. I've gotten some good results from rattle cans, as long as I'm careful not to overdo it. As you say, there are some awesome colors available.

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Oooh...doughnut! :P

Since the needle types are different I'm not sure you can do a direct comparison. In any case, the Master came with .3mm, .5mm and .8mm needles/nozzles, and I was using the .8mm...the smaller ones worked poorly or not at all. The Paasche came with .45mm, .64mm and 1.06mm needles/nozzles. I started with the 1.06mm, assuming I'd need the largest one for the craft paint. Turns out the 1.06mm sprayed too much paint and the .45mm works better, so that's what I'm using now. The Paasche also seems capable of spraying the craft paints without even having to thin them, although I'm still thinning them a bit so they'll self level nicely.

Acrylics are working for me and clean up is very easy...all I use is water. They are also much less stinky and toxic. If I were to use laquer I'd probably have to have a painting booth with a vent, and that's a hassle and expense I don't need. Some of us don't have money to spend on whatever we would like to have. Let's please remember this is just a hobby. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their mind. A question was asked and I related what my experience has been. If you're happy, I'm happy. :D

Sorry for offending you, Sidney... I didn't mean to sound contentious; I was just sure that I had the reason for the difference in airbrushes (not being the brushes themselves, but rather the tip sizes). I can see, now that you've given the sizes, it was surely not that, that makes the Paasche better at spraying craft paints. Especially if you're using a .45mm setup, which is just a bit finer than my Patriot. And you don't thin very much? What in your opinion makes the difference then? Is it that the paint is being atomized when it's already in the air?

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Sorry for offending you, Sidney... I didn't mean to sound contentious;

You didn't offend me and I didn't think you were being contentious. I was trying to head off any potential conflict and should have just kept my big mouth shut. My apologies. :rolleyes:

As for why this airbrush works so much better, I'm very ignorant about the mechanics of all this. I think the two types of airbrushes are actually similar in that in both the air is blown past the tip of the needle, and that draws out and atomizes the paint. The instructions for the Paasche say to use 40psi for heavier paints, but I've been using 25-30psi and it works fine. Maybe one of the more experienced folk here know why one brush works better than the other.

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You didn't offend me and I didn't think you were being contentious. I was trying to head off any potential conflict and should have just kept my big mouth shut. My apologies. As for why this airbrush works so much better, I'm very ignorant about the mechanics of all this. I think the two types of airbrushes are actually similar in that in both the air is blown past the tip of the needle, and that draws out and atomizes the paint. The instructions for the Paasche say to use 40psi for heavier paints, but I've been using 25-30psi and it works fine. Maybe one of the more experienced folk here know why one brush works better than the other.

No problem, Sidney! I appreciate our banter!

In regard to the mechanics of airbrushes, could it be that the Paasche actually allows you to use the higher pressure? My airbrushes control the upper end of the air pressure my compressor can pump out - even if I have the compressor set to 40psi, the airbrush won't use more than 20psi. Consequently, my airbrushes can't spray the thicker paints that need 30-40psi to correctly atomize!?

I remember trying Auto Air (they actually recommend higher air pressure), and not being able to apply them without thinning them to practically transparency - I thought my problem was tip size - I bought a Badger Crescendo with a 1.5mm tip. That did make it easier to airbrush them, and they didn't have to be thinned that much, but I still wasn't that impressed - maybe, like you said, it was blowing too much paint, and I felt like I was losing control... hmmm... could be. Maybe that's the main difference between single and double action, where the latter has to restrict air pressure because of the internal mix. Sure would like an expert to weigh in here right now... :unsure:

Edited by fseva
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I've only painted one car successfully with craft acrylic paint. Covered it with Future. Not a very good job.

I'm spraying the cheap stuff you can buy at Michaels. The first color I was using was a dark yellow. I've tried painting with a darker red also. The darker red seemed to have larger particle sizes than the yellow. The yellow didn't seem to have too much orange peel but the red was really rough. Do some colors spray easier than others? Are the more expensive paints better quality and easier to use? I've tried many suggestions, air pressures, thinning ratios, thinning mediums and I'm still struggling.

Tom, can you weigh in here and be specific about the equipment you're using - internal or external, tip sizes, etc.? I think a lot of the things you're experiencing are very much like what I was experiencing, and I'd like to know if it's because of similar equipment...

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I have no idea if airbrushes limiting the air pressure you can use. Obviously they have a practical limit, but other than your comments I've not heard anything about a deliberate limit of 20psi. That actually seems kind of low...it's the minimum that Paasche recommends for the model I have. The maximum is "30 or more". The instructions for the Master airbrush helpfully (?) recommends 15-50psi.

Out of curiosity I compared the .5mm needle/nozzle from the Master with the .45mm needle/nozzle from the Paasche (see pic). In the attached pic they are, left to right, Paasche needle, Master needle, Paasche nozzle, Master Nozzle. They look about the same to my old eyeballs, though the taper on the needles is quite different.

Here's another opinion to throw into the mix. I believe this guy is spraying enamel...

http://www.internetmodeler.com/scalemodels/painting/Airbrushing-201-Painting-Solid-Colors.php

post-15274-0-63491800-1433208628_thumb.j

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I have no idea if airbrushes limiting the air pressure you can use. Obviously they have a practical limit, but other than your comments I've not heard anything about a deliberate limit of 20psi. That actually seems kind of low...it's the minimum that Paasche recommends for the model I have. The maximum is "30 or more". The instructions for the Master airbrush helpfully (?) recommends 15-50psi.

I visited the Badger website to do some more research. While I did not find a written spec saying that they top out at 20psi (which is generally what I use - therefore my confusion), but they did say that "normal operating pressure" is 30psi. However, to get that much pressure, your compressor obviously must be capable of producing more than 30psi, and most recent compressors can produce up to 60psi.

I remember doing a test of my brushes when I was using craft paints, and I recall how increasing the pressure beyond 20psi did not produce any noticeable changes in ease of spraying thicker craft paints/auto air, etc. Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that even with the operating pressure set to 30psi, I would still have had to thin the heck out of them to get them to spray.

BTW, in my checking I found that an external mix airbrush will work better for "higher viscosity materials", but that it produces a "coarser spray pattern" than an internal mix airbrush. All in all, it would seem that if you're stuck with craft paints, you've probably chosen the right airbrush!

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I use a Badger Patriot 105 with a 0.5 needle and tip. http://www.chicagoairbrushsupply.com/bapaaise.html

I'm thinking this is the wrong brush to try to spray this stuff. The Paasche H seems to be the preferred AB.

I also use a Badger Patriot! I found that it was not really capable of airbrushing thick paints without thinning them into practical transparency.

It would seem that if you're going to stay with the thicker paints, you'll probably have to go with some form of "external mix" airbrush (see my message to Sidney).

The solution to my problem with acrylics (after having purchased an airbrush with a 1.5mm tip) was to use thinner viscosity paints - and that became... for me... lacquers. Granted, I do have to be concerned with fumes, but I always used a spray booth, and I added a Honeywell air purifier to the spray area, which I can turn on only when it's needed, and that works for me.

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Wow, holy guacamole!

Reading this entire thread leaves the impression that air brushing in itself has many technical facets to it.

So much so that I deem it; ABBOK; Air Brush Body of Knowledge!

This is definitely an advanced topic.

And whoda thunk the simple act of model building could be so complex. Like anything else in life, there is more then meets they eye.

Kinda like Transformers...

Transformers, more then meets the eye...

... Transformers, like a pizza pie...

Edited by aurfalien
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There was a cool article on Tamiya's site regarding decanting there spray cans for use in an air brush. I suppose the popularity of it promoted the articles writing.

I've nothing to compare them to being that i just started but there lacquers seem pretty cool. I've a very easy and predictable time with em and they buff sweetly.

Seeing that I like tools, I may grow to get an air brush but for now, i like the simplicity of simply picking up a can and spraying. All I have to do is warm it up, shake it right and off I go.

I've been swirling it so the ball inside rides around the walls of the can versus an and up and down shaking. I then spray it close moving fast, they seem to have a high gloss this way. I then cover it up in a large semi garbage can sized tin can for about an hour and then after that let it off gas for a good day or 3.

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