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retro and rat rods, just dont get it.......


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You can always tell who pays somebody to fix or build everything, whole different attitude and not always the one you want to deal with from a parts guy, mechanic, or even a service writer's standpoint.

And it's always funny when they don't know anything about they're car. Like one guy I knew who didn't even know the size of his engine. :lol:

Edited by 91blaze
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Guys, this is looking like it might digress into something that I will have to remove (stress might). Opinions are fine, just watch your wording. I am not referring to any specific posts. Let's live and let live, please. Taste is subjective.

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Cool. Must look out for that at the newsagent.

It'll be usefull for that 'vette i'm building... :wacko:

Isn't the reason we (generic we - meaning humans basically) get together into like minded groups so that we can look down on the other groups?

Bikers look down on cage drivers and hair dryer riders.

Tuner guys look down on the dinosaur muscle car drivers.

Car modellers look down on military & train builders.

Australians look down on Kiwis & Poms.

And everyone hates the French.

And there's nothing wrong with that in my book. If you can't feel superior about something then you might as well crawl off into a hole and give up on life.

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The good thing about a rat rod is it can be built in any configuration. No one can say hey that's the wrong engine, or wrong fenders for that car. Anything goes. This can be applied to your model building. I'm a rat rod owner. I have a 1929 Essex with a 318 Chrysler engine, a 904 Chrysler torqueflite trans, and a 9" Ford rear. I've got a mustang II disc brake front end on it with power rack and pinion steering. Dodge caravan window regulators, etc. All of my parts were bone yard bought, no hollywood stuff here, built on a budget. Own it about 8 years now. Oh yeah, I'm also a biker, and I also model armor and have an HO train layout. I don't look down on anyone, we are who we are. I don't think I'm a frenchfry short of a happy meal for having this car. I like it, I built it and I'm well over 60 years old. I worked for Chrysler for over 40 years and I think I have enough knowledge to build something that is safe to operate yet have that jalopy look. Here's a picture. The car is a lot more ratier than it looks. Ken

DSCF0846.jpg

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to me, being the young guy i am, its a way for my generation and those right above me to get in touch with that nostalgia that we never got to experience like guys did that have been around that time and era. its cool to see what people can imagine and do with a car. some of these are innovations and can be considered rolling pieces of automotive art. much like models it give people a chance to do what they want to a vehicle and not have to worry about if its right or not, its their blank canvas. I love these cars and am always fascinated to see what everybody else has done to their ride and even what vehicles people turn into rat rods. its how some cars can go from total unrestorable clunkers to having a purpose again.

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And it's always funny when they don't know anything about they're car. Like one guy I knew who didn't even know the size of his engine. :lol:

Or the guy who told Dad the Long Ram (over the valve covers) Chrysler 383 in his high boy 5 Window Coupe (it was a Mopar, can't remember which one) as a small block when Dad asked him if it was a low (B motor) or raised (RB motor) deck............

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The good thing about a rat rod is it can be built in any configuration. No one can say hey that's the wrong engine, or wrong fenders for that car. Anything goes. This can be applied to your model building. I'm a rat rod owner. I have a 1929 Essex with a 318 Chrysler engine, a 904 Chrysler torqueflite trans, and a 9" Ford rear. I've got a mustang II disc brake front end on it with power rack and pinion steering. Dodge caravan window regulators, etc. All of my parts were bone yard bought, no hollywood stuff here, built on a budget. Own it about 8 years now. Oh yeah, I'm also a biker, and I also model armor and have an HO train layout. I don't look down on anyone, we are who we are. I don't think I'm a frenchfry short of a happy meal for having this car. I like it, I built it and I'm well over 60 years old. I worked for Chrysler for over 40 years and I think I have enough knowledge to build something that is safe to operate yet have that jalopy look. Here's a picture. The car is a lot more ratier than it looks. Ken

DSCF0846.jpg

Looks like a kool hot rod to me. I don't consider it a rat rod or a street rod. Thanks for showing it.

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The good thing about a rat rod is it can be built in any configuration. No one can say hey that's the wrong engine, or wrong fenders for that car. Anything goes. This can be applied to your model building. I'm a rat rod owner. I have a 1929 Essex with a 318 Chrysler engine, a 904 Chrysler torqueflite trans, and a 9" Ford rear. I've got a mustang II disc brake front end on it with power rack and pinion steering. Dodge caravan window regulators, etc. All of my parts were bone yard bought, no hollywood stuff here, built on a budget. Own it about 8 years now. Oh yeah, I'm also a biker, and I also model armor and have an HO train layout. I don't look down on anyone, we are who we are. I don't think I'm a frenchfry short of a happy meal for having this car. I like it, I built it and I'm well over 60 years old. I worked for Chrysler for over 40 years and I think I have enough knowledge to build something that is safe to operate yet have that jalopy look. Here's a picture. The car is a lot more ratier than it looks. Ken

DSCF0846.jpg

Ken, excellent post, especially the " the car is alot more rattier than it looks". why do you lean toward the "rat" style insted of cleaning it up and making a shiny street rod out of it. strickly budgit? i am glad you chimed in.

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to me, being the young guy i am, its a way for my generation and those right above me to get in touch with that nostalgia that we never got to experience like guys did that have been around that time and era. its cool to see what people can imagine and do with a car. some of these are innovations and can be considered rolling pieces of automotive art. much like models it give people a chance to do what they want to a vehicle and not have to worry about if its right or not, its their blank canvas. I love these cars and am always fascinated to see what everybody else has done to their ride and even what vehicles people turn into rat rods. its how some cars can go from total unrestorable clunkers to having a purpose again.

unfortunatly blueoval, those times are long gone and will never come back. i can remember actually going into the boneyards and pulling pieces ourselves, and paying boneyard prices. to build a rat rod today still has to cost a pretty penny cause any piece anyone has today, they think its ultra rare. it seams it would take a lot more searching for parts today than it did in the past. i am sure by comparison, its still dirt cheap.

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Guys, this is looking like it might digress into something that I will have to remove (stress might). Opinions are fine, just watch your wording. I am not referring to any specific posts. Let's live and let live, please. Taste is subjective.

I really like this, do as I say,not as I do, no name, only 5 post,no location, this MIGHT be a phantom mod.

Edited by MODERATOR
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I think I get it now. With a rat rod, you can actually drive and enjoy without worrying about the value. They're generally not "trailer queens" at the shows that really don't ever get driven or even really move under their own power. The paint doesn't have to be perfect, they don't have to be shiny, but they're still rolling pieces of art.

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I think I get it now. With a rat rod, you can actually drive and enjoy without worrying about the value. They're generally not "trailer queens" at the shows that really don't ever get driven or even really move under their own power. The paint doesn't have to be perfect, they don't have to be shiny, but they're still rolling pieces of art.

Not really. Most "rat rods", in case you haven't ever seen any or in case you haven't been paying attention, can't actually be driven for anything other than posing, because they run poorly and stop even worse. They vibrate, rattle, shake, stink, overheat and leak because the builders didn't think actually understanding how a car operates is a pre-requisite to building one. REAL HOT RODS actually operate as cars: they go, stop, steer, etc. REAL HOT RODS can still be built from scrounged parts, but they pay attention to things like good welding, proper mechanical function, and safe engineering.

We've got some traditional cars in town, REAL HOT RODS, in primer and built with junkyard small-block GM, Ford and Mopar V8 engines, junkyard 3 and 4 and 5-speeds, scrounged Ford 9" rear ends or Chevy 12-blots, etc. They are NOT SHINY, but they're NOT CARTOON JUNK either. They actually WORK AS TRANSPORTATION, and the owners and builders of these CAREFULLY CRAFTED CARS hate having their vehicles referred to as "rat rods" by ignorant watchers. HOT RODS and RAT RODS are two different things. Hot rods work. Rat rods are semi-functional caricatures of hot-rods.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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Not really. Most "rat rods", in case you haven't ever seen any or in case you haven't been paying attention, can't actually be driven for anything other than posing, because they run poorly and stop even worse. They vibrate, rattle, shake, stink, overheat and leak because the builders didn't think actually understanding how a car operates is a pre-requisite to building one. REAL HOT RODS actually operate as cars: they go, stop, steer, etc. REAL HOT RODS can still be built from scrounged parts, but they pay attention to things like good welding, proper mechanical function, and safe engineering.

We've got some traditional cars in town, REAL HOT RODS, in primer and built with junkyard small-block GM, Ford and Mopar V8 engines, junkyard 3 and 4 and 5-speeds, scrounged Ford 9" rear ends or Chevy 12-blots, etc. They are NOT SHINY, but they're NOT CARTOON JUNK either. They actually WORK AS TRANSPORTATION, and the owners and builders of these CAREFULLY CRAFTED CARS hate having their vehicles referred to as "rat rods" by ignorant watchers. HOT RODS and RAT RODS are two different things. Hot rods work. Rat rods are semi-functional caricatures of hot-rods.

That's the worst stereotype I've ever heard. The guys I personally know who have rat rods made them perfectly functional and safe. They may not win any races, but they go, stop, steer, etc perfectly fine. Not all rat rods are death traps like you all make them out to be.

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There are some interesting posts here. Most are simply restating what Harry said on the first page, that some people like chocolate and some like vanilla ice-cream. Personally I don't understand Pro-street or Pro-touring but I appreciate a nice looking machine that is well appointed and has a great stance. Even tho I would never consider building one in 1/1 or in scale.

As for the term "Rat Rod", it started out as a rebellion against the big dollar billet rods of the late 80's/early 90's. The term being stolen from the 70's trend of "Rat Bike", which also had the same premiss. (Check out some of the show bikes of the 70's and you will understand.)

The name "Rat Rod" was coined by the brother of Alex Xydias of "Shifters" fame, was referring to what we now consider a "Retro Rod".

The Rat Rod today however has become a caricature unfortunately. Like all trends, be it Vans, Roadsters, Showcars... there are always a few creative persons who love to push the envelope to the point of ridiculousness. The result of which are threads like this asking "why"?

Frankly, a trend that hangs around for as long as this one (going on 10 years now) tend to fade slowly or not at all. So I suggest those detractors who like shiny and chorme, just "deal with it"!

Edited by Jairus
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lt's starting to sound like semantics to me. apparently, if you are a fan of rat rods, then call it a rat rod. lf your not a fan, call it a hot rod. This has become a matter of opinon rather than fact. l can see from what l've read here that the only TRUE difference between a rat rod & a hot rod is who owns it or who is commenting on it.

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lt's starting to sound like semantics to me. apparently, if you are a fan of rat rods, then call it a rat rod. lf your not a fan, call it a hot rod. This has become a matter of opinon rather than fact. l can see from what l've read here that the only TRUE difference between a rat rod & a hot rod is who owns it or who is commenting on it.

Semantics indeed, because words actually have meanings. Perhaps the terms haven't been sufficiently defined. My humble attempt:

A traditional or retro hot rod is a car built with an assortment of parts from various sources with an emphasis placed (hopefully) on mechanical superiority and high-performance on a budget, which was the goal of the original hot-rodders. A finished appearance, shiny paint and upholstery were and are desired, but secondary.

A rat rod is much like a traditional hot rod in some ways but the primary emphasis is on a visual rebellion against high-dollar trailer-queen "street rods", and visual attention getting shock-value. Mechanical excellence and high performance are decidedly secondary.

PS. I don't mean to offend anyone, or to imply that rat-rods aren't cool or worthy expressions of automotive creativity. An it was certainly unfair of me to imply that ALL rat rods are unusable junk. As 91blaze said, that's an unfortunate stereotype and I'd like to apologize for making it. There are indeed well-built and drivable rats, and I should know better than to bash anyone's freedom of expression. The truth is, as I've said before, I LIKE some rat rods.

HOWEVER, there ARE differences between the two genres, as surely as there are differences between pro-street and pro-touring, for example, and considerable argument could conceivably be avoided if the differences between the types, and the definitions were more universally understood and agreed upon.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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Semantics indeed, because words actually have meanings. Perhaps the terms haven't been sufficiently defined. My humble attempt:

A traditional or retro hot rod is a car built with an assortment of parts from various sources with an emphasis placed (hopefully) on mechanical superiority and high-performance on a budget, which was the goal of the original hot-rodders. A finished appearance, shiny paint and upholstery were and are desired, but secondary.

A rat rod is much like a traditional hot rod in some ways but the primary emphasis is on a visual rebellion against high-dollar trailer-queen "street rods", and visual attention getting shock-value. Mechanical excellence and high performance are decidedly secondary.

Yes, words do have meanings... but the problem is they sometimes have different meanings for different people!

Yours are pretty good definitions, but when the two are blended together into one car (as is sometimes done), things can get a little fuzzy.

Really, though, arguing about what the term "rat rod" means is about as pointless as arguing about what the term "muscle car" means, because if you ask ten people, you'll probably get ten different answers.

I don't think there is any one iron-clad, crystal-clear, no-doubt, we-all-agree-on-it definition of "rat rod." Like beauty, it's in the eye (and mind) of the beholder. So like I said way back at the beginning of this thread in answer to the original question, why over-tax brain cells trying to understand why some people like stuff that you don't like? Just like what you like, let others like what they like, and don't spend so much time and effort trying to rationalize people's likes and dislikes, because it can't be done anyway!

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This is not much different than calling a different type car a custom or a kustom or customized. We all have our own vision of what they are, and they frequently differ in our mind view. Some people used to say "Real hot rods don't have fenders".... but many others differ with that 'take' on it.

It doesn't matter what it's called - I know a rat rod when I see it (according to my own vision of one, of course).

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I'm going to step out of this one. It's starting to turn into a ***t flinging discussion, but I'll twist it a little before I leave. Truthfully I think most of the stirrers here never had, never built, and never will own a street rod. They're usually the loud ones with the sore opinions. This is what's in my garage, I ain't ashamed and they're daily safe drivers. What's in yours? Thanks all. Ken

073.jpg

DSCF0846.jpg

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