Biscuitbuilder Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 I started this project a couple of weeks back, by making my own channel section frame rails from styrene (none of the commercially available channel stock has the right dimensions, and even so, Evergreen and Plastruct styrene channel's just too weak and flexible to suit me). Last weekend, I laid up a chassis jig, made from heavy sheet styrene with locating blocks of Evergreen strip styrene for positively locating, and holding the frame rails in exact position for installing the crossmembers. Jig with completed chassis set in place: Completed frame with roughed in '27 T Touring body, cut down to a "Bobtail": Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 2, 2008 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 Part II! I like the dropped front axle from Revell's '29 and '31 Model A Ford kits, for their accuracy and overall look, but man are they both delicate, and fiddly to assemble! I removed the front spring from atop the dropped axle, and repositioned it behind the I-beam section, as is the standard mounting for a '36-'48 Ford. This meant making brass locating pins from .015" brass rod, set into .016" holes drilled with pinvise and numbered twist drill (hold your breath time, look angrily at one of those drills, it snaps!). As nearly always, in my experience, the kit tie rod is either broken upon opening the box, or will break easily with handling, I replaced it with one made from 1/64th inch brass rod, set into appropriately drilled holes in the plastic tie rod ends. Here's the results to date: Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mademan Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 dang!! that looks great so far! Ive attempted to make a few scratch frames... but generally give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_nigrelli Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 nice; and timely for me. any chance of a picture from the underside at the rear of the front x showing how you did the spring? thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 2, 2008 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 nice; and timely for me. any chance of a picture from the underside at the rear of the front x showing how you did the spring? thanx Not sure what it is you are looking for, but a quick description might work: The shackles of the Ford transverse spring are those angled bits on the Revell Model A spring that point upward from the ends of the spring leaves at about a 45-degree angle. The kit axle has the spring molded as a part of it, with the front spring perches being those curved bits that reach to the upper ends of the spring shackles. The spring perch needs to be cut away from the spring shackles, and then that area of the shackles filed and sanded smooth (the top of each spring shackle on the kit spring is rounded--think of it as being like a half-round shape) and smoothed, to get rid of any file marks. If you look at the spring from either front or rear, you can see small round ejector pin marks at the top of each shackle. This area is what I drilled into, as in front to rear when looking at the spring from the top, with a .016" numbered drill in the pin vise (not all the way through, a 32nd of an inch deep into the plastic is deep enough!). Then, use some .015" brass rod (available in the model RR section of a good LHS, or from Walthers, perhaps also Micro Mark Tools) to make locating pins which can be set into the drilled holes with CA glue (gap-filling, please). These need to be longer than necessary when installed, they can be clipped off shorter later--but are very hard to stretch if too short to start with. Make sure that the brass pins are perpendicular to the front surface of the spring in all planes. The next step on this one was to mark the axle itself to show where the locating holes in the I-beam section needed to be drilled (don't worry, the channel of the I-beam is longer than the length of this spring, including the shackles) I then CA'd a length of .030" Evergreen styrene rod stock into the channel of the I-beam section of the axle, on the back side, and once hardened, simply trimmed and filed this down to just above the flanges of this section. Center these bits of styrene rod on the marks made showing the centers of the tops of the shackles. From there, it was a simple matter to drill a .016" hole in the center of each stub of .030" rod stock, and if you've been careful along the way, the locating pins will slip right into the modified axle--and once CA glue is used to attach the spring to the axle, you are there. To get a better understanding of how this looks, just take a look at the front axle/spring assembly in say, Revell's '40 or '48 Ford kits--that's where the idea came from. Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojaveRacer208 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Very Cool! The biggest gap in the list of car models never done in kit is the 27 Ford roadster. The touring, pickup (Ala Kart cab) and even a fire engine have been done, but a roadster has not, although intention to make it has been announced a couple times. I think Tim Boyd does one in resin though and someone else does a drag roadster with the fenders, but that one is like a funny car. The coupe hasn't been done either, but it isn't too popular with rodders. I just today saw a cool drawing of a 27 coupe as a rod though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_nigrelli Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 thanks for the "brief" description. i have a pretty good idea now. there is a fantastic article in SAE february 92 pp 55-57 "Unfinished T" by Kirk Bell. the builder, Steve Catron, carved & vacuum formed a '27 Ford Roadster in 1/25th scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 Very Cool! The biggest gap in the list of car models never done in kit is the 27 Ford roadster. The touring, pickup (Ala Kart cab) and even a fire engine have been done, but a roadster has not, although intention to make it has been announced a couple times. I think Tim Boyd does one in resin though and someone else does a drag roadster with the fenders, but that one is like a funny car. The coupe hasn't been done either, but it isn't too popular with rodders. I just today saw a cool drawing of a 27 coupe as a rod though. Ala Kart's cab, however, isn't completely '27 T. It's a Model A Ford roadster back to the B-posts, with a back panel adapted from a '27 T Touring car. I did, as my very first resin body shell, a '27 T roadster, with trunk section, by reworking an AMT '27 T touring, with a scratchbuilt trunk section. However, that one was done from line drawings, which while decent, were only as good as they went. Perhaps now that I have a lot more pictures and references for this body shell, I might have to revisit that body shell again, but this time it would be just for my own use. Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojaveRacer208 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Ala Kart's cab, however, isn't completely '27 T. It's a Model A Ford roadster back to the B-posts, with a back panel adapted from a '27 T Touring car. ... Biscuitbuilder You are, of course correct. I had that thought of the Ala Kart as I was typing, but later remembered it was not really correct. Barris cobbled it together. Rather well too, I must say, although I never was a "Kustom" guy. The cab (less the "scoop" shape on the cowl from the hood) looks great and I bought one of the re-issues to use it for a hot rod. A "27 pickup" is what I have in mind, possibly even putting a vacuform rear cab wall together with a 27 touring cowl and front doors...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbwelda Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 richard, this poster biscuitbuilder, is/was the owner of all american models, source of the 27 t i have posted under my lakester thread, and i assume thats the body he is describing above. just wanted to note that since you asked where i got the shell in my other thread. i wish these were still available and also the MGBGT he cast as well; there was actually a conversation i overheard at NNL this weekend bemoaning the fact the MGBGT was no longer available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maliburacr Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 What glues are you useing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 What glues are you useing ? Bud, Most of the chassis work to this point has been done with Goldberg SuperJet (medium viscosity CA glue) used with Bob Smith Accelerator. I like using this sort of glue where there is filling to be done that isn't in a large enough area to warrant any sort of putty, such as down the outsides of the frame rails (the rails are made from .040" by .125" styrene -- the web of the channel section -- and .020" by .080" for the flanges of the channel stock -- ready made channel styrene doesn't have flanges near wide enough, and the stuff is way to flexible to suit me), and all the joints for the rear kickup. Note in the pics that I used some brass rod to secure the rear crossmember at the ends--drilling a joint like this after it's been glued, then packing some CA into the drilled hole, followed by pushing the brass rod into the hole (then clipping away the excess, filing and sanding it smooth) makes for an extremely sturdy butt joint in a place like this. Beyond that, WeldOn #3 gets the call for most of my assembly and detail work. Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojaveRacer208 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 richard, this poster biscuitbuilder, is/was the owner of all american models, source of the 27 t i have posted under my lakester thread, and i assume thats the body he is describing above. just wanted to note that since you asked where i got the shell in my other thread. i wish these were still available and also the MGBGT he cast as well; there was actually a conversation i overheard at NNL this weekend bemoaning the fact the MGBGT was no longer available. I learned that "biscuitbuilder" is Mr. Anderson last nite as I looked through a number of other threads. I'd like to make it up there to the NNL West sometime, just as I suppose you would like to make it down here for an SCTA meet at El Mirage Dry Lake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 I learned that "biscuitbuilder" is Mr. Anderson last nite as I looked through a number of other threads. I'd like to make it up there to the NNL West sometime, just as I suppose you would like to make it down here for an SCTA meet at El Mirage Dry Lake... Mr? Does that mean I have to wear a necktie, shave every day? No Way!!!!!! Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelo Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Wow, Biscuits doing a street rod?! I am going to enjoy watching this. Great start so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share Posted March 8, 2008 Wow, Biscuits doing a street rod?! I am going to enjoy watching this. Great start so far. I give up! When Gregg fixes this forum, I will post more pics, until then, I will have to use the other magazine forum. Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 Just so nobody thinks I've given up on this one, I haven't. The project is in the engine phase right now (having the engine and transmission at least sub-assembled is pretty critical to determining the length of the torque tube, and rear radius rods. Not much to show yet, but the basic engine block is built, to fit the Frontenac DOHC chain drive 16-valve head from the AMT '27 T kit, still have to add the skirting to the lower block, which is the top of the crankcase, then build up the oil pan, add a flywheel housing to the rear, and the accessory drive system to the front (for the waterpump and magneto). Pics when it gets a bit further along. Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflame Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Can't wait to see more Art - I always enjoy following your builds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Engine underway!!!!! I have been enamored with the Frontenac 16-valve chain drive DOHC cylinder head that Louis Chevrolet produced in the 1920's for the Model T, and decided early on that this would be the engine for the '27 T street rod. However, two things pushed me away from using a Model T block--first, that engine block was made, by Ford, to work only with their famed, and contankerous, planetary transmission, which doesn't really lend itself to high powered applications; and second, there just isn't any really good Model T engine out there in scale--too much of the details are molded in place, so...... In looking for references, I found pics of a Johnny Gerber Fronty engine. Gerber cast up a new iron block for Ford Model T internals, but a much more conventional (for the 20's, anyway) layout, with a bolt-on flywheel housing, making it perfect for adapting Ford V8 bellhousing and tranny. Here's the engine, with scratchbuilt block and oil pan. The AMT Frontenac head with its cam covers, and the camshaft chain drive housing are used, but the chain drive housing was revised in order to add in the upper water outlet that AMT completely missed. This piece will be polished aluminum, so it had to be very smooth, and that meant getting rid of the molded on bolt detail, cleaning up the rest of the housing, then adding a scratchbuilt water outlet, adding that to the housing. Also, I filled in the back of this unit, as the real ones are closed up entirely, to keep the oil where it needs to be. Still to add is the oil pump, which goes on the front of this housing, as well as the front main bearing housing on the front of the oil pan, the rear main housing, and the cast-on gussets down the sides of the pan (the oil pan on this engine was cast aluminum). Also, need to add bolt details to the water jacket access plates on the sides of the block yet. Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Kron Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Lovely, superb, wonderful! I'm sure you've been there already but here's a link to some shots of a completed Gerber Fronty: http://museumofspeed.net/Collections/Engines/E027.shtml . Looks like you've pretty much nailed it. Looking forward to the completed model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Lovely, superb, wonderful! I'm sure you've been there already but here's a link to some shots of a completed Gerber Fronty: http://museumofspeed.net/Collections/Engines/E027.shtml . Looks like you've pretty much nailed it. Looking forward to the completed model. Yup, that's where I got the idea! Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Kron Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 I nearly forgot. What are your thoughts regarding the magneto? I'm building a Riley 4-port Model A block and would like to use a period magneto, preferably mounted on the side of the block - perhaps a Bosch or similar - and am comtemplating a scratch build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Mike Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I learned that "biscuitbuilder" is Mr. Anderson last nite as I looked through a number of other threads. I'd like to make it up there to the NNL West sometime, just as I suppose you would like to make it down here for an SCTA meet at El Mirage Dry Lake... Hey, Racer! I learned that same thing, but was puzzled: YAMCA club allowed that Art had passed away when he ceased production. We were saddened, for loss of a nice gent; but also for the loss of such a talent! I bought a '27 Roadster body with matching Deuce frame; racecar nose w/hood was nicely done. I have the real article: no less than five 1:1 '27 T's, all hot rods. The fidelity-to-scale on the Roadster body is excellent. The '32 frame is arguably the best seen so far. I have an accurate 1:1 frame jig, guys, and I measure 'em. Thank the Creator of the Universe we have you back, Art! Welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 I nearly forgot. What are your thoughts regarding the magneto? I'm building a Riley 4-port Model A block and would like to use a period magneto, preferably mounted on the side of the block - perhaps a Bosch or similar - and am comtemplating a scratch build. It's getting a magneto, the almost generic sort that looks like a miniaturised mail box (horseshoe magnets), that will be located inline with a centrifugal water pump driven off a gearbox to the righ to the front of the block. Water pump and mag will be on the same accessory drive shaft, very much like a lot of engines from the 'teens and twenties were, particularly the Duesenberg Model J. Speedway Motors' Gerber blocked Fronty T has this sort of setup, and it really trips a trigger for me. Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Well, it's just about ready to go up on wheels! Engine now has mounts in the chassis (after a few fits and starts!), bellhousing and tranny can be mounted up, torque tube is shortened and fixed to the "Banjo" center section of the rear axle--Ford parts are so much fun to work with! Here's this week's pic of the project: Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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