In box pictures of new Tamiya 1:12 Enzo......

[Chuck Kourouklis]

It's based on that, Harry, but no - this is a full assembly kit with all the parts separate, as opposed to that pre-finished, mostly assembled model in the link.

That is the "semi-assembled" model Creative Explorer, Ghostmech, and I were talking about earlier.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Chuck Kourouklis

[Harry P.]

Right, I understand that it's mostly assembled. But is it a "semi-assembled" version of the kit? Or a completely different item?

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Actually rather the same, from the looks. The monocoque and the suspension bits look identical to what we get in the kit

I'm guessing that the model in your link had diecast components like the floor pan and engine, and ABS body panels, that are now standard polystyrene in the kit. I think the kit's photoetched components are new too.

Beyond that, we may have very much the same model. The sprues for many of the components aren't quite so "prettied up" as we're used to seeing in Tamiya models conceived from the start as assembly kits, for example.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Chuck Kourouklis

[Scott - Elm City Hobbies]

Too many who are against this kit are saying it costs $600 and they would never pay that kind of money are not really being honest. I bought this kit at an exchange rate of $288.00US and I suspect when the dust settles, you will find it in the low 300 dollar range at the bigger online hobby outlets in the US. Anyone paying $600.00 for this kit are a bit foolish.

Problem is, Tamiya has set the price for the US, MSRP is $600, and dealer cost on them from US suppliers are in the $360 range, so if US mail order is buying them from US suppliers, they won't be anywhere near the $300 range selling them, probably bottom line would be $399, and even then they aren't making much on.

I want one....badly, but even at a $360US dealer cost, I can still buy it "retail" from HLJ with the shipping and it comes in cheaper (mind you not much) than getting it from my suppliers. Might have to "activate" my dealer account with HLJ that they offered me and see if I can get it even cheaper....although I see that they are now sold out!

Edited April 6, 2012 by Scott - Elm City Hobbies

[Harry P.]

Actually rather the same, from the looks. The monocoque and the suspension bits look identical to what we get in the kit

I'm guessing that the model in your link had diecast components like the floor pan and engine, and ABS body panels, that are now standard polystyrene in the kit. I think the kit's photoetched components are new too.

Beyond that, we may have very much the same model. The sprues for many of the components aren't quite so "prettied up" as we're used to seeing in Tamiya models conceived from the start as assembly kits, for example.

I would assume these two items (the "semi-assembled" version and the kit) were conceived and engineered as part of the same process, but I find it odd that there are significant differences between the two. Actually I find it odd that the "semi assembled" version is being marketed at all, but whatever. I'm sure they had their reasons.

Interesting. Thanks, Chuck.

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Sure thing, Harry. All I can tell you is that the semi-assembled version in that link has been on the market for a few years now, and their diecast F50, some time before that.

It would seem to me that any measure of foresight would have had them planning a kit version from the start. But I halfway wonder if this kit didn't come about after the fact - maybe as a result of popular demand - based on the comparatively jagged tree layout for the dirty bits, and the eight years elapsed since the built model was introduced.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Chuck Kourouklis

[deja-view]

The Tamiya Enzo looks like a nice, challenging kit, but I can't understand why Tamiya would put all that into a car with no "history". There are numerous Ferrari subjects that are historically significant and would be far more desireable...especially in that price range. Good resin 1/12 Ferraris with race history are in that price range, but have disappointing detail (except for the wire wheels). Even the F40 is not exactly a high interest car compared to the really amazing Ferraris that were raced or marketed as GT supercars. Same with Porsches.

As far as the comparison with the Pocher F40 and TR....not really any there. The TR that I spent countless hours cutting out the vents and other "should-have-been-open" areas is a nice subject, and now that there are many aftermarket parts available, is a mediocre kit at best. I had an F40 and sold it because it was just too much work to get it up to a fully detailed model. The only worse attempt at newer cars by Pocher was the Porsche 993. I hope the Tamiya Enso doesn't require all the scratchbuilding and extra aftermarket parts that those Pochers do.

And, the Pocher "classics"? Not so much. I have had several, but only built the Mercedes 500k(?) all the way through. I had to add real leather because that seat vinyl krap was....krap. The radiator shell and other stainless metal parts were horrible..should have been chromed from the start. Pocher paid me to build the Mercedes for the Blackhawk Museum back in the '90's, and I had to constantly bug them for replacement parts. The one I really liked was the Alfa racer in white and blue. But,,,much like the others...the plastic body parts were warped and just didn't fit without a lot of dickering. I sold it (them) after getting disgusted. Too bad because I really like the look of the car. It would have made a really cool street rod!

To me, there are too many better kits of better subjects out there in that price range...and less. The Enzo? Eh!

Oh...someone mentioned the Protar F40. I had both the solid body and the clearbody. Neither were worth the effort or the cost ($100+).

Edited April 7, 2012 by deja-view

[Ghostmech]

The Tamiya Enzo looks like a nice, challenging kit, but I can't understand why Tamiya would put all that into a car with no "history". There are numerous Ferrari subjects that are historically significant and would be far more desireable...especially in that price range. Good resin 1/12 Ferraris with race history are in that price range, but have disappointing detail (except for the wire wheels). Even the F40 is not exactly a high interest car compared to the really amazing Ferraris that were raced or marketed as GT supercars. Same with Porsches.

As far as the comparison with the Pocher F40 and TR....not really any there. The TR that I spent countless hours cutting out the vents and other "should-have-been-open" areas is a nice subject, and now that there are many aftermarket parts available, is a mediocre kit at best. I had an F40 and sold it because it was just too much work to get it up to a fully detailed model. The only worse attempt at newer cars by Pocher was the Porsche 993. I hope the Tamiya Enso doesn't require all the scratchbuilding and extra aftermarket parts that those Pochers do.

And, the Pocher "classics"? Not so much. I have had several, but only built the Mercedes 500k(?) all the way through. I had to add real leather because that seat vinyl krap was....krap. The radiator shell and other stainless metal parts were horrible..should have been chromed from the start. Pocher paid me to build the Mercedes for the Blackhawk Museum back in the '90's, and I had to constantly bug them for replacement parts. The one I really liked was the Alfa racer in white and blue. But,,,much like the others...the plastic body parts were warped and just didn't fit without a lot of dickering. I sold it (them) after getting disgusted. Too bad because I really like the look of the car. It would have made a really cool street rod!

To me, there are too many better kits of better subjects out there in that price range...and less. The Enzo? Eh!

Oh...someone mentioned the Protar F40. I had both the solid body and the clearbody. Neither were worth the effort or the cost ($100+).

No History?? How about the fact that when it was introduced, it was the first Ferrari to be directly taken from their F1 programs.....the F1 influence is obvious...unlike other cars which took some queues and technical bits from them....this thing looks like an F1 car if an F1 car was morphed into a passenger street car.

Another fact is that it's the only car named after the founder himself...in fact it was (at the time) the ultimate supercar and Ferrari felt it fitting enough to name it Enzo. With a storied past like Ferrari has, for them to design the ultimate Ferrari and name it in honor of the man himself is history in itself. Even though the Enzo is starting to show it's age and will soon be superseded with a new, more powerful supercar, it still ranks as one of the world's most impressive cars ever built.

I agree with your assessments on the Pocher TR and F40....even though they were big and had a lot of parts, they were also crude in some areas and toylike despite the parts count....and that is why I sold mine many years ago (Even though I wish I hadn't now since they have really appreciated in value.) I still have a Bugatti 50T in the box though

I suspect, depending on how well this one sells, we may see their other semi-finished models in full kit form in the future. It makes a lot of sense since they are already invested in the drawings & molds. I realize they had to probably redesign some areas and make a few new molds (or at least adjust them) but much of the overall effort is there already, it just needs repackaging.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Ghostmech

[Chuck Most]

There are some people that don't like the subject matter and wouldn't pay $5 for it..

I'm not wild about the subject myself, but if I could find one for five bucks, I'd jump on it even if I HATED the subject matter. Think about it, I could turn around and flip it to someone who does like the subject matter, and even if I sold it for 25% of its retail, I'd be making off like a bandit.

But you do have a good point- it all boils down to the subject matter, perceived value, and of course how bad you wanna land one on your workbench.

[Chuck Kourouklis]

I'm good with the subject - but I'd be better still with the same treatment of Tamiya's semi-assembled 288GTO.

PLEEEEAASE, Tamiya-san.

[deja-view]

I'm good with the subject - but I'd be better still with the same treatment of Tamiya's semi-assembled 288GTO.

PLEEEEAASE, Tamiya-san.

YES! Now, that's a subject I could put some time into and feel good about displaying. Love that GTO, and I'm not even sure why. I have a pretty nice 1/18 version, but a 1/12 would feel much better. I'd rather do the work myself though....."when" is another matter.

Anyway, I shouldn't be thinking about buying anything until I see how much it's gonna grind me to find another 1/12 GMP Gulf GT40.

Edited April 8, 2012 by deja-view

[Pete J.]

I would assume these two items (the "semi-assembled" version and the kit) were conceived and engineered as part of the same process, but I find it odd that there are significant differences between the two. Actually I find it odd that the "semi assembled" version is being marketed at all, but whatever. I'm sure they had their reasons.

Interesting. Thanks, Chuck.

Harry, just to clarify it a bit. The two models share a lot of parts. Chassis, body panels and a lot more. The differance according to my sources it that they mastered a new set of dies for several sprues to give the builder a better quality kit for their money, so yes it is the same but it is upgraded. Just exactly what is upgraded I don't know.

The Semi Assembled is kind of a strange story of import duties. Semi Assembled means you had to put the wheels on and attach a nut. I don't recall the excact regulations, but it had to do with imports duties, having Semi Assembled vs. completed.

Now a bit of why Tamiya did it. Simple! The 1:24 scale Enzo is by a huge margin the best selling auto kit of all time by Tamiya. Frankly, as a model, it set a new highwater mark for the quaility and complexity of an injected molded kit that nothing else could touch. The absolute perfect fit of a multipart body and chassis has never been done by any other kit maker. The detail of the parts and the fit were high even for Tamiya. I am still amazed every time I look at one of the kits and I have a bunch of them stashed. When they sold as many of them as they did it only makes sense that they do a large scale one.

Now, to the cost. I bet the boys in Irvine are scratching their heads over this one. Here is how I compare them. The new Yamato(ship for the unelightened) is a tour de force for a ship kit. It also has a similar MSRP in Japan. The Yamato's MSRP is 27300 Yen. The Enzo has an MSRP of 29800 Yen. Stateside the Yamato's MSRP is $417. A little quick math would suggest that the Enzo should be about $455. Discount retailers are selling the Yamato for about $335 and the Enzo where I can find one is going for about $395. All this seems about right. How they came up with a MSRP of $600 has us all scratching our head but then MSRP mean no more on a model kit any more that the window sticker on a real car. Both are starting points and what really maters is how many real dollars leave my pocket to be replaced by a box of plastic parts. So ultimately it looks like an open market has resolved the problem and makes a MSRP of $600 irrelevant.

[Scott - Elm City Hobbies]

Harry, just to clarify it a bit. The two models share a lot of parts. Chassis, body panels and a lot more. The differance according to my sources it that they mastered a new set of dies for several sprues to give the builder a better quality kit for their money, so yes it is the same but it is upgraded. Just exactly what is upgraded I don't know.

The Semi Assembled is kind of a strange story of import duties. Semi Assembled means you had to put the wheels on and attach a nut. I don't recall the excact regulations, but it had to do with imports duties, having Semi Assembled vs. completed.

Now a bit of why Tamiya did it. Simple! The 1:24 scale Enzo is by a huge margin the best selling auto kit of all time by Tamiya. Frankly, as a model, it set a new highwater mark for the quaility and complexity of an injected molded kit that nothing else could touch. The absolute perfect fit of a multipart body and chassis has never been done by any other kit maker. The detail of the parts and the fit were high even for Tamiya. I am still amazed every time I look at one of the kits and I have a bunch of them stashed. When they sold as many of them as they did it only makes sense that they do a large scale one.

Now, to the cost. I bet the boys in Irvine are scratching their heads over this one. Here is how I compare them. The new Yamato(ship for the unelightened) is a tour de force for a ship kit. It also has a similar MSRP in Japan. The Yamato's MSRP is 27300 Yen. The Enzo has an MSRP of 29800 Yen. Stateside the Yamato's MSRP is $417. A little quick math would suggest that the Enzo should be about $455. Discount retailers are selling the Yamato for about $335 and the Enzo where I can find one is going for about $395. All this seems about right. How they came up with a MSRP of $600 has us all scratching our head but then MSRP mean no more on a model kit any more that the window sticker on a real car. Both are starting points and what really maters is how many real dollars leave my pocket to be replaced by a box of plastic parts. So ultimately it looks like an open market has resolved the problem and makes a MSRP of $600 irrelevant.

The $600 MSRP isn't irrelevant, as that is what the Dealer Cost is based from, generally 40% off the MSRP, which makes the dealer cost $360 (from US suppliers), and that is what US retailers will base their markup on. While it has always been a little cheaper retail wise to buy kits from Asia, it gets a little ridiculous when you can buy a kit at retail, with the shipping, from Japan, cheaper than a dealer can buy it from their US or CDN suppliers. I want one myself, my choice is to buy it at my dealer cost of $360 from one of my suppliers, or about $330 retail (including the shipping) from HLJ, (of course they are out of stock now, so it might be a moot point if the one run is already OOS and there may not be a 2nd run).

I just don't get why Tamiya jacked the MSRP on it so much for the US/CDN market, sure, I expect it to be more than on the Asian market, but double?

[Pete J.]

The $600 MSRP isn't irrelevant, as that is what the Dealer Cost is based from, generally 40% off the MSRP, which makes the dealer cost $360 (from US suppliers), and that is what US retailers will base their markup on. While it has always been a little cheaper retail wise to buy kits from Asia, it gets a little ridiculous when you can buy a kit at retail, with the shipping, from Japan, cheaper than a dealer can buy it from their US or CDN suppliers. I want one myself, my choice is to buy it at my dealer cost of $360 from one of my suppliers, or about $330 retail (including the shipping) from HLJ, (of course they are out of stock now, so it might be a moot point if the one run is already OOS and there may not be a 2nd run).

I just don't get why Tamiya jacked the MSRP on it so much for the US/CDN market, sure, I expect it to be more than on the Asian market, but double?

Scott, I am sure that MSRP does have an impact on the food chain. My point was that as a consumer, what matters to me is what the current market on this kit is and that it is availble for $390 to $450 with a couple of online retailers. I would love to buy it locally, I just get real nervous about limited issues like this one. I have had to pay stupid prices on eBay before because I waited and couldn't get one retail. Unfortunately, scarcity can increase the cost. Just glad mine is in the box in the garage. You are right the MSRP makes little sense to those of us on the outside looking in.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Pete J.

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Speaking of stupid Ebay prices, I hope nobody minds a quick sidetrack here: if Explorer is lurking, I'd like to THANK YOU, vriend! Turns out that pic I posted earlier was a Craigslist link to this very kit:

Yep, somebody had it for sale about an hour (100 km) away - thus ending my 22-year quest! It was quite reasonably priced, too.

Bedankt!

[JesseJames]

What an interesting subject and thank you for the info guys! Congrats on your find Chuck!

[deja-view]

Chuck; That's a very nice looking F40....but who is "NOVA"?

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Thanks gents, and I'm realizing belatedly I shoulda put it in the "what did you get today" thread - but NOVA looks like the name of the series Fujimi evidently thought it was going to do in diecast kits.

Know that "Japlish" you sometimes see in literal translations, like Rosso's "GE'AR - Great Exciting Automotive Reality" (or whatever that acronym was)? Well this seems like some kind of Franco-nese:

"Nouvel Opinion Vrai Accessoir"

But it's a Fujimi kit, likely the only one they'll ever do quite like this.

[The Creative Explorer]

Speaking of stupid Ebay prices, I hope nobody minds a quick sidetrack here: if Explorer is lurking, I'd like to THANK YOU, vriend! Turns out that pic I posted earlier was a Craigslist link to this very kit:

Yep, somebody had it for sale about an hour (100 km) away - thus ending my 22-year quest! It was quite reasonably priced, too.

Bedankt!

Hahaha, 'Graag gedaan!' (you're welcome!)

Isn't it funny how things go sometimes? I am glad to hear you filled your 22-yr quest!

[jaydar]

Well, i ordered one. Watch for a lot of kits to hit the market from me. I can't sell the ol lady but everything else goes!

Joe.

[deja-view]

Chuck;

The more I look at that, the more I like it. Wanna trade for two plastic 1/12 F40 kits and a nice 1/18 diecast? And some cash? And?

Seriously, that's about the only stock F40 I've seen that I'd buy. Mind telling us how many clams it cost you (so far)?

[Chuck Kourouklis]

awww, Ken, I am so sorry; but I first heard about this thing 20 years ago, then got distracted by Pocher's 1/8 only to lose track of it. I waited two decades for this to pop up somewhere, and found it pretty much worth the wait - which also means I'm not apt to part with it any time soon.

It was $350, and considering how infrequently I've come across it over the years, I wasn't unhappy about that price. If you'd like me to at least give you a more complete description so you can decide if it's worth looking out for, I can redirect over to "What Did You Get Today" and give you a more complete review...

Edited April 16, 2012 by Chuck Kourouklis

[deja-view]

Well, It's really cool, and I hope you enjoy it....even thinking of me and some others drooling over it.

In the meantime, I went down to my LHS (Hobbytown) and got this to make me feel better:

Hosted on Fotki

I have been trying to get one of these for years off ebay, but the price always went beyond justification. This is a new re-release with old box art. I'll put it on the shelf with all my other "must have" projects.

[deja-view]

A friend of mine just happened to send me this today:

“It is preoccupation with possession, more than anything else, that prevents men from living freely and nobly.” …… Bertrand Russell

Man, I am so hooked ....and in so much trouble.

And, to further feed our addiction, you need to get on Roberto's mailing list (very nice guy): http://www.icarohobbies.com/index.html

Edited April 16, 2012 by deja-view

[jaydar]

Just a note to tell you about HLJ's incredible shipping time. I got a ship notice on 4/18. It was delivered 4/21. The box is huge too!

joe.