Is there an alternitive to Taluene?

[Hot_Rod_Bob]

Hi Gang!

I am trying to get away from all the chemicals associated with model build. So far I have done pretty good. I hardly ever use rattle cans, and mix all my own paints using acrylics and use only the blue labeled testors glue. My question is: is the some other alternitive to the common modeling putties that contain Taluene? I have noticed that even Bondo contains this chemical.

Thanks for reading and Happy Modeling!!

Bob

[62rebel]

going to non volatile (I'm assuming you want to get away from those products that have fume issues for health reasons) will require you to use epoxy based products. even the polyester based stuff has some bad fumes to deal with. i'm always trying new uses for existing products and i've seen the military bunch using Sculpey for stuff like sandbags, etc., and it occurred to me that if Sculpey will hold dimension when cured or baked, it could be used to make parts for models that would otherwise require many stages of fabrication, per se bench seats in any desired upholstery design; anything you could shape, imprint, and bake/cure and paint.

i haven't actually used Sculpey for this yet; but i have 2 boxes of it and am always planning custom interiors for models. as for using it to blend parts on kits, i'm unsure of it's qualities in this regard. epoxy based products are probably the best for that use. i know that most epoxy compounds stink to high heaven as they cure but are mostly inert.

[Hot_Rod_Bob]

Hi Rebel,

Thanks for the info. Thats my intentions exactly, to get away from toxic stuff. My wife uses sculpey for making homemade jewelery. The only problem with using it, is that it cures in the oven at 275 degrees for about 30 to 40 min. By that time i would think that styrene would be a just a mound of bubling plastic

Bob

[62rebel]

that's why i was considering using it to make only component parts; definitely too high a temp for styrene! that's my conern about it holding dimensions once baked; if i shape it to fit , say, into an interior tub as a rear seat insert, would it still be the same size when baked ?

i'm visualizing a wrap-around rear seat like 66 t-bird for 49 ford or merc kit, and if Sculpey works for that without shrinking, i'm adding it to my reguar arsenal. depending on the percentage of shrink, i might be able to shape parts with an allowance for the shrinkage., but as i've said i haven't gotten that far yet.

fine grained epoxy like PC-7 is another product i've heard people use.

[GTmike400]

Toluene is hard to get away from, its in a lot of stuff we use. If you're careful with it, it wont really hurt you. I wear a dual cartridge respirator when I use toluene products.

The only putty that I know of that probably doesnt use toluene is Tamiya Epoxy Putties.

[62rebel]

I worry that if the putty product i use doesn't have some solvent agent in it to create a chemical bond to the parent structure, it may lift and cause the paint to crack. i do a lot of fillet work on customs and depend on the putty not to separate. the epoxies i've used have at times separated from the styrene structure, but i'm sure it's in the technique and not the product. i've even had testors' clear parts cement react with painted parts when it came into contact with them, and i was under the impression that the stuff was latex based, and fairly inert.

if we're not paying attention, we might get legislated into the very track we're discussing here. it's true that a lot of the stuff we work with is very dangerous, but by and large we all know the risks involved and act accordingly. it's going to be the unsupervised kids getting into the volatile thinners and solvents that sic the litigators on us and then the industry will be forced to clamp down on who they sell to. down here in redneck country we can still do pretty much as we please but i've read elsewhere that draconian restrictions on paint and model cement are enforced in certain areas.

so; maybe we should get a little pro-active here; there's a large contingent of very sharp minds hanging out here and there's bound to be some better ideas swirling around waiting for a voice and a set of hands.

safe AND workable materials are possible; acrylics were a recent development in answer to VOC content. my problem? not enough education! i'm no chemistry major or anything, but somebody here might be...

[Hot_Rod_Bob]

Hi Mike and Rebel, Thanks for the help here. Your right Mike, It's diffacult to get away from the Taluene stuff, and using a respirator is a good idea. I always have a fan going by the bench to keep fumes moving along, maybe this is one thing I won't be able to get away from.

Rebel, About the sculpey. Both my wife and me use it. she makes jewelery and I have used it to make some molds. I does very, very little shrinking. So I think using it as you said would work. The stuff also polishes up real nicely too, I start with a 320 grit and go all the way up to the polishing clothes grit of 12,000, then give it a coat or two of mop an glo, then just rub a little with a soft cloth or flannel, and is give a beautiful shine

Bob

[Hot_Rod_Bob]

Your right Rebel about the toxic products we builders use. On my bench are two types of CA's, putties, CSC, and dirty brush water. All have lids firmly attached when I am not at the bench. No kids here, But 12 cats. and if they were to get into any of it we would have cats hurling everywhere. Not just the chemicals, but the blades too, A few years ago I had a trail of blood leading off my bench to a sleeping cat. The poor thing had walked aross a sharp No. 11 blade and didn't even know it. And had cut one of her pads on her front end. Nothing serious, but it tought me a lesson, do leave anything out around cats !! It will become a toy!! I find little parts all over the basement where they have hauled them off, played with them then got bored and moved on to something else, Now if I can just figure out what kit they go to !! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Peace and happy modeling

Bob

[62rebel]

I think i can safely say i got the most worrisome pet of all; she's eight years old going on nine, about thirty pounds, and smart as a tack. she's got a nose like a bloodhound, hands like a humans, and the curiosity of five cats. i call her a carolina swamp terrier, but most folks call her a raccoon. i HAVE to keep my modeling stuff locked away! she used to confine herself to twiddling pieces of strue but i have found chewed-on parts here and there. small price to pay for such a companion, and i wouldn't trade her for anything. non-toxic alternatives are definitely of interest to me!

[Hot_Rod_Bob]

Wow Rebel, I never thought you could domesticate a racoon, I bet she is a very good companion. Have you had her since she was a baby?

[62rebel]

DOMESTICATE??? well; she's got US trained pretty well....lol! yessir; we got her when she was very small, that's the only way you can hope to bond with them and bonding is the ONLY way to "domesticate" (there's that word again!) a raccoon. she's a very affectionate and spoiled little girl; she expects and follows a routine timetable and lets my wife and i know if we deviate from it! i DO NOT recommend them as pets, though; they can be very destructive and temperamental, and are capable of carrying diseases fatal to humans. they also require a high degree of interaction and a willingness to stay close to home. she used to travel with us in the car when she was small but at thirty pounds she's too heavy for the carrier. she hates noise anyway; very apprehensive of strangers, so she stays home. he he he domesticate the man said he he he ho ho ho ha ha ha (sound of knee slapping) lol! thanks for letting me share my joy.

[Hot_Rod_Bob]

Rebel, thats kinda sounds like the 12 little ones we have here. Each has it's own personality. We have three that we took in almost 2 years ago, and are still kinda feril, but are doing pretty good. The otyher 9 cats are getting up there in years, the old man of the house is almost 13, and still rockets around here like he's a kitten. The ole' lady of the house (not the wife) Is a large black female, and she lets everyone else know she's the boss, even me and my wife. Anyway's they are all strays, and very comfortable here, they too have a set schedule, and if we change things, they let us know, they are not happy with it. We feel very fortunate that they let us live here, after all we are out numbered. The dog is another story, sometimes he gets a little to aggresive when playing with them, I tell him he's a "dead dog walking" One of these days all 12 cats will surround him while he's asleep, and have a lynchin' Sounds like your little gal has you very well trained!!!

[bob paeth]

Does anyone know what kind of solvent is used in the making of styrene ? I sure don't want to go back to balsa wood models and even then we would have the glue issue to deal with.

Bob :shock:

[62rebel]

i still use balsa in my models when i need it...

i think the production of styrene doesn't actually involve what we'd use as solvent? styrene is sort of an accidental by product of natural gas from what i've read. another one of those goopy things like nylon that went unused for years until someone said "hey, look at what this stuff is good for..."

i started planning a custom merc last night and i am going to use Sculpey as much as i can in the construction to see what the limitations are. as far as i can tell from other users, sculpey is probably the safest stuff out there. and it should add weight which seems appropriate for a custom merc!

[bob paeth]

The reason I was asking about the "make-up" of styrene is because of the way I work with it. While I do use CA and MEK ( both with caution I might add ) most of my modifications are done by melting the plastic. I use a wood burning tool to stick two pieces together or re-shape them to my own liking. Melting styrene does give off a smoke residue and has an oder but I have been using this technique for over 40 years with no apparent side effects ( I think ). My chronic cough, delerium tremmins, and night time sweats are attributed to old age. ( JUST KIDDING OF COURSE ). I do use Squadron White but my work room is well ventalated, or at least until I get that hole in the roof fixed ( JUST KIDDING AGAIN )

Anyway, seriously, precautions should always be taken when using materials made of chemicals or the chenicals themselves. Just, I hope, don't become paranoid in your efforts. The air we breath is poluted both indoors and out doors. I'm not sure that even pure mountain air is available any more.

Bob :shock:

[bob paeth]

The reason I was asking about the "make-up" of styrene is because of the way I work with it. While I do use CA and MEK ( both with caution I might add ) most of my modifications are done by melting the plastic. I use a wood burning tool to stick two pieces together or re-shape them to my own liking. Melting styrene does give off a smoke residue and has an oder but I have been using this technique for over 40 years with no apparent side effects ( I think ). My chronic cough, delerium tremmins, and night time sweats are attributed to old age. ( JUST KIDDING OF COURSE ). I do use Squadron White but my work room is well ventalated, or at least until I get that hole in the roof fixed ( JUST KIDDING AGAIN )

Anyway, seriously, precautions should always be taken when using materials made of chemicals or the chenicals themselves. Just, I hope, don't become paranoid in your efforts. The air we breath is poluted both indoors and out doors. I'm not sure that even pure mountain air is available any more.

Bob :shock:

[62rebel]

bob, you slay me! i weld when i'm working on my 1:1 cars and sometimes breathe zinc fumes.... talk about getting the jitters...

i know better too, that's the shame of it! getting back to the fumes in the smoke from melting styrene, i'm not sure what it might contain; BUT there is an answer to be found. any shop that has to work with sheet styrene should have an MSDS sheet for that product on file, and on that sheet there will be a listing of by-products of burning or melting. fire department personnel responding to fires in these shops have to know how to deal with the resulting hazardous materials. (now i feel like i'm back in the Navy doing damage control training) I don't have an MSDS here for the stuff; we don't use it, but a sign shop ought to have one.

side note: years ago when i worked for Babcock and Wilcox, i was asked to get rid of a huge bin of styrofoam shipping peanuts.... i borrowed a heat gun from one of the assembly techs and took the bin out on the loading dock and proceeded to melt them down. about a half hour later I was asked to please stop the fumes were blowing into the building...

[ismaelg]

Back to the original topic, another alternative you can consider is Milliput. That's my favorite putty. It has no smell and mixes with water, yet dries rock hard and sands and feathers out beautifully. It's a two part putty so it will not shrink, will not evaporate and will not gas out.

Thanks,

[62rebel]

do you have any special technique or trick to gluing it in place or does it act as it's own bonding agent? i'd heard of it but our LHS doesn't seem to have it.

[Steve H.]

Milliput bonds to styrene on its own. I've only used it once, but after several years, I see no adverse effects.

[62rebel]

cool; i am on a hunt for it now.... gooodbyyye green stuff; it's been a long education.

[ismaelg]

I get Milliput in Micro-Mark. (micromark.com) All bodywork on this car is Milliput. It bonds itself to styrene, aluminum and anything else I've tried.

This is Milliput and it bonds well to styrene on one side, resin to the other.

It can be a bit messy at first, but you'll like it. Only problem is that it can be addictive

Master modeler Jim Drew got me into it.

Thanks,

[Guest zebm1]

Melting styrene does give off a smoke residue and has an oder but I have been using this technique for over 40 years with no apparent side effects ( I think ). My chronic cough, delerium tremmins, and night time sweats are attributed to old age. ( JUST KIDDING OF COURSE ). Bob :shock:

being one of those who is afflicted by COPD and have researched the subject quite thoroughly.... I can tell yu this Bob. If what yu inhale is of an organic nature, then yur lungs and yur body can deal with it, and flush it out thru yur alimentary apparatus....BUT....ifn what yu breathe in is inorganic or a man-made material, yur lungs...and yur body can't flush it out. Therefore, thet plastic smoke yu've been smelling all these past 40 yrs...is still in yur lungs Bob, yur lung tissue just cysts over it, which reduces yur lung's ability to pass oxygen into yur blood....

just a little something to think about guy