Spray Booth

[CadillacPat]

I have some observations and a question on the subject of masks and overspray. Seems to me that any spray device, aerosol, airbrush or even pump, is going to leave some airborne particles. Many years ago at an ad agency where I worked, we had a Xerox machine that kept breaking down. We couldn't figure out why until the Xerox guy said he kept finding gummy stuff on the machine's drum. As it turns out, this was 3M Spraymount that we used for mounting layouts to board - our spray booth (unventilated) was about 15 feet away from the copier, and we couldn't smell or see any problem. I wonder if it would be wise to turn off any air conditioning in the room while painting, since the fans might pull particles away from the booth? Any insights on this?.

SJordan, Unvented is the key word here.

Johnny,

Also take a look at my Paint Booth and the baffles (front upper and lower) that are designed with it.

These baffles force any overspray back into the center of the Booth where incoming air and outgoing air drag it through the fans and out.

Build your Paint Booth with enough fan power and you're fine.

If your fans are insufficient or your Booth is designed poorly then air pressure and paint coming from the AirBrush can overcome the efficiency of those fans.

But, we don't AirBrush with very high pressures.

Remember, you ae not spraying at 100psi nor is your finger taped down to the trigger in a constant on positiion.

Very little paint flows through an AirBrush as you make each pass.

CadillacPat

[Guest Johnny]

Chris, in the end like with all things the mfg is trying to stay ahead of frivolous lawsuits that are dreamed up daily by bottom feeding lawyers.

Sad thing the outlandish warnings everything has to have attached to it.

Like a coffee cup having to tell you the coffee is hot!

Or the sign above the urinal saying "do not eat the giant mint"!

[Harry P.]

Chris, in the end like with all things the mfg is trying to stay ahead of frivolous lawsuits that are dreamed up daily by bottom feeding lawyers.

Sad thing the outlandish warnings everything has to have attached to it.

Like a coffee cup having to tell you the coffee is hot!

Or the sign above the urinal saying "do not eat the giant mint"!

I think you're right... it's the lawyers doing a "CYA" thing.

I mean, when McDonald's has to print a notice on their coffee cups to warn us that hot coffee is hot, you know the lawyers have completely taken over...

[jamesG]

I never used a booth before always painted outside. Now however I am looking to build my own so I can paint in my garage. Fumes are not a big deal most of the year as I can open two windows as well as the two big garage doors. The problem for me is controlling overspray and keeping dust off the fresh paint. I would love to buy a good booth it's just not in the budget.

I see it this way. If you can afford to buy a good booth or don't feel comfortable building your own then go for it. If you can't afford one or just like to build things then be smart and be safe.

I agree that overspray dust (and any other dust for that matter) can burn and I KNOW that propellant from spray cans is flammable so you can start a fire from a sparking motor. If you think that people are just trying to scare you fine, but rip on someone for trying to keep others safe and don't whine about it or go looking for donations to help rebuild your house if it burns down.

[jamesG]

I think you're right... it's the lawyers doing a "CYA" thing.

I mean, when McDonald's has to print a notice on their coffee cups to warn us that hot coffee is hot, you know the lawyers have completely taken over...

Let's. Not forget suffocation warnings on trash bags.

Edited April 15, 2012 by jamesG

[b_lever1]

i'm going with pats idea of making my own with bathroom fans because they do have to deal with explosive gases,methane,hair spray,to name a few.i would like to have more money to spend on my models. plus check your dryer venttube most are full of lint that will burn your home down first.

[AzTom]

You have every right to gamble on your own safety, but please consider family that my be affected.

Here is a good read on bath fans. Bath fans are the cause of many fires when being used for the purpose they were made for. Add flammable fumes and guess what could happen.

http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Motors/BathroomFans/BathroomFans.html


I have replaced hundreds of burnt fans over the years, most just scorching the inside of the housing. I know for a fact if those had paint fumes running through them it would have been disasterous.

NFPA Fact Sheet: http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/AC_fan_fact_sheet.pdf
Fans
Fans in 2006-2010 were involved in an average of 3,880 home fires per year, resulting in an average of 13 civilian deaths, 130 civilian injuries, and $77 million in direct property damage.
Portable fans were involved in one-quarter (23%) of the fan fires, 82% of the fan deaths, and 47% of the fan injuries.
Half (52%) of the stationary fan fires started in the bathroom, while nearly half (45%) of the portable fan fires started in the bedroom.


Recall: Box fan, Fire danger, for you window fan users
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/money/consumer/recalled-box-fans-pose-fire-hazard

[azers]

As a professional car painter and avid model builder i treat my home booth just like the professional booth i use. I make sure the filters are clean and the fans are continuously running till im done painting. On my model booth at home i spritz the filters with water and make sure that the,fans run until im done painting. I also change the filters regularly. I also occasionly use a friends home built booth. He uses squirell cage fans and furnace filters for the intake and exhaust. We also wet down the exhaust filters and he never has a dust buildup. He is adamant about that because he doesnt want to have hhis garage burn down with a car in the booth. Just my two cents.

[CadillacPat]

i'm going with pats idea of making my own with bathroom fans because they do have to deal with explosive gases,methane,hair spray,to name a few.i would like to have more money to spend on my models. plus check your dryer venttube most are full of lint that will burn your home down first.

BLever, as a self-reliant Artist who likes to design and build the tools I use in my Shop, I admire your drive.

Like all Forums ther are many Members who come here just for the info and rarely post.

I've received several PM's and Emails from those here who want detailed info on building their own TableTop Paint Booth but are hesitant to post not wanting to be hit with the usual bombardment of unbased negativity from a handful of people.

Don't let anything get in your way.

The whole world today gained proof to not believe old wives tales or urban gossip.

Build your Booth, use it and become better at what you do.

If you have any questions, just do like the others here and write me.

The sky is not falling and as a Hobbyist you are ahead of the pack when you think out of the box and don't walk the line.

CadillacPat

[AzTom]

I've received several PM's and Emails from those here who want detailed info on building their own TableTop Paint Booth but are hesitant to post not wanting to be hit with the usual bombardment of unbased negativity from a handful of people.

The National Fire Protection Association if far from unbased. The NFPA is the world standard for codes when it comes to fire, including the National Electrical code. They do real fact based research, not I used mine for umpteen years and nothing happened.

Any post suggesting it is safe to use bath fans or cheap hood fans for paint fume removal should be deleted from all forums. I am surprised this forum takes the liability risk to allow such dangerous "How To's" to be posted here.

I am happy to say I have not seen a bath fan explode while being used as a paint booth, and don't want to see it. BUT, I have seen hundreds of burnt bath and kitchen hood fans, some did severe damage to the home, most just scorched the housing.

Even the most uneducated person should be able figure out what would happen if paint fumes were passing through the fan when the motor fails.

I am NOT against anyone building their own paint booth, just use the CORRECT fan. In reality you should be able to buy a squirrel cage fan for what three bath fans cost to get the same CFM.

[CadillacPat]

AzTom,

Regarding your threat to curtail the 1st amendment here by deleting the posts offering useful info that you aren't privy to.

Seems like recently our U.S. Constitution is being treated like it came with an eraser to be easily changed.

I'm actually amused at your forceful and adamant replies, and would never ask for them to be removed.

Why would I, I could care less??

AzTom, I'm just making a suggestion here but maybe more fiber in your diet might be necessary.

All that talk about worshipping National this and National that Agencies tells me you are exactly what they want, people who will do what they say and not ask questions. That just does not apply to me.

Hobbyists and Artists not only ask questions, they innovate, they invent, to improve their craft.

Some of us don't need all those Govt. regulations and I think your time would be better used not trying to scare people.

Heck, you can fingerpaint your Models for all I care.

You did finally confess that, quote, "YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN A BATHROOM FAN EXPLODE WHILE BEING USED IN A PAINT BOOTH "

Honsetly, I put my Tutorials out there for anyone to use them.

It just amazes me when someone else, through no experience of their own, tries to quash a thought because they heard from someone who heard from someone, and so on and so on.

I can say, I BUILT THAT and IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, so can many others I've helped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CadillacPat

Edited December 23, 2012 by CadillacPat

[AzTom]

I made no threat. There is no 1st amendment on this forum, they have very right to delete any post for any reason.

My suggestion to you, lighten up on the fiber and quit spreading the BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH that those fans are safe for paint booths!

[CadillacPat]

I made no threat. There is no 1st amendment on this forum, they have very right to delete any post for any reason.

My suggestion to you, lighten up on the fiber and quit spreading the BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH that those fans are safe for paint booths!

But you Tom, are not They,

We'll keep painting and you can keep talking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CadillacPat

[crazyjim]

I had my popcorn Friday night while watching wrastling.

[b_lever1]

pat thanks for the incouragement!! if guys are worried about fires painting in house with or without a booth you have no insurance even it is a water base paint if your going to ask an insurance place just don't ask the one who covers your house they will drop you like a hot potatoe bob

[MDSKELL]

I just bought a real spray booth and love it

[dbiggied]

I'm really getting a good chuckle over the cat claws in this thread. Ya'll fight like a bunch of wet hens.

For what it's worth, my two cents is that if you spray flammable materials through a fan that isn't designed for it because you're too cheap to buy the correct kind of fan, you deserve to watch your house burn down...and just because you've been doing it for xx years with no problems doesn't mean something bad won't happen tomorrow. I once pulled the ignition coil wire off a running engine with my bare hand and found out just how far 30,000 volts can jump...just because I'm still alive doesn't mean I should keep doing it...it just means I was luckier than I was stupid.

Having said that, I have a homemade spray booth (with a proper squirrel cage blower), but I need more CFM. Has anyone seen the fan below? It seems to be sort of a squirrel cage type blower, and looks to be easy to modify for a custom spray booth. If it's "explosion proof" and pulls anywhere near the rated CFM, it would seem to be the best buy around, but I can't find anything specific about the motor on the company's website.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Shop-Vac-Air-Mover-500-CFM/15406586

[Aaronw]

It says in the ad that it is rated at 500cfm, but keep in mind that is with no ducting or restrictions. How a blower reacts to those things is important. At $59 I am positive that it is not "explosion proof". That looks like one of those blowers for drying wet carpets, not for venting gasses.

If you really want to spring for an intrinsically safe aka "explosion proof fan" you are looking at a lot more than $50.

Here is one of a similar size for a mere $719

http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/NFC-NHADB4-B-1E.html

Personally I'd suggest one of the shaded pole blowers from Grainger. Less than $200 will get you enough fan for a big spray booth, less if you only need a small booth. Intrinsically safe fans are really intended for venting highly flammable vapors, gasoline, natural gas and such, not spray paint. None of the commercially available booths use an intrinsically safe fan, most use a shaded pole blower.

This is the one I used on my booth, it is 485cfm. 2ft x 2ft x 16" tall booth, cross flow out the back with a heater filter and 6" ducting. It works great, no overspray or odor using full size spray cans. It is a very well made, heavy duty blower that will probably outlast me.

http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Blower-12G801

[Art Anderson]

It says in the ad that it is rated at 500cfm, but keep in mind that is with no ducting or restrictions. How a blower reacts to those things is important. At $59 I am positive that it is not "explosion proof". That looks like one of those blowers for drying wet carpets, not for venting gasses.

If you really want to spring for an intrinsically safe aka "explosion proof fan" you are looking at a lot more than $50.

Here is one of a similar size for a mere $719

http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/NFC-NHADB4-B-1E.html

Personally I'd suggest one of the shaded pole blowers from Grainger. Less than $200 will get you enough fan for a big spray booth, less if you only need a small booth. Intrinsically safe fans are really intended for venting highly flammable vapors, gasoline, natural gas and such, not spray paint. None of the commercially available booths use an intrinsically safe fan, most use a shaded pole blower.

This is the one I used on my booth, it is 485cfm. 2ft x 2ft x 16" tall booth, cross flow out the back with a heater filter and 6" ducting. It works great, no overspray or odor using full size spray cans. It is a very well made, heavy duty blower that will probably outlast me.

http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Blower-12G801

Escuse me, but my Pace commercially made spray booth uses a GRAINGER squrrel cage blower with a sealed, shaded pole motor!

Art

[Quick GMC]

[aurfalien]

Hows this look;

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Portable-Hobby-Airbrush-Paint-Spray-Booth-Kit-Exhaust-Filter-Extractor-Set-Model/38431803

[Aaronw]

Escuse me, but my Pace commercially made spray booth uses a GRAINGER squrrel cage blower with a sealed, shaded pole motor!

Art

Yes, exactly. Most commercially available spray booths use the same Dayton blowers you can buy through Grainger. I think that is what I said.

Shaded pole blower does not equal intrinsically safe aka "explosion proof", that is a specific certification, that adds a lot of money to the price. Pace does not use intrinsically safe blowers. To be clear, I did not use an intrinsically safe blower either although it is a shaded pole blower.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Aaronw

[Aaronw]

Hows this look;

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Portable-Hobby-Airbrush-Paint-Spray-Booth-Kit-Exhaust-Filter-Extractor-Set-Model/38431803

Not a lot of info to go on in the ad, but 4m3 translates to 141cfm. It looks like the work area opening is around 12x12", maybe 15x15" (based on the turn table being 7.5") so just based on air movement it is probably decent about venting. The filters could be a problem, depending on the availability of replacements.

The ducting will throttle the blowers capability, but that is a price of portability. If you were to set this up semi-permanently I'd replace it with the shortest piece possible, and try to use straight metal ducting if possible to get the most out of the blower. Flex hose and curves in the ducting add a huge amount of restriction to the air flow, as does using more duct that you need.

Based on the source and the price I imagine the materials quality is poor. For about 3x ($265) the price you can get a Pace Mini-Plus booth which is twice that size, made from sheet metal and uses standard (easy to find, cheap) furnace filters.

Art has a Pace booth and seems quite pleased with them.

So as far as the booth you posted? It looks adequate, but you get what you pay for, and $80 is pretty cheap.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Aaronw

[aurfalien]

Thanks Aaron, much appreciated.

[Art Anderson]

Yes, exactly. Most commercially available spray booths use the same Dayton blowers you can buy through Grainger. I think that is what I said.

Shaded pole blower does not equal intrinsically safe aka "explosion proof", that is a specific certification, that adds a lot of money to the price. Pace does not use intrinsically safe blowers. To be clear, I did not use an intrinsically safe blower either although it is a shaded pole blower.

However, consider that the blower in question is a squirrel cage unit, the motor is pretty tightly shielded (encased), and the motor is completely outside of the air stream.

Art