Monogram Classics

[imatt88]

Chris,

Very nice. Looks pretty close to me. Have you tried kitbashing those together?

BTW, my area code here in the States is 49930...

HTH,

Cheers, Ian

[keyser]

Maybe redundant, but here's a list of kits I know:

Monogram Duesenbergs- Weymann Torpedo Phaeton; Town Car; Roadster; metal boattail. Bandai Sedan. Art Anderson AAM had a great line of resin bodies mostly mastered by Lee Baker RIP. Revised and corrected body of metal boattail (had clamshell vents on hood; Weymann Boattail (black and white); Franay tapertail; Gurney-Nutting Boattail (orange and black), 4-door Sedan, and Judkins 3-window coupe. Also had J engine and hood conversion, and disc wheels from Weymann Boattail. South African company ScaleKraft had Mudd coupe, Franay, some PE wires (someone stateside had some as well, were $60/set IIRC)

Packards: Boattail, Phaeton, and completely different metal dual cowl phaeton (lots of different parts, many not interchangeable)

Rolls Roadster and Phaeton (+ Italeri RR)

Cord 812 Phaeton; AAM 810 Beverly smoothback and 812 trunkback sedans; 812 Sportsman roadster; awful Pyro

Lincoln 41 Continental (someone did resin coupe) and awful Pyro 48; MPC 28 Roadster and Phaeton

Pyro 35 Auburn Boattail

Chrysler roadster and convertible sedan MPC; Italeri version of convertible sedan

Johan 31 Caddy roadster, Phaeton, Towncar; Italeri 33 Town Car and Convertible Sedan; Monogram 32 Phaeton

Bugatti 35B Monogram; Italeri Royales Coupe Napolean and another, Lindberg Victoria; Heller 50

Mercedes SSK Lindberg; Johan 500K coupe and roadster; Monogram 540K Cab A and Coupe; Heller 500K Special Roadster, 170 Sedan Delivery and Sedan; Italeri 540K Cabriolet B

Heller Alfa 1750; Bentley Blower; BMW Dixi and 328; Delahaye; Delage D8SS; Talbot-Lago; Citroen 5CV several versions. 15CV sedan

Probably forgot some, and didn't cover all the resin. All 1/24-1/25

Ooops, didn't see ya Art. How are ya, it's the doc. I won't mention the Mormon Meteor project :^)

Edited August 18, 2011 by keyser

[Junkman]

Citroen 5CV several versions.

There was only one version of the 5CV, the Trefle. There were various versions of the C4 however.

[Art Anderson]

Since this thread/lists includes cars of the Classic Era that aren't considered "Classics" by the definitions used by Classic Car Club of America, it's fair to include, I think, some more cars:

Monogram 3 1930 Model A Fords: Deluxe Coupe, Cabriolet (these two shared most body components, as did the actual cars) and a Standard Phaeton. In addition, Monogram's 1930 Model A Ford Station Wagon, while issued only in street rod form, can be combined with the coupe chassis, fenders and chrome parts to make a stock Woody Wagon (in addition, at least one reissue has parts to blank off the rear quarter windows and the window opening in the tailgate to do the very rare Deluxe Sedan Delivery, which was produced from wooden station wagon bodies. Addtionally, Monogram also produced the most accurately done 1934 Ford Deluxe Coupe and the 1936 Ford 3-window coupe, in stock form when these two were first produced back in the middle 1960's.

Heller also produced a pair of early post-WW-II Mercedes-Benz 170's, a 4dr sedan and a sedan delivery, both of which kits came out in the late 1970's, but quickly became unobtainium for nearly 20yrs, finally reissued in the past 7-8 years. The 170 had its beginning in 1935, but as a 4-cylinder budget priced car, it never quite achieved Classic status.

Also, we ought not to forget that Lindberg kitted a pair of really Classic cars: 1928 Mercedes SSK, and a Bugatti Type 41 Royale, the convertible victoria that resides at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn MI. Wills (later Southeast) Finecast in the UK produced a Mercedes SSKL Roadster (the version with the huge "Swiss Cheese" holes in the frame rails), and a Jaguar SS-100, both these cars in full white metal kits, 1/24 scale. SE Finecast also produced a prewar vintage MG K3 Magnette and the legendary 3-wheel Morgan, also both in 1/24 scale.

Art

[FordRodnKustom]

I like these American Classics too and I'm working on collecting them all. Not Monogram but I like this one. I was lucky to score a mint original . This is a scan of the box I have.

[oldscool]

Hey Ron, I love that Pyro Auburn. I built one of them when I was a kid and remember it being molded in a reddish brown sort of marbled looking plastic. Can you show us the sprues?

gus

[FordRodnKustom]

Hey Gus, I had one too as a youngster and the styrene was a light gray like this one. No Chrome!

[sjordan2]

The same kit has been boxed by Lindberg except it contains a chrome sprue.

[Jim Gibbons]

Here's the original issue, box art, and instructions for the Mercedes 540K. I was able to score this for $9.95 on Ebay this spring. I was also able to get an original issue Bugatti T35 with the diorama accessories for an excellent price this summer. I've started work on the MB 540K to replicate the one I received for my 10th birthday. I'm still debating whether or not to finish the interior more accurately, or simply leave it as I built it all those decades ago.

[Junkman]

This is the issue with the swirly brownish red parts:

Have all the MPC classics been mentioned yet?

[Junkman]

Heller made it in 1/24:

Well, it is a 540K Spezial-Roadster if you say it is.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Casey

[sjordan2]

Heller made it in 1/24:

Well, it is a 540K Spezial-Roadster if you say it is.

I think a lot of it has to do with what's under the skin, and I think a lot of kit builders like Pocher have it wrong. There are so many similarities between the 500K and 540K it's hard to keep it straight. But I'll go with what RM Auctions says. They ought to know.

[sjordan2]

From what I can see, the biggest visible difference between the 500k and the 540K has something to do with the fender profile/wheel well radius and the engine: the 500K has a long cylindrical air filter next to and parallel to the valve cover, and connected to the supercharger with a rubber hose (different from the shot below). The 540K has a cylindrical air filter mounted directly over of the supercharger. I think Pocher used the 500K engine layout for their 540Ks. The instruction sheets show them being the same.

I believe the 540K began production using the coachwork of the 500K, which was soon modified. Obviously, there are other differences in the engine compartment. Both cars had a few body type variations.

500K engine:

540K engine:

Edited August 22, 2011 by sjordan2

[charlie8575]

Even the engine is a work of art on these cars...

Charlie Larkin

[sjordan2]

Even the engine is a work of art on these cars...

Charlie Larkin

No kidding. But as I have read it from my references, the engine-turned finishes were not from the factory. Both of the examples I posted above were from cars that have been criticized as "over-restored."

[Jim Gibbons]

The new issue of Hemmings Classic Car has a great article (a reprint from Special Interest Auto mag from '76) on the history of supercharging. The main difference was that MB originally put the charged air through a pressure carburetor. This is clearly seen on the 500K engine pic Skip provided; the large tubing runs from the supercharger unit to the air intake. In 1937 (the 540K was first introduced in '36), MB changed the plumbing to compress the mixture after the carb into the intake manifold, which was a more common (and likely less expensive and more efficient) way of doing it.

[imatt88]

Guys, this is great stuff! Great pics and lots of info

I never realized there was such an interest in the old "Classics"

I would like to see more builds here in the forum

I do have a question...the old Pyro car kits...how are they? Whats the quality like? I've never built one. They're all over eBay. Are they worht picking up?

Is it true that Lindberg reissued a lot of these cars? Are these kits worth picking up?

Inquiring minds what to know

Cheers, Ian

Edited August 22, 2011 by imatt88

[sjordan2]

Guys, this is great stuff! Great pics and lots of info

I never realized there was such an interest in the old "Classics"

I would like to see more builds here in the forum

I do have a question...the old Pyro car kits...how are they? Whats the quality like? I've never built one. They're all over eBay. Are they worht picking up?

Is it true that Lindberg reissued a lot of these cars? Are these kits worth picking up?

Inquiring minds what to know

Cheers, Ian

In general, the Pyro cars are regarded as something of a joke, though they often represent the only versions available of certain cars. If you look at the Auburn Speedster above, you will see that the door panels are not scribed, but in relief. You have to sand them down and scribe. The hoods do not fit fit, so you have to do a tremendous amount of sanding. The only Lindberg reissue version that I can speak to is the Auburn, which indeed has chrome, but needs the same amount of "accurizing" as the original You have to do your homework.

[Art Anderson]

Guys, this is great stuff! Great pics and lots of info

I never realized there was such an interest in the old "Classics"

I would like to see more builds here in the forum

I do have a question...the old Pyro car kits...how are they? Whats the quality like? I've never built one. They're all over eBay. Are they worht picking up?

Is it true that Lindberg reissued a lot of these cars? Are these kits worth picking up?

Inquiring minds what to know

Cheers, Ian

Ian, to be fair here: The old Pyro Classic car kits were tooled in the very earliest days of plastic model car kits--first released in 1954-55. In that era, model cars were perhaps best regarded as little more than toys, for young hands (even the promotional models of the time weren't the best for accuracy either). Couple that with industrial pattern makers who, while well versed in their craft, weren't necessarily miniaturists in the sense of those whose work we often see today.

In addition, Pyro wasn't started as a plastic model company, but rather a manufacturer of pyrometers (temperature measuring instruments for manufacturers and the restaurant industry., so plastic model kits were a new thing for them as well. But, for perhaps 8-10 years or so, their model kits stood the test, actually sold pretty well, before the more sophisticated multi-slide core molds came about to produce one piece body shells and the like (yeah, multi-slide mold tooling was out there--one piece promo and diecast tooling was being done of course, but still I suspect a "black art" for most injection molders.

Had the interest in Classic Era cars taken off back in the 60's, and stayed up there on a high plane, I have no doubt that there would have been even better, more sophisticated kits of these cars than actually came about--witness what progress has been made in other areas of model cars in the past 50+ years.

Art

[Art Anderson]

Scott,

To begin with, the "number" used in the model name callout on those cars refers to the engine displacement. This concept of fast (or fast looking!) touring cars from Mercedes Benz started, I believe with the 380K (3.8 liter), an example of which lived here in Lafayette for a number of years in the 1950's and 60's, almost exactly the same styling and coachwork as the first Classic Car kit from Italeri--their 500K Cabriolet (which can be more accurately described as a convertible phaeton or convertible victoria, due to its having a rear seat).

About 1935, M-B came out with a considerably larger straight 8, that being the 500K, and within a year or so, the even larger 540K. Now, the styling was anything but "fixed"--rather, on these cars, given their low production numbers, the rolling chassis was constructed at Stuttgart, with M-B supplying the "identifiers" such as radiator shell, perhaps fenders (or perhaps only dictating the styling cues there), dashboards and instrumentation (just as with other "top end" classic-era carmakers of the likes of say, Duesenberg, Rolls Royce, Minerva, Marmon, Hispano-Suiza, even Bugatti.). The bodywork (coachwork) on those swoopy, powerful M-B roadsters, coupes and cabriolets was done largely by known coachbuilders trusted by Mercedes Benz to produce finished cars that enhanced their marque.

So, it's not at all surprising that there were variations, although I do believe that there were some of these cars built, in different years, with identical lines, the only differences being their engines. Addtionally, the individual coachbuilders generally had their own in-house stylist or stylists, so naturally, there was some evolution of lines and shapes. But in any event, only a couple hundred of those cars were built, 1935-39.

Art

[my66s55]

I have the Entex 1936 Mercedes 540K in the larger scale. The supercharger on this model is the revised one. Ian, I think I know where your coming from with the "Works of art, nonetheless." I build a model sometimes because of the subject matter, not for its accuracy.

[Junkman]

No kidding. But as I have read it from my references, the engine-turned finishes were not from the factory. Both of the examples I posted above were from cars that have been criticized as "over-restored."

The colour is also wrong, and is often done wrong in restorations. Black was only used on show cars. Production cars had their engines painted Resedagrün RAL 6011.

Here is an overview of the RAL colours:

https://www.ral-farben.de/uebersicht-ral-classic-farben.html

[Art Anderson]

No kidding. But as I have read it from my references, the engine-turned finishes were not from the factory. Both of the examples I posted above were from cars that have been criticized as "over-restored."

I believe though, that it was not unusual for the original buyers of cars such as these to have "extra" finishing work done on them, perhaps not at the factory, but by the sales branch with whom they dealt.

In the case of Bugatti, "damascening" or engine-turning of engine blocks, cylinder heads, aluminum firewalls was almost standard factory practice though, it it was not an uncommon thing.

Art

[sjordan2]

Here's a Monogram Classic I never saw before.

One additional note: Most of the 540K coachwork was created at the Sindelfingen factory and allowed a great deal of owner customization, and only 70 chassis were bodied by independent coachbuilders. Regarding the 540K Spezial-Roadster, all 26 were designed at Sindelfingen and featured unique body lines and the raked split windscreen.

Edited August 23, 2011 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

500K and 540K were both available bodied by the factory (Sindelfingen) or as rolling chassis, bodied by custom coachbuilders. And they were also offered from the factory in several different chassis lengths... so between all the possible combinations of chassis lengths, factory or custom coachwork, there is a lot of variation from one car to the other.