JO-HAN Molds?

[Bob Ellis]

I just read all the posts about this topic with regard to Johan Models. My comments are based on what I remember and what I just read that seemed to make sense.

I believe Johan Models was not the main business of John Hanle. He was in the tool and die / machine shop type business that supported the Detroit auto environment. World War II also kept these guys very busy and wealthy. I know of a few companies that manufactured models to keep the employees busy when the regular business was slow.

I spent some time visiting companies in the Detroit area from 1983-1987. While it may have been nice in the '40s and '50s, by the '80s it was run down and dangerous. I remember saying to someone we were going to visit a company and the response was "be careful" and they had names for those sections. Looking at the buildings, you could tell it was once a happening place. What I saw was Burger Kings with armed guards and lots of barbed wire around buildings.

In the Fall of 1974, I requested a order form from X-el Products that showed available Johan models. Listed were lots of '60s flat box kits as well as promos. I bought for example a 1968 Plymouth Fury flat box kit and 1970 GTX promo for the amazing price of $2.00. Everything was $2.00. I was in college at the time so the sky wasn't the limit. I bought what I could.

I found out recently that X-el and Seville Enterprises was incorporated on 22 November 1974. What a coincidence. The owner was Frank Mandeville Jr. Everything started to unravel in the late '90s for that company. Anybody can research this on the internet.

While some may believe that Johan's troubles started in the '90s, I believe it began about 1972. Beginning in 1973, the only new model was the '73 Eldorado kit and promo. This was at best just warming up an old tool for another year. Johan had ran out of gas. It was dead but not broke yet. The quality in these kits were not always good either. Many times I opened '72 El Dorado kits to find broken parts.

To me, it is possible that X-el / Seville added some life to a dead company. I am guessing that John Hanle was about 60-70 years old at the time and was tired. Along comes a guy by the name of Frank Mandeville who decides to re-run a lot of old tools and promos. About 1974 or 1975 the first batch of USA Oldies are available. In the Fall of 1975, the first 4 promos are available at $8 each and in different color combos; 1955 Pontiac, 1956 Pontiac, 1956 Desoto and 1956 Plymouth. Not exactly the most exciting cars, but a nice start for vintage collection.

Some more cars come out such as the '72 Torino and Rambler Scrambler in the next couple of years. Everything was sort of bits and pieces. Not everything matched like tail lights in a '69 Rambler that don't fit. But it was better than nothing.

The '80s bought out some of the best promos re-issues. The '58 Caddy and '58 Olds 98 were terrific as was the '59 Caddy. They cost $16 in 1986 but that was a deal.

The '90s was a downward spiral for Johan. Down the tubes, slow and sure. If the tools were still there, and in good condition, I am not sure anything could save the company especially re-running old kits. Gone were the days when the car companies help subsidize new model car kits. Promos in the summer, kits in the fall essentially stopped in 1972 and entirely for Johan in 1979 with the last Deville. And if the subsidies still were, technology and demographics would have killed Johan. Young people would rather play electronic games and computers than build models.

Finally, making more Johan kits is fighting with your ghost. There is still a lot of there at prices not that high. The '65 to '67 kits are rare, that's true. I suspect those tools have been missing a very long time. They were probably gone before the USA Oldies arrived. But then again, who knows.

[Eshaver]

Amazing .......................................

[ZTony8]

I'm wondering why no company has reverse engineered some of the 60s Jo-Han kits to produce them now.Legal complications?Lack of interest?Cost?Something else?

[niteowl7710]

Well the bodies might be usable for dimensions maybe, but if you were cutting new steel you might as well replace the way shallow interior, promo chassis, metal axles through the engine block. At that point it'd be easier to start from scratch.

Certainly there would be interest in some of the subjects JoHan did, but I'm not sure trying to trying to recreate JoHan is the way to go about that.

[lordairgtar]

I remember seeing a drawing of a 66 Chevelle blue print on a desk in a photo of stuff inside JoHan. Was that going to be a new kit just before the fall? Shortly after, Lindberg released theirs.

[Casey]

I remember seeing a drawing of a 66 Chevelle blue print on a desk in a photo of stuff inside JoHan. Was that going to be a new kit just before the fall? Shortly after, Lindberg released theirs.

I think it's a '67, based on the hood "vents":

[gtx6970]

Well the bodies might be usable for dimensions maybe, but if you were cutting new steel you might as well replace the way shallow interior, promo chassis, metal axles through the engine block. At that point it'd be easier to start from scratch.

Certainly there would be interest in some of the subjects JoHan did, but I'm not sure trying to trying to recreate JoHan is the way to go about that.

Agreed.

[lordairgtar]

I think it's a '67, based on the hood "vents":

thanks Casey.

[Casey]

thanks Casey.

As soon as you mentioned it, I remembered the photos Hans originally posted, for which I can't thank him enough. I truly appreciate him doing that, as an inside look at the JO-HAN building is something most of us never had the chance to do, and never will again.

More JO-HAN lit found on eBay (I think):

[slusher]

Is the 71 Comet Testor produced and the display cases AMT produced from molds that was once owned by Johan??

[slusher]

is the Monogram Mercedes 540k from Johan molds and the Linberg Richard Petty 64 Plymouth ???

[Guest]

Well the bodies might be usable for dimensions maybe, but if you were cutting new steel you might as well replace the way shallow interior, promo chassis, metal axles through the engine block. At that point it'd be easier to start from scratch.

Certainly there would be interest in some of the subjects JoHan did, but I'm not sure trying to trying to recreate JoHan is the way to go about that.

With the exception of the full detail Turbine car. If someone could get that tooling and clean it up, it would sell like crazy.

[tim boyd]

I just re-read this entire thread, including the pictures from my old friend Hans Kihlen of Sweden (Hans did a Modeler's Corner type column for Sweden's "Wheels" magazine for many years...).

I also compared the info here with what Dennis Doty told me back in the day (in the 1970's, Dennis lived in Old Redford, a neighborhood on the northwest edge of Detroit, and he would do projects from time to time for Joe Hanle). The descriptions here of Mr. Hanle do not seem too out of line with what I remember Dennis telling me about him.

Earlier on in this thread, Mark and others commented on JoHan's move into drag and racing topics circa 1971 or so. Just to agree, these kits were among the best offered in the industry at the time. So for those that haven't already seen it, here's a link to a buildup I completed 2 1/2 years ago of the JoHan Mickey Thompson Mustang Funny Car kit.

Best Regards....TIM

http://public.fotki.com/funman1712/tim-boyd-on-line-mo/tim-boyd-on-line-ho1/

[Edsel-Dan]

AMT's And Revell's Show cases are Completely Separate from the Old Jo-Han cases.

Jo-Han was First to offer them by Several years.

The Monogram Mercedes 540 is 1/24 scale while Jo-Hans kit was 1/25.

Also The Jo-Han kit had features the Monogram kit did not.

More parts, Finer detail, etc.

[Tom Geiger]

Casey, those old flyers with the painted promos remind me of trying to order those when I first got back in to modeling. The colors weren't important to me since I intended to blow them apart and build detailed models out of them. In my first order I made a 1st and 2nd color choice per their instructions. I got my order and check back, with a note that said all my color choices were gone. I replied with a new order that said ANY COLOR. I got that order back with my check stating "Must select colors". I gave up at that point.

[Casey]

I gave up at that point.

Yeah, you really get an idea of just how small and fractured things were at JO-HAN/X-EL during that time period. It seems like they were always barely hanging on, trying to meet expenses, and just stay in business. It's amazing they stayed in business as long as they did.

[Casey]

Those big cars would be candidates for the legendary employee thefts. I understand that the tooling was done in expensive high quality steel called berillium and was valuable as scrap. The body slugs would have been big and heavy, but small enough to conceal and get out of the factory. So I doubt those tools exist today.

Looking at another pic taken by Hans, we can see some of the inserts for the '69 Roadrunner(?) were actually quite small-- some small enough to fit into a pocket-- so it would be a easy to sneak a few out at the end of the work day. Once a critical insert, such as the bucket seats or dashboard is missing, the tooling is essentially useless. I can only imagine how frustrating that must've been for employees at the time, reaching the point where they felt their only recourse was to steal the hardware used to make the kits which eventually paid their wages and sell it for scrap.

[JS23U]

Amazing that the 69 and 70 GTX promos and some others were still available in the late 70s!

[Motor City]

In the fall of 1974, I had a break of several hours between college classes. Instead of an extended lunch, studying, or playing pinball, I decided to drive down to the Jo-Han factory on Moran Street in Detroit. That year, Detroit set a murder rate record for the city that has not been surpassed. To put it mildly, it wasn't a safe city to drive in. The neighborhood was a bit run down, and I had to be buzzed in. The woman was very helpful when I told her that I wanted to buy some model cars. She had me wait several minutes. While I waited for her to come back, I admired the models on display in their showcases. She came back with a bunch of promos and kits. She thought the '68 442 kit was missing some parts (it wasn't). Here is what I got:

'68 442 kit, '69 Toronado kit, '71 442 kit, '72 442 kit, '69 Coupe de Ville promo, '69 Eldorado promo, '71 Toronado kit, '72 Toronado kit, '72 Eldorado kit, '69 GTX promo, '70 GTX promo, and '71 AMX kit. The price was $3.00 each plus tax! I only have half of them now. Had I known, I would have kept them all!

A couple of years later, I was taking a Marketing class and made arrangements to visit the MPC and Jo-Han factories (AMT wasn't interested, as I recall). The MPC guy was very helpful, giving me sales information and marketing strategy, but no tour of the plant. When I got to Jo-Han, they didn't want to give me the tour. I told the person that they PROMISED me a tour, so they relented. The Moran headquarters was nothing special as I recall. I met the owner, John Hanley, who seemed rather quiet. I was driven a few blocks over to the injection molding plant, an old building with no sign to indicate what it was. Most of the workers there were women, which was a bit of a surprise to me. I watched some of the operations, but production wasn't exactly booming there in 1976. They were working the machines and pulling parts off of the molds. I don't recall if any assembly was going on.

On a related issue, the thread regarding Testors snap kits had some comments about Jo-Han snap kits. I was very unhappy with these kits. I had most of them. What I found galling were the large-diameter plastic axles and cheap, hard tires. The axles would not be easy to swap out with metal ones so the cars could roll. The comments about the '75 Cutlass grille were correct, too. I knew there was something wrong with it, but never compared it to the real car.

[DumpyDan]

Thanks for the story Jim, I enjoyed it. Lucky guy.

[disabled modeler]

Jim that is a great story....I was and am a HUGE fan of the Johan kits....even there snaps and promo like kits. I had a few you listed but there gone now...I use to own a real...72 Olds Toronado it was my first real car...someday maybe Ill find a few of the ones I use to own.

[pharoah]

Great story. As for most of the employees being women ,I hate yo say it bet women made less money per hour than men.

I worked at a factory that had some injection molding presses,and it's still mostly women.

[disabled modeler]

Great story. As for most of the employees being women ,I hate yo say it bet women made less money per hour than men.

I worked at a factory that had some injection molding presses,and it's still mostly women.

One of the reasons women are hired for those and other spots are they have greater hand dexterity than most guys...makes me wonder why you don't see more women builders there good with crafts,etc. and your right they usually get paid less for the same jobs???

[slusher]

Great story...

[Randytheroadrunner]

Some of the most accurate Mopar bodies I have are Jo-Han. Wish I still had all of them. I've been picking up a few here and there to build with other chassis and drivetrains.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Randytheroadrunner