3-D Printing is now affordable

[Edsel-Dan]

Why did anyone say a car, etc body could not be printed due to lack of internal material.

Aren't they Suppose to be hollow??

The only solid models I have are the trophy tops in a few kits, and maybe one or 2 OLD Diecast

ones, one Old wooden one and a few of the Cast "Wooden Ooden" nascars.

Since we go to so much trouble detailing the interior, why would anyone think the body would be printed out solid?

They can print out a Working Assembled Adjustable wrench why not a correct hollow car, etc body??

In-fact, isn't a member here doing just that for resin masters??
Amphicar, etc??

As to replacing kits, not for several years. 50-100?? Maybe

So far, what I see as the most difficult part will be the cement needed.

Plastruct uses ABS for their primary offereings, Sheet, tube, etc. I still have not

found the right cement/glue for them, even that offered BY Plastruct is no where

near as good as plain old testor's tube can be on Kit styrene,

Evergreen & even Plastruct's Styrene accept it just as well.

Superglue/ACC, & even epoxy are not that good at holding on Plastruct's material.

If the printout is even close to that..................

[Harry P.]

I don't know how many of you guys watch "This Old House," but a couple of seasons ago they featured an architectural firm that prints out their models on a 3-D printer. The models come out of the printer completely detailed inside and out... roof shingles, doors and windows, even interior wall and floor finishes...in full 3-D and in full color... right out of the printer! And this was a couple of years ago! Can there be any doubt that this technology is right around the corner for all of us?

[CadillacPat]

Thank you Casey,

Harry I understand youir anxiousness,

What I don't underxstand is why my responses are not read and understood clearly.

I am glad you have agreed with me that it may be "coming" and that you finally admitted it could take a decade. That is 10 years.

But, all this talk about it being here and ready to put on top of our desks and replace what we have used for 75 years is ludicrous.

Office Depot where I get all my printers does not have anything that will print out Models. I've never heard of anyone in Houston having one at home on their desk.

I haven't addressed anything by Martinfan for some time for obvious reasons. I've been told to just ignore him.

I don't need or care about extra post counts.

Tell you what Harry,

I can see this whole 3D thing is very emotional for you, your own personal crusade, and being as overtly passionate about it as you are may mean you are also passionate for other aspects of the Hobby. Hopefully.

So, you can have all and any future threads about supposed 3D Printing. It's all conjecture anyway.

No one here is posting pics of the complete Models with all their parts, that they have printed on a 3D Printer.

I don't care about one obscure person printing out distributor caps or tiny non essential pieces where durability and precision does not matter.

What I do find backwards is, this is a Forum.

I have seen 25 DieCast Customizing Forums crumble and vanish from cliques only allowing viewpoints ffrom a selective group of favorite Members.

I see the same thing on several other Model Forums.

Nobody else who disagreed with this subject was attacked or even replied to, just me.

I did not try to steal anyone's thunder, just present a realistic point of view.

Remember, change means being able to accept another person's viewpoint.

Change just for the sake of change is meaningless and does not necessarily make things better.

If Barbara Eden (Genie for those who don'[t know) pops out of the bottle tomorrow morning and has a magic Printer it will still only be interesting to a small percentage of those who build Models.

CadillacPat

Edited January 17, 2013 by CadillacPat

[Harry P.]

Pat, I don't get why you feel like you're somehow being attacked.

We all have our own opinions. You, me, everyone. And we're all free to post our opinions. As far as 3-D printing goes, yes, you and I disagree. But we can disagree without feeling like we're attacking each other, right?

The whole point of a forum is expressing our views. We're never going to all agree on anything. There are just way too many members here to think that we could all ever agree on anything. But disagreements and opposing viewpoints don't mean that the people who disagree are enemies. I have my opinion on 3-D printing... and you have yours. Time will tell which of us was right.

[martinfan5]

I haven't addressed anything by Martinfan for some time for obvious reasons. I've been told to just ignore him.

I don't need or care about extra post counts.

Remember, change means being able to accept another person's viewpoint.

CadillacPat

Why not?, I responded to what you said, without resorting to being rude to you, trying to be respectful to you. What does anything have to do with extra post counts?

Just like Harry said no of us are going agree on everything in life, and thats just a part of life.

Again no one is saying that 3D printing is going to be on everyones desk's tomorrow , its going to take time for it to come into the hobby and be just as mainstream if you will like resin casting is.

Why dont you like 3D printing?, or why do you come off as being opposed to it?, sure its not going to be perfect, its going to take time for it, and there are draw backs to it as well.

Edited January 17, 2013 by martinfan5

[Chas SCR]

Pat you have to look at it like this, The C-N-C lathes only been main stream since 1983 and programing and such. Now you can have one in your house since 1990s. This is only going to go so fast and it will take time. Not a lot of people are going to understand how to do it other then the younger kids as they are learing this type stuff already in school. Just like I remember the day we were able to to be 1 of 3 High Schools in Michigan to have a C-N-C mill, When we did the VoEd compitition at GM in 1984 there was only 19 kids in that group that could run the machine. That was out of all the school in Michigan. Now look at it. They are passed that and learing engineering in high school level now with the computers. The same is going to be with this 3d printing. If you can buy one just to play around I strong'ly would do it if you are young enuff to under stand the programing. The older group of people are not going to go out of this circle and do such a thing. Yes the price will be down to a point but I will say you will not see any thing under $300 plus you still have to buy a program of some kind. The way computers are out dated every 2 years I would say a package deal for a good one that can make parts smooth as normal kit body and they have it already down to that point. You are looking at $400 will be the lowest for the full package.

[Lownslow]

Any pictures of parts or cars made? I would like to see the quality.

Heres stuff i had made before i learned about Meshes and Polygon counts making a difference in finish.

this is another builders work this displays the quality of the various materials price point reflects output.

[martinfan5]

How durable is it?, is it on the same level as a kit?,resin?

[Janthlie]

And with 3d scanners begining to become cheap as well, the design will become more easy as well. At 123DCatch you can upload normal pictures, 20-40 of the subject, and get a 3d rendering you can use. So designwise its getting a lot easier too. You dont need to have superskillz in 3d modeling anymore to get good models for 3d printing.

[Lownslow]

How durable is it?, is it on the same level as a kit?,resin?

Very, depending on your design i learned from my prototypes now every wheel i get made is a 3 piece wheel. Yes but then that also depends on its design, my wheels look raw because in order to get a smoother model they needed to have a higher polygon(triangles) count the ones i posted fall between 14k to 22k ive been trying to get my count up to 50k. The ones i have are like a resin compound never ordered anything less than SLA printed models so i cant say for the compound of the other 2 but theyre either PLA or ABS.

[niteowl7710]

There's a reasonably large group of younger guys and gals for whom this would all be second nature. They've been "zModding" cars in Need for Speed, Grand Theft Auto, etc for almost a decade now. The most talented designers can create an entire car from "scratch" into incredibly realistic 3D models. I have to believe those skills would be tangible in this new media as well.

[raildogg]

I may have replied to this idea before, but. I am a member of, The Southern New Hampshire CNC Club, one of our members has a RepRap Printer with modifications. We had a demo of it's capabilities at a meeting and it is impressive. This is not, and I stress not an industrial grade machine. It uses the ABS filiment that is used primarily to weed your lawn. And Lownslow is correct, the more polygons the finer the surface quality. But, in order to increase those polygons, you need a CAD software that supports nurbs, and polygons, to make those files. It is generally very slow and tempermental at this stage of development, and must be extremely ridig in its design, something they don't tell you. Not as fine in surface quality as one would want for bodies, but good enough for wheel rims and other types of parts. It took nearly twenty minutes to print a guitar pick! Plus I think gluing is problematic, as is part support.

Sytems used by Shapeways and others is FDM, fused deposite media, I think. I was never good with acromymns. They act by depositing a fine layer of media, and a specilized printer head sprays a layer of glue, much like an ink jet printer does, one layer at a time, approx. .005mm to .010mm thick. The media stays in place to help support the part while being printed. Thus any imanigable shape can be made, and in some cases, with the proper media, put into service immediatly to evaluate its performance. The advent of fused deposit printing at home is still far off in the future, unless one is very ,very, savy and, very fairly well off, to build one at home.

In defence of all those who want one I say, kudos, it is cutting edge emerging technology. But for instant scale models it is still in its infantcy, and I'll hold out for a home built FDM machine. Currently CNC Milling and Routing is a viable solution to 3D printing to get things made, but as with all things, it is pricey. Think injection mold making another quickly eveolving technology, But that's another story for another time.

[Chuck Doan]

The materials I have have had printed so far have been similar to a hard resin, but quite brittle. Some sanding is required to smooth out the layer lines from printing. I have used ACC and epoxy for assembly. Paint can be lacquer, enamel or acrylic (the parts can be cleaned in Acetone). Currently I think the most cost-effective use for these parts in our hobby is for making masters for casting, but I used the printed parts directly for this 1/24th scale lubester. (the tie rods are brass wire, some things just can't be printed yet).

Edited January 17, 2013 by Chuck Doan

[Harry P.]

Wow! Cool stuff, Chuck!

[NormL]

3D chocolate printing is my favorite. Edible car models, when you get tired of them you can get fat...

[martinfan5]

3D chocolate printing is my favorite. Edible car models, when you get tired of them you can get fat...

I can see that happing too :lol:

[Darren B]

The materials I have have had printed so far have been similar to a hard resin, but quite brittle. Some sanding is required to smooth out the layer lines from printing. I have used ACC and epoxy for assembly. Paint can be lacquer, enamel or acrylic (the parts can be cleaned in Acetone). Currently I think the most cost-effective use for these parts in our hobby is for making masters for casting, but I used the printed parts directly for this 1/24th scale lubester. (the tie rods are brass wire, some things just can't be printed yet).

Chuck very impressive indeed!!! That is what I originally started the thread about is parts, yes trd is doing bodies but im sure their printer or where they may outsource their printing to probably has a huge very exspensive set up. What im wanting to do with mine is small stuff like this thing right here...

[Brett Barrow]

First real mainstream impact will be in making masters for resin casters. It's already happening in the military side, Eduard's "Brassin" resin line uses it, there's Live Resin, DEF Model, and I'm sure several others, these are just the first that popped into my mind.

I don't think STL will be the death of the hobby, I think it will become a part of it though, with parts printing services and many more resin parts available as a result, as well as better fitting and more accurate mainstream model kits (they're pretty much all using rapid prototyping now and a quite a few models have been mastered with 3D "scanning" tools - see Wingnut Wings' 1/32 line of WWI airplanes).

[Danno]

Cadillac Pat's position reminds me of those guys sitting around in '58 whittling blocks of balsa wood into vague caricatures of blocky old cars, saying, "Fergit dem dag-nab plastical model car kits in da boxes down at da five-n-dime! That dadgum AMT ain't never gonna amount to nuttin' and dey's no way annybuddy's gonna buy dem dad-burn 3-n-1 thingies when dey kin jes carve up demselfs a piece of dis here balsa like we always been dune!"

They were clairvoyant, too.

[jeffs396]

Here's an example of EXCELLENT printed parts used as masters for casting:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65897&hl=vectors

Lots of items available on Shapeways site for purchase in a variety of popular scales, you can choose the print media, etc. This tech is advancing rapidly and it will help us build better, more accurate replicas!

[Casey]

Cadillac Pat's position

What's your position/opinion on 3D printing, Dan? We've heard plenty about Pat's and many other people's thoughts on the actual topic, but none from you in four pages so far.

[Casey]

Currently I think the most cost-effective use for these parts in our hobby is for making masters for casting, but I used the printed parts directly for this 1/24th scale lubester. (the tie rods are brass wire, some things just can't be printed yet).

I think that's just what Joseph and Frank are doing right now, and I tend to agree with your assessment. Once the resolution gets high enough that the human eye can't see the texture nor layers, I will be fully on board with 3D printing.

I want to draw a parallel between 3D printers and dye sublimation (ALPS) printers, which can print both white and metallic colors, but I'm not so sure they can be evenly compared yet. Having owned an APLS 5000 over s decade ago, I found the printer difficult to work with, but still managed to print out some custom 1/16 scale Funny Car decal sheets I wanted. While I was able to get the artwork drawn in Photoshop and Illustrator and could (eventually) get the decals to print on the decal paper, I eventually sold the printer as the time investment in creating the artwork was more than I was willing to invest at that time. I wonder if the same thing will happen with designing/creating 3D design files, and if we'll be hearing a similar, but slightly different complaint in the future. "These 3D '69 Camaros and '57 Chevy sedan deliveries are great, but I thought once we had 3D technology we'd have '48 Tuckers, '33 Dodge pickups, and '77 Olds Cutlasses available?"

[martinfan5]

I think that's just what Joseph and Frank are doing right now, and I tend to agree with your assessment. Once the resolution gets high enough that the human eye can't see the texture nor layers, I will be fully on board with 3D printing.

I want to draw a parallel between 3D printers and dye sublimation (ALPS) printers, which can print both white and metallic colors, but I'm not so sure they can be evenly compared yet. Having owned an APLS 5000 over s decade ago, I found the printer difficult to work with, but still managed to print out some custom 1/16 scale Funny Car decal sheets I wanted. While I was able to get the artwork drawn in Photoshop and Illustrator and could (eventually) get the decals to print on the decal paper, I eventually sold the printer as the time investment in creating the artwork was more than I was willing to invest at that time. I wonder if the same thing will happen with designing/creating 3D design files, and if we'll be hearing a similar, but slightly different complaint in the future. "These 3D '69 Camaros and '57 Chevy sedan deliveries are great, but I thought once we had 3D technology we'd have '48 Tuckers, '33 Dodge pickups, and '77 Olds Cutlasses available?"

Good points made, I think with 3D printers, its going to come to down to how well you can use 3D software, or more so learning the 3D software, I am guessing, but I am sure the learning curve is a little greater then artwork software to learn.

I am very interested to see how the hobby adapts 3D printing

[Ace-Garageguy]

Some people pick up new skills and tech readily, some don't. Some software designers don't know enough about the end user's needs to make easily-learned software. But, and it's a big but, CAD software has become so much easier and intuitive since its inception (not to mention the skyrocketing of capability and the plummeting of price) that I can only see a similarly rapid development of relatively easy-to-learn user-interfaces for hobby applications if the market seems to support the required investment of talent and capital.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

I don't think you'll need to know much about 3-D software. Pretty sure these things will be available with very intuitive, user-friendly software that doesn't require a nuclear physicist to figure out.

Actually, the way I see it (no, I'm not a psychic, just seems like a logical inference)... is that people will buy these printers to use at home, but they will buy the things they want to output from suppliers, not create it themselves. Say a model company adopts this technology. The way I see it working is that they would sell the consumer models (or parts or whatever) in the form of a digital download... like we download music. You buy whatever item you want from the manufacturer, and you download an electronic file that you then run through your own 3-D printer to create that item. For example, instead of going online and ordering a set of aftermarket wheels from Pegasus that they had to first manufacture, and package, and warehouse, and ultimately ship to you... you would buy the wheels in the form of a downloadable digital file and "create" the wheels at home on your own printer.