What type and brand of rattle can primer do you use?

[clovis]

Thank you for all of the helpful replies!!!! They are appreciated!!!

I was about to pull my hair out looking for the Krylon primer that I liked so much. I like the quality of the primer, but I also loved the spray nozzle on the can. It isn't the old school type, and it isn't the new "comfort nozzle" either.

Since I am facing a serious deadline with this 4-H model, I decided to buy the Tamiya fine white primer. Generally speaking, I am not a fan of Tamiya paints. I also had a serious case of sticker shock when I saw that the Tamiya primer is $11.99 at Hobby Lobby....for such a small can. I nearly fell over when I saw that price.

As I was picking myself off the floor, my wife wandered down to the regular spray paint section...and I found the Krylon, with the spray nozzle that I like!!!

After calling Krylon, and then visiting 15 stores, I finally found the stuff that I was looking for!!!! I am thinking about buying 6 more cans, just so I'll never run out.

One of these days, I would like to try the Tamiya and the 1:1 brands that have been mentioned in this thread.

Again, thank you!!!!!!!

[Speedfreak]

Gene, What are you implying?

That flying monkey's can spread viruses to humans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I use Tamiya gray & white primer(s). They work well. That's not to say that other primers don't work well. I have limited experience and the Tamiya stuff is easy to use so that's what I've latched onto in my desperate attempts at achieving quality paint jobs.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Speedfreak

[jwrass]

Not buying it!!!! but all is cool! respectfully, jwrass

[Speedfreak]

[Ridge Rider]

I love Tamiya spray primer but don't like the price. After some experimenting with different box stores, I've come to like the Rust-oleum 2x ultra cover in white and grey. It covers quick, dries fast, needs minimal if any sanding and is under 4 dollars at Home Depot. It is the closest to Tamiya, in my opinion, that I have found in a spray can at a reasonable price. Obviously you can go 1:1, but for the hobbyist these these have worked well for me.

[fitforbattle]

We all have our favorites when it comes to everything. I'm sure I would benefit from using the "real deal" that James "jwrass" talks about, and when I get a chance, I'll def. try some. But due to my location, the Tamiya stuff isn't expensive (lucky me) and I've always had pleasing results, and isn't that the point? That we should all use what we like and what gives us the results we're after.

If you're not happy with what you have, for some reason, then try something new. And it's in those situations, tips from the "real deal users" really come in handy.

[Tom Geiger]

That flying monkey's can spread viruses to humans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure if flying monkeys host deer ticks or if they are all wearing flea collars?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Duplicolor for the most part.

That seems to be the old standard, and I've been using Duplicolor gray, white and red oxide, all in high-build OR sandable (sandable and high-build are 2 different product lines), depending on the application. What I DON'T like about Duplicolor is that it tends to clog sandpaper, even when wet-sanded. I've found a local CarQuest that carries Plasticoat, and I'll be doing some head-to-head testing shortly...along with the NAPA material recommended by jwrass.

If I'm hitting bodywork, I use SEM etching primer, being careful of trim areas since it's a high-build primer. For finish priming, I too use the Tamiya fine white.

In my market, SEM self-etching and high-build are two different products.

The self-etching flows out nice and slick if you shoot it wet, but it's hot for some plastics, and may badly craze the surface. Shooting it slightly dry will mitigate the problem somewhat, and it still flows quite well, leaving very little surface graininess.

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This is the SEM self-etching black, shot wet over an ancient Johan body. The old Johan styrene plastic is tough enough to get away with it, and the primer flows out well, leaving a nice satin sheen. The gray is Duplicolor high-build (scratch-filling), shot medium-wet over bodywork. I should have masked the chrome detail under the fin to keep from filling it too, and that's why I stopped shooting the gray after one light coat.

The high-build products are not as hot, and do seem to work well for filling bodywork. They also seem to be hotter than Duplicolor, and the solvents will attack underlying areas of other primers or fillers, so be sure to let them flash off very well before re-coating.

I've done a lot of testing of SEM and Duplicolor in various layers over various plastics and substrates, and I've learned what works for me.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[jwrass]

Skara, I couldn't agree with you more! What ever works for individual that's what you should use. And yes we shouldn't be afraid to try something new.

I would like to make this perfectly clear! I have no allegiance to the NAPA brand. It's what has performed best for me and my style of painting, if I were to find something that performed better out of a rattle can I wouldn't hesitate to make a change, but for now I'll stick with the NAPA

Bill, I did do testing. I'm submitting the following products I used and the procedures I followed, I am looking forward to your tests to compare notes.

I used (.125) 1/8 styrene sign blank material. I sanded it dry with 400 grit followed by a red scuff pad. I cleaned the surface with a mixture of 20% Isopropyl Alcohol and 80% distilled water (mixed by volume) this kills the static electricity charge created by rubbing the plastic. It's a old pinstriping trick used when striping fiberglass, helmets, anything plastic for that matter. I have also used static to my advantage on say a taped out panel on a helmet, I can rub the substrate to create a static charge on the surface, load a striping brush and the charge will pull the paint out of the brush in a very random pattern like old school cob webbing only much more funky. Try this solution before you paint and I guarantee you will have less dust in your top coats because you killed the static charge.

In full disclosure I did this test in February when I stumbled on to the NAPA primer while buying a belt for my Snowblower ( I can hear the laughing from here with the folks in the sunbelt) I did not time anything with a watch or document on paper, I did this out of personal curiosity, I did however try to be as consistent as possible as I wanted to get a fair comparison. At the time of the test I had not used any of the NAPA brand. Before I used the NAPA brand I had the best results with the Mar-Hyde brand.

Products are as follows: BullDog adhesion promoter # ETPO123B,TamIya Fine Surface Primer # 87064 Lt Grey, Dupli-Color Filler Primer # FP101 Lt Grey, Plasti-Kote Sandable Primer # T-235 Gray, Mar-hyde Sandable Primer no # Med Grey, Omega Sanding Primer # 130-2 Dark Grey. Rust-Oleum Sandable Primer #249419 Red Oxide, NAPA/ Martin Senour # 7283 Red Primer Surfacer. That's seven brands of primer, all lacquer based

Procedures: After sanding and cleaning as described above I performed the following: Two lite coats of bulldog adhesion promoter with 10-15 minuets flash times between coats in an effort to not trap solvents, I do watch the clock for minimums however I go more by sight and feel through my experience, when the solvents have flashed you should have a dull flat appearance if you have a sheen the solvents are still trying to flash, it is not wise to add more material at this time.

After the adhesion promoter flashed I applied three semi wet coats of primer with adequate flash times between coats as to avoid solvent trapping. Solvent trapping is the enemy!!!! especially with Lacquer, (any paint really) when you trap solvents you can get sand scratch swelling, pinholes and a whole host of others goodies, My personal favorite (not) is ghosting of body work, sand scratch swelling, signs of feather edging in the top coat. if you get to this stage of the game with exotic finishes such as candies and pearls it's pretty much game over. You can repair standard finishes but with exotics you most likely are going to have to start over, I have saved some exotics but I attribute that to dumb luck more than skill. I found the flash times of the primers to be all over the board, based on my experience and with helping HOK develop their striping urethane I attribute the longer flash times to amount plastisizers in the formula, I have no scientific data to support my opinion as I don't have the formulas of each brand, however I do know that all automotive (solvent based) paints have plastisizers (resin) in their formulas

I let the panels dry for a few days and performed a sanding test, I used two types of sanding material and did all of the sanding dry as I felt this was the best way to test the sandpaper on the primered substrate as the water in wet sanding acts as a lubricant and would not give me the results I was looking for.

I used a blue 220 grit sanding stick and 400 grit aluminum oxide open coat paper. I tried to sand with equal pressure to obtain a fair evaluation I did not keep track of strokes, I sanded each primer until it produced powder and then checked the paper for loading. The primers with the most resins in their formulas loaded the paper quicker. I do remember this the Rust-Oleum and Plasti-Kote loaded the paper the most, the NAPA brand loaded the paper the least with the Mar-Hyde not far behind with the others falling somewhere in the middle.

When time permits I may do another test with pictures showing the loading of the paper, but I'm satisfied with how the NAPA brand performs for me so that's low on my list of things to do.

Loading of the paper is just one aspect of how a primer performs and really the least important as that can be compensated for, the real test is how it reacts to top coats, does it swell, do you get sand scratches, ghosting, color hold out.

I did not top coat any of the other primers only the NAPA brand. I did not do so because when I found the foundation I liked I went with that and have had success with that product.

It has been my experience that painting is a practice in patience, if you rush the process the more likely you will have problems. I know this from personal experience as I have blown a paint job or too along the way, When we do a full on candy or pearl 1:1 it's a eight to ten hour process and that's just booth time. I had a great mentor years ago that had a saying "When in doubt wait it out" I have found those words to ring true many times in my journey of Custom Paint

In closing, I know we are only working with a plastic model kit and if you blow it's not the end of the world! You get another kit or throw it in the pond. But why waste time in do overs. I don't care what product is used, if you use best practices your chances of success are much greater!

Respectfully Submitted, jwrass

[Ace-Garageguy]

Great info. Thanks for taking the time and effort.

And your statement "It has been my experience that painting is a practice in patience, if you rush the process the more likely you will have problems" is absolutely spot-on.

[Speedfreak]

Speedfreak, on 26 Jun 2014 - 5:02 PM, said:

That flying monkey's can spread viruses to humans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure if flying monkeys host deer ticks or if they are all wearing flea collars?

I heard they wear Stetson's and like to watch John Wayne movies.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Speedfreak

[10thumbs]

Gene, could you please let it be.

I like the info here, some of these guys know their stuff.

I think your trolling, and off topic.

Sorry guys, and thanks too for the valuable info.

Michael

Edited June 29, 2014 by 10thumbs

[jwrass]

Bill, Thank You! I look forward to seeing your results!!! In retrospect I wish I would have taken notes as I never really thought it would be a topic of discussion and it was long before I joined this site. I did the best I could from memory! With my mini Alz and from breathing all the junk for years I surprised myself.

Michael, Always willing to help and share, Thank you my friend!

I have always been fairly diligent about wearing lung protection even before it was as popular as it is today. Wear breathers!!!!! this stuff will and can hurt you. Especially the Isocyanates in two part paints, these are nerve toxins and can kill you! I have seen the effects and damage done by not wearing lung protection and buried a few along the way. I personally have not seen any effects that I have been harmful to me YET. Do you and your loved ones a favor, wear proper lung protection!!!! jwrass

[10thumbs]

For us guys living outside of the US, we're gonna have fun finding something similar to NAPA stuff. We have Duplicolor here in Germany, and I do like their grey primer, it fills nicely and dries fast, and seems at least to me to be compatible to other brands.

I may have to bend someones ears to get closer info about ingredients, so that I can maybe get close to what you guys are recommending.

Michael

[Dale W. Verts]

Question- What's a "snowblower" and who makes the kit? Never seen one before... (from the northern edge of the sunbelt).

Dale

[Speedfreak]

Thanks Michael, I wasn't trolling , (I think that's painfully apparent) but, I was off topic. My apologies everyone.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Speedfreak

[jwrass]

Dale, I wish it was something that gave me great pleasure! Maybe I should look into having one cast in resin, A big fuel motor, Halibrands with wrinkle walls! Nah talking about throughing money down a rat hole that would be one way of doing it, although I have seen Worshems fuel motored Margarita Mixer (not in use on display) I bet that thing mixes them in record time. Now that would be a party!!!!

[booboo60]

The wal mart is ok, duplicolor is better,Tamiya Fine White Surface Primer is best as far my point goes! It cost more! Get less! But no probs

[MustangGuy23]

I'm about to start my first few models I've ever done in full paint and I dropped 8 bucks (40% coupon at Hobby Lobby) on Tamiya primer after passing up other brands for half that. Hope it's worth it!

[booboo60]

m.guy, Watch and check the humidity,it will trash it, Wash parts and dry, and when you spray quick light pass's, dry and reapply as needed, should work good, I live in Fl, and the humidity plays hell on painting outside,,good luck and spray lightly

[my80malibu]

Being a 1:1 Custom Painter I don't use any modeling paint because ( I've tried them all) they have to much plastisizers and not enough filler in their formulas for my taste. I am used to having primers powder up nice and not clog the sand paper when I block sand dry. The model paints just don't do what I want them to do because of the high content of plastiziers.

I have found a few rattle can products that perform like 1:1 and can be found at NAPA under the Martin Senior Brand. They are Lacquer based true primer surfacers with a fan spray head and come in 15 oz cans for $12.99 they are # 7283 Red Primer Surfacer, 7284 Hot Rod Grey (it's really black) and they have a lite grey which I don't have the # for.

These lay on so nice, dry fast and sand like 1:1. No reaction to top coats!!!!

Do yourself a favor and step back from the model paint primers!!! You and your builds will Thank You for it!!!!!

I bought some of the Gray Primer. Martin Senour brand #7285 and used it this week on my Oldsmobile. I am very Impressed with the results. As follows Quick drying, Easy sanding, Great coverage, and a Larger Quantity. I had to Order mine, but it only took a few hours to get it. I imagine they would carry it in the store if I asked.

Thanks James for the Tip on this.

Edited July 13, 2014 by my80malibu

[jwrass]

Gabriel, I'm glad you tried it and had good results! Works great for me!

Cheers jwrass

[Mike 1017]

In my opinion primer is primer. I think that that the real difference is in the viscosity. Just remember that scratch filler will also fill panel lines and emblems. Add paint, clear coat and soon no panel lines

Out of all the primers I have used that cheap Wal Mart ($1:09) is the best. I also like that Krylon Dual Paint and Primer it comes out flat and is a very good. I use the white quite a lot.

Mike

[Miatatom]

I cleaned the surface with a mixture of 20% Isopropyl Alcohol and 80% distilled water (mixed by volume) this kills the static electricity charge created by rubbing the plastic. It's a old pinstriping trick used when striping fiberglass, helmets, anything plastic for that matter.

Respectfully Submitted, jwrass

James, is the alcohol 70% or 91%? Did you wipe it on or spray it? What did you use to remove it?

Edited July 13, 2014 by Miatatom

[jwrass]

Tom, I explain the mixture and application in more detail in the candy paint jobs thread in this section of the forum. I you have any questions after that give me a shout!jwrass