brewsterg6 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Just to throw my two cents in... and certainly not to disagree with Harry (or the others) but I am happy with how Revell has released the kit. All of the imperfections are easily corrected... certainly by the 98% of the builders on this site! For the few minor details wrong (or from a factory 150-not a black Widow) a person building this kit box stock for their own shelf will not really care. The only people truly this fussy are US!!!! The instructions for the fixes will be posted here anyways. I applaud Revells efforts on this kit, and am glad the errors are small and easily fixed... the worst mistake would have been to take the cheap way out and reissue a hardtop with decals to make a Black Widow... and leave us all really fuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I've been doing a little research tonight. Seems like SEDCO was really a group of GM Corporate backed Atlanta Chevy dealers (nudge nudge, wink wink) who took stock black and white 150s and turned them into NASCAR racecars. Many 150s raced in NASCAR that year, but only the black and white SEDCO-prepped cars became known as "Black Widows". Nobody knows how many were actually made, but all seem to agree that no more than 10 were made, and none, as far as anyone knows, still exist today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Just to throw my two cents in... and certainly not to disagree with Harry ... Feel free to disagree with me any time! That's what a forum is all about... give and take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Chevy published the "1957 Chevrolet Stock Car Competition Guide", outlining the SUGGESTED changes to make in order to create a race-ready car, but who knows how literally SEDCO (or anyone else, for that matter) followed those suggestions? All of the back-room, under the table wheeling and dealing that took place back then in the "wild and wooly" days of NASCAR will probably never be fully explained! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Strange that a NASCAR race car had a fuel injected engine... they've had nothing but carbys mostly throughout the series history, haven't they? About the engine in this kit--did GM make fuelie Bel Airs in '57--i.e. would this engine be correct in other '57 Chevy kits? I know GM experimented with FI in several cars in the late '50s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry57 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 From what I've learned over the years, any 57 chevy passenger car could have been ordered with either the 270 horse fuel injected engine or the 283 horse fuel injected engine with solid lifters. I have seen 2 150 sedans with correct date codded 270 horse fuel injected engines. The race prepped SEDCO cars had a larger fuel tank with four straps, six lug wheels, and the 283 horse engine. The fuel injected cars where later banned by nascar and they were all converted to dual four's. I have a 150 I've been building for a while, and cant wait to actually get the kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I've been doing a little research tonight. Seems like SEDCO was really a group of GM Corporate backed Atlanta Chevy dealers (nudge nudge, wink wink) who took stock black and white 150s and turned them into NASCAR racecars. Many 150s raced in NASCAR that year, but only the black and white SEDCO-prepped cars became known as "Black Widows". Nobody knows how many were actually made, but all seem to agree that no more than 10 were made, and none, as far as anyone knows, still exist today. Apparently, at least one SEDCO-built Black Widow does exist today, was a huge hit at shows and concours events in the early 90's, was featured in several magazines, including Muscle Car Review and Cars & Parts, with lots of detail pics. Ostensibly, the restorer(s) were able to trace many of the modifications back to SEDCO practice, based as well on recollections by people where there, around Nascar in those days. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Strange that a NASCAR race car had a fuel injected engine... they've had nothing but carbys mostly throughout the series history, haven't they? About the engine in this kit--did GM make fuelie Bel Airs in '57--i.e. would this engine be correct in other '57 Chevy kits? I know GM experimented with FI in several cars in the late '50s... Rob, Nascar was very much into the horsepower race of the 50's, and did allow things like fuel injection engines, AND supercharged ones as well (the '57 Ford supercharged V8 was aimed squarely at the Black Widow, in fact, did very well against Chevies all season long. However, Fuel Injection and supercharging were banned in I believe, April of 1957. As for fuel injected passenger car engines, those were available in any passenger car body style back then. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glue4U Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Hi. Your right Art. On April 23, 1957, NASCAR officially banned fuel injection, superchargers and multiple carburetors from Grand National racing, only a single four-barrel carb would be allowed. NASCAR´s explanation for it´s change of heart was that officials claimed they were trying to keep private racers in the fold by ensuring financial parity, not all privateers could afford that expensive induction hardware, which actually came for free to the factory teams "Big Boys". Then on June 6, everything changed direction as the Automobile Manufacturers Association also known as AMA, effectively banned automakers from actively participating in racing, something all in Detroit had always denied anyway, so the big factory teams where then instantly history. Some of the drivers of the Black Widow was: Buck Baker (#87) (who also became the NASCAR national champion in 1957 with 10 wins in 40 starts and finished 38 of the 40 starts in top 10.) Jack Smith (#47), Speedy Thompson (#46) and Rex White (#44).The exact numbers of the Black Widows produced by SEDCO is unknown, but according to a interview with Vince Piggins (the head of Chevrolets product promotion department back in the day) done by Super Chevy Magazine in 1981, it was as low as 10 because the SEDCO programs life was cut short. That´s a little history regarding the Black Widow. Best wishes Anders Lundstrom Malmo Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curt raitz Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) In the July/August issue of the now extinct "Motor Racing Replica" magazine is an article for building a model of the 1957 NASCAR Black Widow. I have a pdf. of this issue, but could not find a way upload it, any ideas on how it can be done? Edited March 3, 2009 by curt raitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Got mine today....did a quick once over of the trees and instructions...lots of parts in this one. The body and chrome look great, as do the fuelie engine parts. Some extras on the trees like 2 firewalls, 2 radiator panels.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glue4U Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi again. I have a article which i found on the Internet sometime ago but i can´t recall on which address, but here is some pictures of Buck Baker´s car (#87) and "Speedy" Thompson car (#46) painted all in black without the white on the back. This pictures is taken by i think someone in the Clements family who was servicing the cars. So i think this must be prior to the first race with the BW´s or something. To copyright reasons i do not wish to publicize the picture on this board, but if someone would like to have it, go to my profile and send me a e-mail message with your address and i would gladly send the article to you. Best wishes Anders L Malmo Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glue4U Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I have some more articles about the Black Widow. First of all i have a magazine called "Super Rod" from august 2000, where there is an article on page 26-32. Then i have two "Super Chevy" magazines, one from november 1995, where you on page 38-39 can read about a stock ´57 Chevy Utility Sedan, and then on page 70-71, 92-93 and page 116-117 about a replica racer depicting Buck Baker´s Nascar racer, and then one from october 1999 where you on the front cover can see a picture of Jack Smith´s #47 car and also on page 26 there is a small article about this car. I even has a article from "Hot Rod" magazine from august 1987 about what seems to be the only surviving original Black Widow car!!! If you are able to get your hands on this magazines or have them there is some great photos and story in them. Best wishes Anders L Malmo Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 From what I understand, the kit is missing the correct 6-lug wheels and truck tires specific to the Black Widow, missing the exhaust dumps for the BW, doesn't include the correct front seat (passenger side seatback removed), no driver's shoulder bolster, no correct 12-bolt rear end, etc. Nobody will be disappointed? Well, if you noticed, the side exhaust dumps go through a "notch" cut into the frame rails, which would mean either a filler piece for building it factory stock, or fudging it somehow. As for the seat bolster, that was something that probably was individually made to the tastes of each driver--so whose to use? Now, does the rear axle have any bolt detail in the diff cover? If not, pretty hard to count them, and very few kits have them unless a separate part. Also, those cars did NOT run truck tires!!! Firestone was already producing their Darlington Stock Car tires for use in Nascar and USAC (who also had a huge stock car division in '57)--in fact, Firestone was already producing racing tires for all forms of US motorsport--someplace I have their 1957 racing tire catalog. Now, to make a tire mold for one specific car is expensive, very expensive, unless there are other model kits for which those tires can be used--which would help amortize the tooling cost--do you want to kick up the price of the kit even more, for something that the vast majority who will buy it won't ever notice--and that majority ain't us who read the magazines. In short, I find it simply amazing that Revell did this kit in the first place, with additional parts and such for the Black Widow. When one thinks about it, pre-Winston Cup Nascar Stockers are truly "Dark Siders", very VERY obscure today for the average racing fan--even Nascar doesn't do much to promote the full history of their sport. Had this kit come out as specifically the Black Widow, I suspect that in the overall marketplace it would have been met with a huge collective "yawn", much as did the '64 Thunderbolt--just another old 2-door sedan, with some racing parts they don't understand a thing about. Art Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Banes Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Perfect response! What more can be said? I think the '57 150 is pretty nifty (I bought two), but I'm gonna like Revell's '32 five window a whole lot more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 ...The instruction sheet contains yet another of those highly amusing Revell typos, which are becoming quite common. In this case, it's references to the "right door handel" and "left door handel." Hmmm ... guess I can expect to hear a chorus of "hallelujahs" when I glue those in place? Just make sure you glue them in correctly, or you'll have to go Bach and redo them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Just make sure you glue them in correctly, or you'll have to go Bach and redo them... Thousands of comedians out of work because you turkeys are doing it for free. Booo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasman Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 This must be a popular kit because I've had a lot of trouble getting one. I stopped at two hobby Shops and they where sold out, stopped by another Michaels and they had a location for them on the shelf, but they didn't have any in stock. so i'm just gonna order one online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I think my next one's going to be a fictitious race car driven by one "Moe Zart" ... Just remember to post pix when you're done. Don't go Haydn your light under a bushel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Just make sure you glue them in correctly, or you'll have to go Bach and redo them... After a 5th of Beet Hoven to steady up the hands? Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaroman Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Glue guy, Too bad a mettling congress (sounds familar) strong-armed GM into a racing "ban" thus killing SEDCO. It would have been very interesting to see the results of the Hemi wars with GM's involvement..... Edited March 17, 2009 by camaroman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glue4U Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 True True True... Right on the spot Mr.Camaroman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Glue guy, Too bad a mettling congress (sounds familar) strong-armed GM into a racing "ban" thus killing SEDCO. It would have been very interesting to see the results of the Hemi wars with GM's involvement..... To understand the demise of superchargers and fuel injection in Nascar in 1957 is to also understand the climate surrounding motor racing world-wide in the middle of the decade. It really stems from 1955, the year that the great Bill Vukovich died, in a spectacular crash at Indianapolis, in front of thousands of people, his car flipping over the wall on the backstretch, narrowly missing dozens of spectators. Then in June, the French driver, Pierre Levegh, driving a 300SLR Gullwing for Mercedes in the 24 du heurs de LeMans, was unable to avoid an Austin Healey that slowed suddenly in front of him for a pit stop. Levegh's car ramped up over the back of the slowing Healey, catapaulting into the crowd across from the pits at LeMans. Levegh was killed, along with some 87 spectators, and a hundred or so more were injured. A media/political/governmental firestorm ensued, not just in France, but across Europe, Scandinavia and here in the US. American Automobile Association (AAA) disbanded their "Contest Board" at the end of the 1955 season (replaced by USAC), there were calls in Washington for the banning of all forms of motorsport, Time Inc. (primarily through LIFE Magazine, carried on a campaign for legislation outlawing racing altogether. In short, a huge hue and cry from all quarters for a few months. Some countries, most notable Sweden and Switzerland, passed laws banning racing altogether (Switzerland's is still in effect I believe), and after a disaster (similar to that at LeMans in 1955) at the Mille Miglia in Italy in 1957, even the FIA dropped its sanctioning of open-road racing. It even affected the "Horsepower Race" between the US Big Three for a while as well. It was Ford who proposed to the AMA (Automobile Manufacturer's Association) that they come to an agreement banning factory-supported auto racing, in the interest of promoting safety (this after Ford's unsuccessful push to promote safety in their 1956 models), which all the existing US carmakers signed on to in the late spring of 1957, right alongside NASCAR's banning of superchargers and fuel injection. Ford and Chrysler (Studebaker and AMC went along, seeing as neither one was sponsoring any racing activities to speak of) went along wholeheartedly, but at GM, racing stuff continued to flow out the back door surrepticiously for the next several years. This kept on, particularly with the arrival of "Wide Track" and the 421 at Pontiac, until it became once again a full-blown factory support of both Pontiac and Chevrolet at GM. Finally, Ford, then Chrysler, had had enough, and by 1961-62, all of the Big Three were back into factory supported racing, both NASCAR and NHRA, with Ford going all the way-"Total Performance" at Indianapolis, in NASCAR, International and domestic Sports Car Racing, and the Monte Carlo Rally. In the meantime however, government and the press had moved on to other issues, so that resurgence was pretty much a non-issue, except for a certain "bump in the road" in the person of Ralph Nader. Art Edited March 17, 2009 by Art Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Louis Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I got my two last weekend, and they will work real well for me. I intend to build the first two OOB as two of the BW race team, numbers and drivers TBD. I never build anything OOB so this will be a bit of a treat. The "hardest part" will be to make the large fuel tank. Maybe take two from the '56 and splice them together. I can always replace the missing tanks with something else "race appropriate", a cell or something. The truck tires are underwhelming, but finding replacements shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the under dash roll bar tip, whom ever said that! I didn't know about that! The bodies do look scaled out well, the MPC flipnose is too narrow and the "new tool" AMT 57 is to wide. I'm happy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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