Harry P. Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 OK... I don't build military or armor stuff, but I do know that most military/armor kits (land-based vehicles) are made in 1/35 scale. How in the world did such an oddball scale become the "standard" for military/armor kits? Why not 1/32, a common scale for model cars? Why not 1/24 or 1/25? Why 1/35? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkill2525 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Thank Tamiya, it was a scale that they could get a motor and batteries in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I think it was a space issue. 1/25 had already established itself as a size people liked. They are the right size for displaying on a shelf and not too small the average builder would have problems building. However, a 1/25 scale tank would be very large. So they lowered the scale until they got an end result was about the same size as a 1/25 scale car. This seems to make sense to me, but it's entirely possible that I'm completely full of ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyBad Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I think it was a space issue. 1/25 had already established itself as a size people liked. They are the right size for displaying on a shelf and not too small the average builder would have problems building. However, a 1/25 scale tank would be very large. So they lowered the scale until they got an end result was about the same size as a 1/25 scale car. This seems to make sense to me, but it's entirely possible that I'm completely full of ......... That does seem Very Plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Rob pretty much has it right. Look and you will find that 1/24-1/25 cars, 1/32 tanks, and 1/48 aircraft are appx. the same sixe on the shelf, as well as 1/720-1/1000 ships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadkill2525 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 From Wikipedia The early Military Miniature Series differed from the western standard scales of the time and used 1/35 scale. The models included the option for the inclusion of batteries and a gear box for motorization. These models were easy to assemble, the completed models looked good, and the parts were accurate. These qualities gave the series a good reputation ever since it was released. However, the option for motorization meant that the models needed to be inaccurate in some respects in order to work as motorized kits. More scale-accurate products which did not allow for motorization were renewed after the Tiger I's later model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moparmagiclives Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I say the same thing everytime I open the hood of something imported...."Why 9mm and 11mm...just use a 10mm like everyone else"....sorry had to vent a little.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Why is 1/43 the standard for smaller cars, when 1/48 was the long-established scale for aircraft (later AFV/military) since the 50s when Aurora did their first wildly popular plane kits in that scale? It became an industry standard long before 1/43 scale model cars got popular. Much less "how the heck did both 1/24 and 1/25 scales happen?" which is even more daft. 1/43rd is European O gauge for model railroading. Dinky Toys were accessories for Hornby trains and people liked them so much they started to buy them for their own sake. Then Corgi, and dozens of other companies piled on and produced more in the same scale. The first 1/43rd kits were meant as gap fillers for the diecast 1/43rds and then that got out of control and you went from John Day kits to resin and before you knew it you had 200 and 300 parts kits with photo-etch, machined and electro-formed parts. That is the path (in a nutshell, obviously) from train accessories to Bosica and Superior kits!! 1/24th is the sensible scale which is merely 1/2 inch to a foot. 1/25th came about because the first Promo makers got drawings from the automakers in 1/10 scale and pantographed down 2 1/2 times thus 1/25. Every scale has a story it seems. Some are just because it fit the box which was already in stock, others are way more complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 1/43rd is European O gauge for model railroading. Dinky Toys were accessories for Hornby trains and people liked them so much they started to buy them for their own sake. Then Corgi, and dozens of other companies piled on and produced more in the same scale. The first 1/43rd kits were meant as gap fillers for the diecast 1/43rds and then that got out of control and you went from John Day kits to resin and before you knew it you had 200 and 300 parts kits with photo-etch, machined and electro-formed parts. That is the path (in a nutshell, obviously) from train accessories to Bosica and Superior kits!! 1/24th is the sensible scale which is merely 1/2 inch to a foot. 1/25th came about because the first Promo makers got drawings from the automakers in 1/10 scale and pantographed down 2 1/2 times thus 1/25. Every scale has a story it seems. Some are just because it fit the box which was already in stock, others are way more complicated. Wel, you've explained every scale except the one I asked about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMc Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Heard it was due to the Metrics and math involved....that confused me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperStockAndy Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Perhaps............. maybe it saves a little styrene? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Wel, you've explained every scale except the one I asked about! But the post before mine did ask about 1/43rd! It isn't all about you, Harry!! I don't build armor but I would guess that 1/35th was close to one of the __mm figure scales. It's also interesting that there are very few aircarft in 1/35. They went to 1/32. There are a lot of interesting car kits in 1/32nd, too. Renwal did a pretty nice line of car kits in 1/48 in the 60s. There were everything from Curved dash olds to a Corvair, Duesenberg, Indy cars, Corvettes, etc. They were pretty nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Perhaps............. maybe it saves a little styrene? Styrene is cheap. It was more likely to save money on mold-making. Cutting injection molding tooling is very expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 1/35 goes back, I believe, to the Britains Miniatures cast lead toy soldiers which began being produced back about the time of WW-I in the UK. Britains figures are loosely 54mm in height. In the late 1950's, several small producers began making much more highly detailed cast white metal figures in this 54mm size, and those became very popular among military miniature enthusiasts by the mid-1960's. Even Monogram Models got into it briefly, with Monogram Merite' historic military figure kits in white metal. It was Tamiya who pretty much standardized styrene armor and soft-skinned military vehicle kits, which they did in spades in the late 1960's; apparently keying them off the vast assortment of 54mm soldier figures that were highly sought after in Japan. Sometimes, just as with 1/43 scale, one hobby or line of toy products can tend to create its own market which others gravitate to. 1/72 scale aircraft had their beginnings during WW-II, when aircraft recognition models were used by nearly all combantants to train their pilots and AAA gun crews how to quickly ID Friend or Foe. Those also introduced injection molding into the realm of models and toys, BTW. 1/72 scale worked simply because it's possible to make just about every aircraft ever built in that scale, and still keep the same scale, same size relationships, which also help in fast recognition and identification of an airplane in the sky. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62rebel Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 i'll even interject how ships in 1/16th increments came about... physics. water behaves in the same way for a full size vessel as it does for one one-sixteenth actual size, or in 32, 48, 72 (decreasing in scale too far renders the effect null.)..... and in the days of wooden ships, there were no "blueprints" per se... the naval architect had to work out his design in scale and carry the model to the shipyard for the builder to approve. saaaaay.... suppose i carry my customized '49 Ford model to a Ford dealer and say "Build me THIS..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 1/32nd armor and soft skins would have been a natural with the very popular 1/32 warbirds...fantastic dioramas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 i'll even interject how ships in 1/16th increments came about... physics. water behaves in the same way for a full size vessel as it does for one one-sixteenth actual size, or in 32, 48, 72 (decreasing in scale too far renders the effect null.)..... and in the days of wooden ships, there were no "blueprints" per se... the naval architect had to work out his design in scale and carry the model to the shipyard for the builder to approve. saaaaay.... suppose i carry my customized '49 Ford model to a Ford dealer and say "Build me THIS..." Uh, there were drawings made of proposed ships back in the days of wooden ships. For example, drawings do exist of the Mayflower, HMS Bounty, HMS Victory, USS Constitution and so on. Those early naval architects did draw them, they were called "loft drawings", which show the contours of the ships' hulls at each station (where the ribs of the ship form the hull shape), essential in order to show the builders what the external shape of the hull had to be. From those, half-hull models were built, again to show the required construction. Loft drawings were used all the way into the automobile age as well--they were very common before the idea of clay models being carved out to show the contours of bodies, fenders and such. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whale392 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 As a sidenote to the 1/72nd aircraft scale.........it was the size of the enemy aircraft in your maximum effective range of guns during WWII as well. Many fighter academies used 1/72nd scale models to acustom their pilots to the 'look' of an enemy fighter that could be shot at effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCat Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I believe that some (not all) of the military vehicles could be done as 1:24 or 1:25 scale... Here's my wish list of Military Vehicles that I would Love to see on 1:24/1:25 scale: World War 2 List Jeep - All versions M21 Half-track Vehicle M16 Half-track Vehicle 3/4-Ton 4x4 WC57/WC56 Citroen Traction 11CV Kubelwagen Type 82 Schwimmwagen ABM-41/42 Italian Armored Military Vehicle Leichter PzKpfw Mk I 202(e) Armored Car Panzerspahwagen BA64® Schutzenpanzer Half-Track Modern List HumVee - All versions Modern Mercedes Wolf Jeep Just to name a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagoneer81 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) I believe that some (not all) of the military vehicles could be done as 1:24 or 1:25 scale... Here's my wish list of Military Vehicles that I would Love to see on 1:24/1:25 scale: World War 2 List Jeep - All versions M21 Half-track Vehicle M16 Half-track Vehicle 3/4-Ton 4x4 WC57/WC56 Citroen Traction 11CV Kubelwagen Type 82 Schwimmwagen ABM-41/42 Italian Armored Military Vehicle Leichter PzKpfw Mk I 202(e) Armored Car Panzerspahwagen BA64® Schutzenpanzer Half-Track Modern List HumVee - All versions Modern Mercedes Wolf Jeep Just to name a few. You're in luck on a couple of these. Hasegawa makes a Willys MB Jeep, kit# MV1:2500 / 24501 AND a Pkw.K1 Kubelwagen, kit# MV3:2500 /24503 both in 1/24 scale. The MB comes with a nicely molded pedestal mounted M1919 .30cal Browning and the Type 82 comes with two M98k Mausers, two MG34's with drum mags, two MP40 sub machineguns and two Type 60 Panzershreks. They both include driver figures and for you Band of Brothers fans, the Jeep decals include markings for the 506th PIR, 101st Airborne Division, 1944. Also, if you want a Mid-1950's to early '70's military Jeep, a good place to start for a conversion would be the Dukes of Hazzard 'Daisy's Jeep'. It's a CJ-5 with the original 4-cylinder engine. The wheels and tires for it could be pirated from a Willys MB kit... I agree with your list, especially the half-tracks and would like to add; (Preferably in styrene) a Vietnam era M151 Ford MUTT and ANY make of a WWII/Korea era Deuce-and-a-half... Stude, Dodge, GMC, anything, just gimme a 2 1/2 ton truck! I found a GMC, in resin, from an overseas manufacturer but I'm not man enough pay the $250.00+ pricetag! Edited March 4, 2011 by Wagoneer81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I'd like a Auto Union DKW Munga and a Unimog 404. And the Steyr-Puch Haflinger and Pinzgauer. All these could be nicely civilized, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Sumner Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Tamiya produced it's first 1/35 kit in 1961...a German Panther tank. But I believe the 1/35 was used because 1/35 = 50mm. And of course they were using the metric system of weights and measures. And as a side note, the 54mm figures are not 1/35...they're 1/32 scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronw Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 It is weird, the military models mostly skip 1/24-1/25. There are several 1/16 scale kits, with at least a couple half tracks, and a T-34 tank. Tamiya did do a couple of 1/24 (or maybe 1/25) tanks, I think a Panther, Centurian, Sherman and Tiger. They are kind of hard to find and usually expensive, but I've thought they would make a neat flatbed truck load. There is a resin US WW2 2 1/2 ton truck from Wespe, it is nice but not cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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