how to turn 34 tow truck into dually rear tires

[bussshop]

I just got the 34 ford tow truck kit and want to do some mods to it but want to know if anybody can share info to make it a dually. thank you

[Ace-Garageguy]

You want to do wire wheels or steel-center wheels? Or aluminum wheels?

[bussshop]

the kit comes with the wire wheels but want to use steel wheels but would need to find a set....

[Jantrix]

The original AMT '34 came with steel dually wheels, just need to find someone willing to part with a set.

[bussshop]

its a bummer this one doesnt. would that be a post in the trade/wanted section? Im new to this forum, been looking at it for awhile but first post.

[Danno]

One thing to keep in mind is that the '34 Ford kit is a standard pickup, which was built on a conventional passenger car chassis. It was not available with or convertible to dual wheels. To correctly build a '34 with duallies, you would have to discard the chassis, running gear, and wheels/tires, start with a commercial truck chassis (Model BB) and its heavy suspension and differential.

By the way, the only difference between a 1-1/2 ton Model BB chassis and a 2-1/2 ton Model BB chassis is the wheel equipment. The 1.5 ton ran single rear wheels/tires and the 2.5 ton ran dual rear wheels/tires. Everything else was the same. None of the components of the chassis/suspension/wheel/tire/differential was the same as the passenger car line.

Just a little friendly FYI.

[Ace-Garageguy]

To be right, take Danno's advice.

As far as wheels go, you really don't need the kit-specific parts. If you have some deep steel rims that have the look you want, all you really have to do is use double tires, and glue everything together to look right from the angles you see the model from. If you want it to be correct from a function point of view, your best bet is to research dually wheels enough so that you understand why and how they're different from normal wheels, and all the possible variations, and make something up from normal kit parts that look correct.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Ace-Garageguy

[Longbox55]

One thing to keep in mind is that the '34 Ford kit is a standard pickup, which was built on a conventional passenger car chassis. It was not available with or convertible to dual wheels.

Actually, it could. You may not remember these, but JC Whitney used to have a single to dual wheel adapter that would allow for just such a dually conversion. It had a spacer that bolted to the outside or the original wheel using special longer lug nuts, making it the inner wheel, then you bolted up another wheel to the outside of the spacer. They even sold fender extensions to go with them. I don't think they are available anymore, but I have found patents for them at least back to 1924.

Now that I've said that, i agree with you 100% as far as doing an accurate stock dual wheel tow truck from the '34 Ford kit.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Longbox55's post reminded me of another dually conversion, but for the early Jeep CJs in the '50s. Same idea he's describing, but used to increase traction on rough terrain on the Jeep. An early CJ with the dually setup on all 4 corners is pretty strange looking.

[Danno]

Actually, it could. You may not remember these, but JC Whitney used to have a single to dual wheel adapter that would allow for just such a dually conversion. It had a spacer that bolted to the outside or the original wheel using special longer lug nuts, making it the inner wheel, then you bolted up another wheel to the outside of the spacer. They even sold fender extensions to go with them. I don't think they are available anymore, but I have found patents for them at least back to 1924.

Now that I've said that, i agree with you 100% as far as doing an accurate stock dual wheel tow truck from the '34 Ford kit.

True that.

I thought about the "model" thing of building a phantom custom, too, like the one pictured at the beginning of the thread.

But for the purposes of my comment, I stuck to the factory stock consideration rather than get into J.C. Whitney conversions, etc. They were out there, but you could not expect to operate a tow truck off an jerry-rigged dual wheel conversion of a passenger car frame and rear axle ... no matter how many extra wheels you spacered up.

Hmmm. I wonder how many extra wheels you could bolt on? Triples? Quads? I know a modeler that would build something like that ...

[Longbox55]

I've seen articulated tractors around here with triples on both axles, the outer wheels essentially just bolt on to an adapter like the JC Whitney one.

One thing I will mention, the patent I saw for the 1924 version of the dually adapter had it listed as a "traction improving device for passenger cars" rather than one for increasing load capacity. I have also seen the Jeeps similar to what Bill mentions. The ones I saw were a factory installed dual wheel option on CJ3 and CJ5 Jeeps, they also had a Spicer 70 axle in the rear in place of the Spicer 44 that was standard.

[Art Anderson]

Of course, it should be wise to remember that the Ford pickup kit in question here is a 1/2 ton unit, and using as small a pickup as one of those as a wrecker would have meant sending a small boy to do the job of a full-grown man. In point of fact, a 32-34 Ford pickup itself weighs barely more than 2,000 lbs dry, less than the weight of a Deuce or '33-'34 Ford Model 40 passenger car.

Nearly all pics I have seen of early 30's tow trucks are of rigs built either on 1.5 ton chassis, or even modified large luxury cars for that very reason.

Art

[greymack]

Hello there fellow modeler if your wanting to build a heavy duty wrecker then I can help you out. Do you want to make this wrecker a 2.5 ton truck?

[bussshop]

That was my original plan to make it be able to tow more than just a lawn mower.

[Art Anderson]

That was my original plan to make it be able to tow more than just a lawn mower.

Derek,

Here is a planview image of the 1932-37 Ford BB truck chassis, which will show you the massive difference between the pickup chassis, and the much larger, and heavier 1.5 ton BB frame:

BTW, I can send you a link to the original file I have on Fotki, it's large, the size of a magazine page, just don't want to eat up too much of MCM's bandwidth here--just PM me!

In this, you can see the layout of the frame itself (BTW, Ford never cataloged the BB in any capacity other than 1.5 tons--any heavier unit was achieved by the addition of aftermarket parts), and the 1.5 ton BB was more than adequate for a tow truck. From Ford, the BB truck came in two standard wheelbases, 131" wheelbase, and 151" wheelbase--a tow truck would have been mounted on the shorter of these two, with the rear frame rails cut off to allow for a shorter tow truck body. The cab, running boards (shortened to just a length extending to the back of the cab), front fenders, hood and radiator shell are all exactly the same as the pickup, as is the engine. The transmission used would have been the 4-speed unit, which in external appearance is exactly the same as the Model AA transmission, and even that is not markedly different from the 3 speed in external appearance. The forward part of the frame, from the main crossmember (that being formed by the main engine mounts at the sides of the flywheel housing of the engine) is essentially the same in appearance and depth as the '33-'4 Ford passenger car/pickup frame, from my research. For all intents and purposes in a model, the front axle, spring and radius rods are extremely close to that of the pickup as well.

The wheels are very much the same as the Model AA trucks, as are the tires, and are available from Ma's Resin.

For the look of the frame rails from the side, go to Spotlight Hobbies Message Board, search Evan Hermel, as he showed a drawing of the AA truck chassis in an issue of SAE about 1993 or 1994 or so, chances are he still has that set of drawings. The BB frame rails, from the side, look exactly the same as the AA, except that in real life they are 1" (.040") deeper in their center section, and of course, the AA frame rails were straight rather than "bent" to parallel as seen on the planview of the BB chassis shown above (the AA chassis was tapered wider from the front cross member to the rear of the rails, the rails straight, not bent to parallel aft of the engine flywheel housing.

The most difficult thing here would be the full-floating Ford truck rear axle. I machined a resin master for that back in 1997, when I mastered the All American Models '37 and '35 Ford 1.5 ton truck conversion, but that axle is exactly the same for all Ford 1.5 ton and 2 ton truck chassis 1929-52 (the Yatming '38 Ford fire truck diecast model has a near perfect rendition of this rear axle).

I'll do some more digging for my book on Ford Commercial chassis 1932-37, as it has an excellent 3/4 view of the BB chassis. The other scratchbuilt part of this chassis would be the rear semi-elliptic leaf springs. I've made those several times over the years, and have an online tutorial in my Fotki Albums, which can show you how I built those.

Hopefully, this inspires you to go forward!

Art

Edited December 20, 2012 by Art Anderson