Hobby Shops... Are They Viable Today?

[Danno]

The best way to make a small fortune in the brick-and-mortar hobby store biz, is to start out with a large fortune.

[jrherald420]

lol

[Greg Cullinan]

I went today to lhs. Ive known about this one for 30 years. I asked how long they've been in business. 60 years.

I purchased Badman,Police interceptor, model master ford & Chevy engine paint and a cool fluorescent testors that is new to me. $63. But I was able to walk around for a hour(killing time while at work) and scope out O scale trains which I think I am interested in.

Btw if anyone is in Philadelphia area,Roosevelt Boulevard and Grant Avenue, check out Allied Hobbies.

[uncle potts]

Our Lhs here caters to trains, military, and static models They have stayed away from the r/c products, and are doing quite well. I like my LHS, its a place where guys who build a wide genre of models can get togeather swap stories and talk models. Some are into cars\trucks like I am, soma e are into military, some trains And I've personally learned something from all of them. The one thing that worries me is that this is a father son operation. The father is 80 and the son is in his late 40's. He's also single, so has no kids of his own. Someday I expect that the dad will retire completely, and what happens when the son decides to retire? Hobby Lobby and Michaels, the only other two options we have here, just won't cut it. yeh I can shop online, its just not the same.

[lordairgtar]

Sometimes the brick and mortar can augment the internet and vice a versa. I went to a newer LHS in Oak Creek near Milwaukee to check it out. Basically an armor, military, aircraft store; they had a limited selection of kits for cars. They did have some 1/32nd scale Airfix kits that one does not see much of. I saw some 1/35th scale ICM kits of cars! I knew they also are marketing 1/24th scale autos from the WWII era. I took this opportunity to order an Opel Admiral kit in 1/24th as he did not have it in stock...so I let him do the ordering and also reaped the black Friday discount which got me this kit for $50. It normally is going at $59 or thereabouts. Yes, I could have gone on line and did it myself, but would not have seen this discount and still would have to come up with shipping costs. If a LHS does not offer to order things for you that do not stock, then those are the ones who will not do well. I know my tastes are obscure. I had one other place order my Trumpeter Hong Qi limousine Car Of State for me. They did. They would have never stocked this car because of the limited appeal.

[Harry P.]

I took this opportunity to order an Opel Admiral kit in 1/24th as he did not have it in stock...so I let him do the ordering and also reaped the black Friday discount which got me this kit for $50. It normally is going at $59 or thereabouts.

http://hobbyterra.com/product/admiral-cabriolet-german-passenger-car-icm-scale-24.html

[lordairgtar]

http://hobbyterra.com/product/admiral-cabriolet-german-passenger-car-icm-scale-24.html

But what is shipping cost. I couldn't determine that.

[niteowl7710]

But what is shipping cost. I couldn't determine that.

Looks like it's based on weight, and given that most model kits around a pound or so with the kit, packing materials and box it's $10.80 to ship it, and it'll take 1-3 weeks. So I guess technically you could have gotten the kit for $45.80, the trade off of saving $4.20 is not receiving your purchase for nearly a month.

In the broader discussion I dismiss this notion of a brick and mortar store being a waste of "gas" & "time" to shop there. I'm sure there are some diehard glueheads here who really do go out the day a kit drops specifically to purchase that kit, but I'd bet by-and-large the majority of modelers (to say nothing of the casual builder that really pays the bills) doesn't hit their LHS unless their in the neighborhood.

I was having the discussion recently with friends and the topic of a recently issued Revell kit came up, and that I know from the last time I was at the LHS getting supplies the kit on the shelf is nearly the same price it would be online, BUT I'd have to pay for shipping, which makes the cost higher. Then the gas & time factor was brought in, and I pointed out that I'm not going 11 miles to the LHS JUST for that kit, BUT I do have to get milk, butter, eggs, diapers, formula and juice. Low and behold there's a grocery store 2 blocks away that has a "make it & take it" salad bar I love, and has good donuts to boot. Am I REALLY wasting gas and time if I have to go out shopping in the first place? I hazard to guess most LHS shopping tends to happen under the same scenario...

[johnbuzzed]

In my opinion, brick and mortar hobby shops will always be around. Their survival depends on proprietor savvy and three important points:location, location, location.

I know of one hobby shop in my hometown on Long Island that has been in existence since... golly, probably the mid or late '60's, in three locations, through two owners (that I know of). It survived a fire and lack of utilities, and this is on Long Island, replete with exorbitant property taxes, ultra high utility bills and NYS taxes on top of that. Other hobby shops have come and gone on LI but, as of this past October, this shop is still there and it is busy. The place has all kinds of kits, die casts out the wazoo, trains, R/C stuff of all kinds, supplies, aftermarket stuff, magazines... they keep getting more inventory and it can be difficult to navigate the aisles but they keep selling. I will bring my sons and grandson there when we're on the Island for Christmas.

On line shopping is good sometimes, especially for more experienced modelers. You can take your time and check multiple sites for exactly what you seek. This is OK for that certain, special projects that are planned in advance. But for paints, glue, other general supplies and necessities, ordinary kits and such, I'll do the hobby shop every time. Their main disadvantage is that each one can't have EVERYTHING in stock, unlike your computer. Plus, as we get older, we become- well, lazier. Face it, it's easier to point-and-click than to actually locomote and exert one's self.

But I think there is something in our hunter-gatherer ancestry that drives the hobby shops (or, for that matter, any brick-and-mortar store). You need something. You leave your abode and look for whatever that might be. Then you find it, get it and return with it to your abode, to enjoy the fruits of your hunt, or what you have reaped via gathering. Plus, it is an opportunity to socialize, meet people face-to-face, ask questions and learn- to experience life and humanity in person, the way it has been for thousands of years. It's in our genes and instincts.

Edited December 19, 2013 by johnbuzzed

[Fabrux]

Most of the time when I visit my LHS it is a combination club meeting/LHS visit/company head office visit. Because I spend the day working out of my regional head office, my employer reimburses my travel expenses!

[ZTony8]

In my area of metro Detroit we have four viable hobby shops(not counting Hobby Lobby).On the other side of the metro area there three or four more shops.In fact,one of them is looking for a larger store because he wants to carry a bigger variety of inventory.

The internet stores are useful for buying things like photoetch,resin,and other things that the local stores can't or won't carry.

[cartpix]

I shop at both hobby shops & the www. I have a Michael's real close, so I can get glue & craft stuff. I have most of the kits, they carry, so I hardly buy kits there. I have a Hobby People, pretty close. They are well stocked, as models go, but they are lacking in the paint dept. & sheet plastic & the like. Further down the road is a Hobby Town. They have just about every color of Testors enamels & acrylics, plenty of Evergreen & lots of tools. I buy more from those 2 stores than I do from the Internet. I get the instant gratification, of a new kit. I open it, paw through it, & put it on the shelf, with the other 300+ kits. Ironic, when you think about it. LOL

Jeff

[lordairgtar]

In my area of metro Detroit we have four viable hobby shops(not counting Hobby Lobby).On the other side of the metro area there three or four more shops.In fact,one of them is looking for a larger store because he wants to carry a bigger variety of inventory.

The internet stores are useful for buying things like photoetch,resin,and other things that the local stores can't or won't carry.

I guess Milwaukee rules on that aspect too. In Model Empire, they have a bunch of photo-etch hanging on the wall...Model Car garage and detail Masters.

[kruleworld]

there are some that act you are bothering them when you walk in the door

That's one area that an online shop can't compete is on pre-sale service. most modelers are older guys who i'm sure prefer the human contact that a shop can offer, but most treat you like it's not worth their time to help, even if that's what they're paid to be there for.

[clovis]

Once in my life I was going to open a book store in the retail part of town, and get rich selling books...until I discovered that rents in high traffic areas is absolutely mind boggling.

One place looked at was $10,000 a month. Yes, $10,000 a month, and it wasn't even on the good side of the road.

I cannot even imagine opening up a LHS. It would be fun, but without a great customer base established, I think it would be tough going unless you had super cheap rent in a decent location.

[fantacmet]

We had one around here go under not due to poor management or anything, but the property owner and the other people around wanted them gone. They'd been there since the 1800's. It got turned into some foreign Wedding Dress shop, that in the last 5 years has been open a total of less then 5 days. It's also now a great meeting spot for all the little drug dealers and the like. Nope can have one of them darn fool hobby shops, the criminal element is much more attractive.

We have a train shop right up around the corner from me. A locally owned RC Hobby, where I get my RC Fix. Another LHS that sells online occasionally, but they do pretty much model kits and gaming. The old owners retired, the new one is a bit of a goofball, but he bought it specifically for the purpose of keeping it open and providing to the community, not to make a profit. What's what his other businesses are for.

Then we have a Hobby Town. the customer service isn't as good there as it is at the other two places, but they have a good selection of RC stuff and model stuff, including aftermarket for both. Or rather aftermarket for RC and model cars. No aftermarket for other Genres of plastic models. I personally shop at all three places.

[clovis]

I think...that if you wanted to be in the retail hobby shop, you might be able to make it if the rent was right or super cheap.

I believe that you'd have to have lines in a variety of things, whether it is trains, dollhouses, crafts, etc. You would have to carry deep stock too. Consumers can be fickle, and if you don't have gloss green Testors on the rack, they might leave and never come back, and then tell all of their friends that your shop "is a waste of time."

Carrying deep inventory is going to be expensive. My limited experience in the retail world tells me that that you can never second guess the buying public. You might think that everyone wants 1;24 cars, but 50% of your shoppers might be looking for 1:32 airplanes.

I've often wondered if you found a little, itty-bitty one horse small town, where the rent in the old downtown is cheap, rented a place and stocked it DEEP, and really put the word out, in an aggressive way, if a shop couldn't make it. Sure, you are going to have to be spectacular in business, personal, friendly, good prices, pro-active retail setting, free hobby classes, sponsoring clubs, etc., and sell on the net too.

I just wonder...as a theory, that if you spent all of your cash on stock for the store shelves, and sold it at a discount level, instead of spending $10,000 a month on rent in a top retail area, if customers wouldn't beat a path to your door in that small town where the rent is $1,000 a month or less.

I've seen a number of businesses thrive on this business model/theory in our area.

[johnbuzzed]

Well, my sons and I did go to the hobby shop (to which I referred in a previous post) on 12/29, the day before we flew back to SC. It was a VERY rainy Sunday with a lot of football games on TV. We were there perhaps 30-45 minutes before I could make up my mind (box size being the deciding factor, due to suitcase restrictions). The place was still full of stuff that could make your eyes water, as it always had been. If I ever hit Lotto, I would drive there in a small U-haul. And while we were there, at least ten other people came in and most bought stuff- even a big R/C truck. We dropped a C-note ( I think I got a LIARS club discount) on three kits and left with more pleasant holiday memories for the future. BTW, the name of the place is Bay Shore Hobbies.

Edited January 7, 2014 by johnbuzzed

[ratchetman87]

Hobby town usa was one of the best lhs ive ever stepped foot in and due to the internet they just couldnt compete. They were very good busy people, were always friendly and very informative. They had a huge variety of items from model cars to competition rc cars. They had something to offer every hobbyist that stepped into their store. I was pretty down about the closing because it was like being a kid in a candy store, now the lhs is about 25 miles away and the selection isnt as good, neither are the prices for that matter. So i would have to say that the internet is a detrimental factor to all hobby shops across the world.

[JordanFordF1]

My LHS owns the property/building it is in. Like rent/lease the better the location the higher the price so the above mentioned rent situation applies to buying property too.

One thing I noticed here is buying versus shopping. Those supporting the Internet side of the coin are buyers not shoppers. Those supporting LHS's are shoppers. The difference? When you walk into a hobby shop you browse. You walk around even if you've been in the place a thousand times before you shop to see what is new and you might have missed before. The internet guys/gals are going after something specific. Go back and read posts here and it is obvious. Look at it this way. We'll use Squadron as the example but really any internet company will do. How many have ever sat in front of their computer and visited every single page on their website and shopped every single item they offer? None. It's even hard to do. The site is set up more for specific product searches than it is for shopping. When you shop you find items you didn't know existed but want. A much harder thing to do via the internet. Still don't understand the difference between shopping and buying, ask a woman.

[Armornv]

I for one wish there was a LHS nearby to me. Somewhat small town-ish area. Just not a lot of commerce going on here. 30 ish miles away there lots of commerce, with a much higher sales tax, but only a Hobby Lobby. My reason for wanting a local brick and mortar, is the instant gratification... The idea of paying for a kit and getting to take it home and oogle it right away. That's just me though.

[Tom Geiger]

Many thanks to all who responded. I have left this thread alone, not responding, so that I didn't change the direction of the responses. It's all good input.

I am at a crossroads in my career. I'm looking for a new job for over a year, but it's real slow going for a professional over 55 these days. Of the positions I've interviewed for 25% of them were filled internally, 25% filled externally, but with someone junior to me, and a staggering 50% were never filled, and cancelled. In my support groups I know many very talented and accomplished professionals who have been out of work a year to two years. So I've been exploring options with my career councilor and senior leaders group. My previous boss lost his job before me, and has bought a restaurant franchise. The last time I saw him, sitting in his restaurant, he looked at me with a twinkle in his eye and said maybe I needed to buy my next job like he did. That got me thinking.

I do have the resources IF I want to gamble my family future. Friends and family have said that I have good business sense and if anyone could make it work, it would be me. In my career group, the first thing that jumps out in this exercise, is your personal interests and past experiences. I have access to some great business professionals in my group, so I'm putting together costs and a business model. And we're exploring some other businesses as well. So I'm not saying I'm going to take this plunge, but it's a consideration.

My own feeling is that most hobby shops suffer from the shortcomings of their owners. Most barely cover the very basics of most hobbies that a beginner may need, trying to be all things, without the deeper knowledge of any. For instance I know of a shop that is owned by an IPMS military enthusiast. He has everything, including aftermarket in that area, but when you tell him you're into cars, he treats you like an alien, even as he's selling you things. I can see similar themes in other shops, where RC is king in one, railroad in another, and I even know of a store where model cars are the owner's preference and he has no RC at all. They don't seem to be interested in learning other hobbies well enough to serve them. And that is their shortcoming. Narrow focus. And often lack of customer service unless you are in their pet hobby.

In my mind, a hobby shop that catered to the serious hobbyists in a number of hobbies. As our group ages, the model companies are aiming new product at our age group since we are retiring every day and have both time and money to pursue hobby activities. A shop that would provide extreme customer service, and will go find product for customers. One with a coffee machine and a table for people to meet and congregate. I know I used to go to a local shop on Saturday just to see what was up and who was coming in. And I never left there without dropping $50. There would be regular seminars on a variety of topics, an offer to hold club meetings, or sponsor the start of clubs, and an eye on youth and involvement in the local scouts and schools. Maybe even kids parties related to doll house and model car make and takes. And in my mind where there is a true and just world, I believe if you did all the right things, you could be successful.

So I'm investigating a few things, both going franchise and independent. My financial gurus have more of the independent idea, starting with a single store with a very professional package that could eventually spawn additional stores or even franchises. My issue is that these are senior guys from business who are used to dealing in the millions. The cost model is showing the daily profit requirements, and that alone is staggering. If you didn't have to pay for rent and employees you'd be golden!

Keep the ideas coming... franchise vs independent would be a good follow up. My initial idea was to buy a Hobbytown USA franchise, but I see people here who would shy away from going there, seeing it as not a serious hobby shop. The franchise branding, initial set up of a store and computer systems etc is attractive, but is being a franchise a detriment?

I'll let you know how this transpires...

Edited January 9, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[lordairgtar]

I truly hope this passes the test for you, Tom. I wish you all the luck in it. You seem to be on the ball business wise and you seem to have put together a support team that has expertise . I would say move to my area, but we have several good LHSs already. LOL. Is there a desire in the customer base in your area for such a hobby shop? Or would you have to relocate to a more lucrative spot? I'm looking forward to your further adventures.

[Tom Geiger]

Is there a desire in the customer base in your area for such a hobby shop? Or would you have to relocate to a more lucrative spot?

Gregg, that's the good part. There is really nothing all encompassing within a 20 minute ride. We have a Hobbytown USA about 20 minutes away, but the store is more of a toy store than a hobby shop. The couple who run it don't seem to be involved in hobbies. There is a train shop not too far away, but strictly trains, not even scenery or a paint rack. When I went in there once (and only once) the owner jumped from behind the counter to head me off and gave me an inquisition as to what I was looking for. He didn't seem to want me roaming around, so I left.

This is a pretty affluent suburban area with an average family income of over $100,000, and 75% owner occupied homes. Population within 5 miles is 88,000 people, mostly families. So this looks like good numbers. There is a high end toy store in an area shopping center about the size of the store I'd like to open that has been there at least 5 years. They specialize in hard to get Lego and other niche toys and there would be zero overlap. I spoke to the owner at length and he was happy to share his info,

So we'll see if I want to take this gamble. My wife isn't a gambler at all. And to add to this all, yesterday a VP I worked for on my job two jobs ago has retired and is working for a large consulting company. He called me about a one year assignment, so I'm seeing where that goes!

Edited January 10, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[clovis]

Tom,

I think you are on the right track.

Customer service is everything. The nearest HTUSA...they have a guy working there that is simply, umm...a jerk. When he found out that I wasn't going to buy, or even look at a RC model on my first visit to the store, he turned to being a total jerk. We even had words on a subsequent visit, and I walked out leaving $21 worth of Testors on the counter. I have no idea what this dudes deal is, and why he would treat any customer this way, ever.

Out of desperation, and not knowing that HL carried paints and supplies, I went back to HTUSA. They had the nicest, most helpful college kid working there, who patiently answered every question I had, and went to great lengths to be of assistance.

Since I am rambling, there used to be a LHS in the big city. I was in that shop maybe 40 times in my life, and the feeling I always got was: If you look like you have money, drove up in a super nice car, or your dad was a big shot, the welcoming into the store was quite unbelievable, and the service and friendly attitude would make Ward Cleaver, himself, gag at the situation.

But, if you were an out of towner, or maybe didn't wear the nicest of clothes, or pulled up in a lesser car, they treated you like you were the plague, and an extreme bother to their operation, even though the place was dead most of the time. In all my life, I'm not sure that I ever saw more than 6 people in the store at one time. The owner was arrogant, and truthfully, I always got the feeling that he ONLY wanted to sell to the rich, and didn't want anyone else in the store, unless you could prove that you belonged to a country club and owned a vacation home.

I have no idea why anyone in business would treat customers as poorly as those two places did. I really don't.

I have a very tiny retail business, and I make it a practice to treat everyone the same. I don't care if you are black, white, Republican, gay, Jewish, fat, skinny, old, young, smart, stupid, well dressed, rich, poor, or have purple hair. I don't give a hoot who your daddy is, what kind of car you drive, where you live, whether it is a mansion or a van down by the river, where you went to school, who your married to, what education you have, whether it is a PHD or if you are a 6th grade drop out.

I've found that being nice, polite, and sincere is the only way to go, and I also try to be an encouragement to others without any put downs or snide remarks, ever.

I've seen it time and time again in successful businesses...treat everyone like they are your best customer ever, and it will pay off in spades. if you are truly sincere in your helpfulness, encouragement and service to others, your shop will be standing room only.