Revell Sox & Martin Pro Stock Cuda

[kitswapper]

Well I picked up the new Sox & Martin cuds today at my LHS and they still didn't fix the rear wheel well flares on the body, Come on guys !!!, the kit has all the parts for the stock version except the stock tires and stock decals,. The drag parts are nice, the carbs for the tunnel ram are a little flat, the decals give you a complete side red decal for the paint, the slicks to me are undersized, they left off any keystone mag wheels detail on the rims caps, Side windows would have been nice since no pro stock is allowed to run without them.But Revell fix the rear wheel flares issue, at the prices we are paying for these kits now we shouldn't have these glaring errors,just saying. Anyway I still think in some regards the Johan Sox & Martin Pro Stock Cuda kit is better detailed in some areas and it's 44 years old. I'm not saying the Revell kit is bad at all, they just did what was economical to get a pro stock kit out of their new tooling with just a few drag parts and decals added.

Edited June 21, 2014 by kitswapper

[High octane]

Jim, you seem to have a lot of complaints with that kit that you just bought. If I were you, I'd take it back.

[Brett Barrow]

Looked though one today myself. Nice to see there's a coil and cool can that mount on the passenger side inner fender, we've been wondering what was going in those unused holes since the stock kit came out. They're not shown on the box model, but they're in there. I don't think all the stock parts are in there as I don't recall seeing another hood but the pro stock. To say it's a stock car with a few drag parts is a bit unfair as 1970 Pro Stock was just an offshoot of Super Stock and the cars were still fairly stock.

[slusher]

Anyone got any pictures? I preordered this kit and to me no kit is perfect. I am looking forward to building it...

[mike 51]

Jim, you seem to have a lot of complaints with that kit that you just bought. If I were you, I'd take it back.

I agree.

Edited June 22, 2014 by mike 51

[Daddyfink]

I just bought one and it looks fine to me. I am just going to build it and add what it needs and be done with it. As a model builder, this is no big deal.

[freakshow12]

Yeah, all this complaining lately... It honestly took me 20 mins to fix the wheel arches on my cuda build. I remember when kits WERE terrible. Collect die cast models if you don't want to do a little work to make a kit your own

[Dave]

I just bought one and it looks fine to me. I am just going to build it and add what it needs and be done with it. As a model builder, this is no big deal.

Yep

Yeah, all this complaining lately... It honestly took me 20 mins to fix the wheel arches on my cuda build. I remember when kits WERE terrible. Collect die cast models if you don't want to do a little work to make a kit your own

Well said.

[Modelmartin]

the Johan Sox & Martin Pro Stock Cuda kit is better detailed in some areas and it's 44 years old.

The Jo-han had a beautiful engine and some nice rolling stock but it had some major issues. The body was OK but had problems. The engine bay was ..........missing? There are no motor mounts, no detail on firewall and fender wells. To build one of the Sox & Martin Cudas really well one would need to kit bash from several sources. The best bodies were the MPC annual and the AMT snap kit. Jo-han has the best engine, wheels and tires, and Slixx had the most accurate decals( still had some inaccuracies, though).

[W-409]

I agree what Martin said above. I'm happy with the Jo-Han kit overall, but yeah, especially the engine bay and front suspension is quite poor. Interior isn't too detailed either, but it can be built into a decent looking unit anyway. The biggest problem with Jo-Han's body are the taillights. They look like they are too deep inside the body and maybe they're a bit small, too? But the engine in that particular kit is excellent, despite the axle hole on the engine block. However it can be built into a very nice model, especially if someone who has more talent than I do builds that kit. Here is a link to my buildup of the Jo-Han kit: http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=81219

Maybe a bit offtopic, but that being said I believe the Revell kit is an excellent one, as usual. Those little problems with the fender flares etc should be an easy fix. Okay okay, I don't have any personal experience with these new Revell Barracudas, but I've seen many of these built and a friend of mine has that Stock version and he says it should be easy to fix the little imperfections. I can't wait to get this kit to my hands... I'll have to wait so long that these arrive in Finland, though!

I'd like to see some pics of the parts, too.

[freakshow12]

The engine bay in the Jo Han kit is actually more accurate than you think. The real cars got a custom engine bay treatment that was very smooth. So did the Motown middle challenger and there could be others. I used the chassis and engine bay from the amt Yankee challenge challenger kit on my Jo Han cuda then realized the engine bay is not actually accurate so then I started smoothing it out. I got the whole model mocked up then it stalled. I will dig it out for pics

[W-409]

Well that's interesting information, Thanks Fred!

I didn't find many pics of those old Pro Stockers. Restored car pics were easy to find, but they can be different from original Race Cars... That's a good information for sure... Thanks!

BTW: This kit would be a perfect starting point to replicate this legendary Finnish Modified Stock (MS) Drag Car that was driven by Per Allan Skinnars. I believe he still has the car, last time I saw it on track was 2009. This picture is from the late '80 or early '90s.

And the same car in 2000:

[Brett Barrow]

The engine bay in the Jo Han kit is actually more accurate than you think. The real cars got a custom engine bay treatment that was very smooth. So did the Motown middle challenger and there could be others. I used the chassis and engine bay from the amt Yankee challenge challenger kit on my Jo Han cuda then realized the engine bay is not actually accurate so then I started smoothing it out. I got the whole model mocked up then it stalled. I will dig it out for pics

Johan's kit was a 71. Do you have photos of the 70 S&M Cuda engine bay? I've seen pictures of the 71 that have flat fabricated inner fenders, but all I've been able to find of the 70 show production inner fenders. Here's a Tim Boyd post from the SA forum, maybe he'll be along to shed some light on the subject.

The Sox and Martin version was part of the original Revell '70 'cuda project. All the licensing, etc., would most likely have been sewn up before cutting any steel for the tool.

When I was putting together the info to try to convince Revell to do this tool, I was surprised to learn that the '70 Sox and Martin 'cuda was much closer to a factory stock 'cuda than the '71 S&M 'cuda. This made doing a second kit version that was totally authentic, a much easier effort than if they were doing the '71 version. There was a detailed article (5 page color spread) on the '70 S&M 'cuda in a 2009 issue of Popular Hot Rodding that proved this point in detail. Others advocating this kit tool apparently also used this situation as justification in their correspondence with Revell....

The main thing I noticed wrong on the Revell kit is the battery is still shown in the stock location under the hood. And I'm not sure that the S&M car had a power brake booster (and I don't remember if the Revell kit only has the power booster. I only glanced at the kit, I didn't buy it because I don't like to take the RPP shipment away from paying customers at our shop, I wait until the regular shipment comes in) . But I think all the meat is there to make this kit spot on with a little omission or modification of parts. It's certainly much better than the Hemi Dart of a few years back. It might be one the best street-to-race conversion Revell has done, probably on par with the Fireball Roberts 57 Ford.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Brett Barrow

[afxmustang]

Let the nit picking begin.

[Sport Suburban]

I read that the 70 Cuda that they raced was closer to stock and was not as competitive. The 71 car was an all new car with many mods that they got away with. First thing that comes to mind is the wheelbase on the 71 car was altered. It measured out to spec but both the rear suspension and front suspension were moved foward the same amount. That was one of the reasons the 71 car has sheet metal inner fenders.

[cruz]

Inaccuracies or not, I am still building another one to display it next to my recently completed one!

[edward smith]

That's the spirit Cruz and I am sure it will be another home run.

[Daddyfink]

Don't forget that '70 was the first year for Pro Stock and most cars where running mostly stock components in the suspension systems, it was later, especially after Jenkins tube Vega, that things started getting crazy.

[freakshow12]

The 71 has 70 fenders though. No gills in them. I was under the impression the 71 car was the 70 car with a grille change. Many teams did that stuff to make the car look like the new model yr car without the hassle of shaking the bugs out of a new race car every yr.

[tim boyd]

Johan's kit was a 71. Do you have photos of the 70 S&M Cuda engine bay? I've seen pictures of the 71 that have flat fabricated inner fenders, but all I've been able to find of the 70 show production inner fenders. Here's a Tim Boyd post from the SA forum, maybe he'll be along to shed some light on the subject.

The main thing I noticed wrong on the Revell kit is the battery is still shown in the stock location under the hood. And I'm not sure that the S&M car had a power brake booster (and I don't remember if the Revell kit only has the power booster. I only glanced at the kit, I didn't buy it because I don't like to take the RPP shipment away from paying customers at our shop, I wait until the regular shipment comes in) . But I think all the meat is there to make this kit spot on with a little omission or modification of parts. It's certainly much better than the Hemi Dart of a few years back. It might be one the best street-to-race conversion Revell has done, probably on par with the Fireball Roberts 57 Ford.

Thanks Brett for posting this.

I got the 'cuda kit Saturday from The Model Cave in Ypsi,Michigan. Based on a quick once-over, it appears to completely and fully duplicate the '70 Sox And Martin 'cuda in the form it was shown in that 2009 issue of Popular Hot Rodding.

As several of you have mentioned, the 1/1 scale '70 S&M was MUCH closer to factory stock than the '71 S&M 'cuda, and that reflects in the differences between the Revell and the JoHan S&M kits. If you use the JoHan kit as the basis for deciding whether the Revell kit is accurate, you will come to the wrong conclusion.

Finally, I noticed that the box art model is incomplete in the engine compartment. It's missing the ignition coil that sits on the passenger fenderwell (and yes, it uses that unexplained hole that was in the stock kit version) and possibly other details. The coil IS in the kit contents. I was also surprised at the extent of the decal work. Looks like the only red you'll have to add to the car will be at the front and rear ends. Plus, as one of you noted above, looks like almost all the stock parts are in the kit as well.

I'll try to post pictures of the kit contents in the near future.

TIM

Edited June 23, 2014 by tim boyd

[caine440]

Not sure where someone would get the idea the 1970 car was not as competitive as it won just about everything in sight that year.

Here is a sight that should help with both history and photos.

Click on history in the right hand menu.

http://www.ronniesox.org/home.html

Edited June 23, 2014 by caine440

[OutaFocus]

Understand that I haven't actually seen the kit, just box art. I'm also basing my comments on what I read in this thread. There were actually two 70 P/S S&M Cuda's (as well as Dusters) One Cuda had chrome bumpers and the other had an Endura front bumper. I have a picture around here with S&M posing in front of two transporters loaded with both Cuda's and Dusters. I also have an S&M catalog which shows a background picture of a Body-in White 70 Cuda next to a brand new Hemi Cuda street car. They stated that it was easier to start with a stripped shell and transfer all of the required stock components to the shell than to strip a street car to build the race car. This is very common practice today, but fairly uncommon then, especially on what was primarily an SS car built for heads up competition.

No onto the kit based on what I know of it. The real cars (at least in legal NHRA P/S trim) used cross ram manifolds in 70. I read in the first post in this thread that the kit had a tunnel ram. Is that true? S&M may have used a TR later in the year or for match racing, but all of my references show a cross ram in 70. Second, the box art shows a hood scoop with an open front. The 70 car in all of my pics shows a standard Six Pack scoop. FYI the fiberglass parts for the S&M cars came from A&A Fiberglass here in Atlanta. I can confirm that the hoods that came from A&A had standard Six Pack scoops. again, for match racing anything goes, so the pictured scoop may have been used.

If the above inaccuracies are true, then the aftermarket needs to come to our aid with a correct intake and hood at least.

EDIT- I just Googled the Cuda and I see pictures of the car restored and it indeed looks like it had a TR and opeen front scoop. Revell must have looked at the restored car and included parts that weren't on the car in it's most raced configuration .

Edited June 23, 2014 by OutaFocus

[johnbuzzed]

Either way, with whatever problems the kit has, I might get two of these-one to build as a reasonably accurate replica and one to build as a killer street machine.

[OutaFocus]

The 71 has 70 fenders though. No gills in them. I was under the impression the 71 car was the 70 car with a grille change. Many teams did that stuff to make the car look like the new model yr car without the hassle of shaking the bugs out of a new race car every yr.

71 Barracudas (not Cudas) didn't have gills either, so the fenders would have been correct for a 71 also. It is possible that one of the 70's may have been converted though. Remember that S&M shop was basically a factory. You could actually order a P/S car out of the catalog, so building a new car or cars each year would have been a breeze. S&M supplied cars to Ronnie Lyles, Reid Whisnant (sp?), etc.

[OutaFocus]

Either way, with whatever problems the kit has, I might get two of these-one to build as a reasonably accurate replica and one to build as a killer street machine.

Oh yes, it's still very nice to have and I will buy several. I did not mean to put the kit down, hell, I haven't even seen one in the flesh yet. I was only commenting on what a saw of the box art and read. It's nice to have a kit of the subject at all.