Guest Johnny Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Any one with kids knows how hard it is to get a sholder belt placed properly on a kid. They are not a one size fits all, even in adults! Think of the varios size kids that ride a bus on any given day. Then the amount of time that it would take for someone to go through and make sure that every student had the belt on correctly. Then if you made the rule like for cars many would also have to be in a booster seat unril they met the height/weight requirement to wear the regular seat belt. Now I will say that the bus that picks up the preschoolers here DOES have belts and the aid straps each kid in as they get on the bus. But unlike the corner group pickups for the regular kids the preschoolers are picked up at their door. I know it sounds cold when the give the cost to death ratio, but they do have to draw a line somewhere. That or make everyone get their own child to school themselves and do away with buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 If little kids can ride around in buses without wearing a seat belt (and where are the bus air bags???), why not the rest of us? Seems very hypocritical that we have a "cost benefit analysis" that says it's "not worth it" to strap kids into a school bus for their own safety, but everyone who rides in a car has to wear a seatbelt by law. A little inconsistent, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Harry, I used to be one of the biggest anti-seatbelt law protesters there was. But after working as a paramedic and seeing that they DO in fact save more lives in CAR accidents I came around to it. (as in using them myself although we have always strapped our kids in) Went on several calls of school bus accidents and never say serious injury to a kid. The numbers justaren't there to support the push. While it seems hipocritical it really is not. Because if you use the same formula for cost to compliance in cars the numbers are astronomical in the oppisite direction! On a side note, personaly I do not like laws that remove ones right to choose like the seatbelt or helmet laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunajammer Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I wouldn't contest your thoughts Harry because I think at some level everyone feels like there's something wrong with the picture. But money just isn't available for everyone's avid cause. I guess it comes down to asking all taxpayers in the school districts, rich or poor, to fork it over if that's what important to them. I expect they might need to pay bus monitors to make sure squirrelly kids are minding the rules and not goofing with the buckles and/or systems. Which might happen anyway for security, the way things are going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 I used to be an anti-belt guy too. I figured nobody had the right to tell me to wear a seatbelt. And I never wore it. Then one day I was hit head on by a minivan (long story, but it was the other driver's fault, not mine). Anyway, the airbag probably saved me, because without it I would have gone through the windshield for sure, But from that day on I have never driven a car without putting on the belt first. I learned my lesson the hard way. I guess it seems odd to me that we have one set of rules for people in cars and a different set of rules for kids in buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Years ago, school buses were yellow all over. Over the past few years I've noticed that almost all of them now have their roofs painted white. Since this happened just within the last several years, I assume it's some sort of technology-related reason? Something to do with GPS, maybe? Anyone know? Not really. While school busses in the Midwest, certainly the Great Lakes region, used to be yellow all over, white roofed school busses have been around in the hotter parts of the US for decades--and for the very same reason that white roofs on 2-toned cars became popular--white reflects a lot of the sun's heat in the summer! Indiana school busses were Yukon Yellow from the the 1940's forward (the dark orange school bus used in the iconic film "Hoosiers" wasn't accurate from my memory, never saw an orange school bus as a kid!) all over. The white roof thing started here about 1980, but it isn't universal even today--Lafayette and West Lafayette school corporations don't have them, but Tippecanoe (county) School Corporation busses have white roofs. A lot of that stems, I think, from the old traditional school year for rural schools here, stemming from the era when rural schools here started their year in the 2nd week of August, and ended with the first weekend in May every year, so farm kids could help with corn planting, then go back to school after the summer grain harvest (winter and spring wheat, barley and oats), where we city kids got to be free until the week after Labor Day, and stayed in school until generally the first or second of June every spring. In addition, at least in Indiana until the late 1960's, most rural schools relied on farmers who contracted to operate school busses. In that earlier system, a farmer would buy the school bus chassis, have a body fitted to it, and ran his route every morning and afternoon during the school year, generally replacing the chassis about every 4-5 years, having the body transferred from one chassis to the next. But increasing concerns about safety and liability concerns lead the then-newly-formed school corporations (back 60 years ago, rural schools here were the property of the various townships in rural Indiana), the newly consolidated school districts opted to take over bus transportation themselves, the result being considerable uniformity. As for aerial surveillance, Indiana State Police no longer operates that sort of thing, due in part to variable weather for flying, and costs, so few, if any school busses here have any sort of numbering or logo's on their roofs. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 If little kids can ride around in buses without wearing a seat belt (and where are the bus air bags???), why not the rest of us? Seems very hypocritical that we have a "cost benefit analysis" that says it's "not worth it" to strap kids into a school bus for their own safety, but everyone who rides in a car has to wear a seatbelt by law. A little inconsistent, isn't it? Harry, actually the worst danger to kids re: school busses is not a wreck, but the stupid idiots who refuse to stop when a school bus stops to board or let off kids! The incidence of children being injured in school bus accidents, at least here, is actually quite low--the last serious crash here involving a school bus severely injured the granddaughter of a cousin of mine, when the school bus she was in was rear-ended by a truck driver not paying any attention to stopped traffic ahead. Rachel's injuries were severe, it took about 5 years and several surgeries to repair her lower legs which were badly injured. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydime Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 School buses have heat, I guess they don't have AC. Yeah, but the school bus driver always had his/her little clip on fan. Guess they figured the kids would just stick their heads out the little slide down window like a dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diymirage Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 they oughta just do away with school busses all together its the governments job to educate our kids, fair enough but i fail to see how its to goverments job to get our kids to said place of education think of all the money we could save by not having to run school busses think of all the time we could save by not getting stuck behind school busses think of all the bandwith we would save not having to argue to color of a school bus roof (3 pages and counting) sure, i understand not everyone can drop thier kids off at school but im sure most people could make it work...people in every other country do here's a thought, give them bicycles that aught to take care of our obesity problem and before you claim the infra structure isnt set up for that many bicycles, we have tons of money that we can spend on fixing that infra structure (we saved it on not hving to run schoolbusses) and all those out of work ex school bus drivers can pave these newly build sections of infrastructure...compared to a schoolbus full of nagging children a steamroller will be a breeze to drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemodeler Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 they oughta just do away with school busses all together its the governments job to educate our kids, fair enough but i fail to see how its to goverments job to get our kids to said place of education think of all the money we could save by not having to run school busses think of all the time we could save by not getting stuck behind school busses think of all the bandwith we would save not having to argue to color of a school bus roof (3 pages and counting) sure, i understand not everyone can drop thier kids off at school but im sure most people could make it work...people in every other country do here's a thought, give them bicycles that aught to take care of our obesity problem and before you claim the infra structure isnt set up for that many bicycles, we have tons of money that we can spend on fixing that infra structure (we saved it on not hving to run schoolbusses) and all those out of work ex school bus drivers can pave these newly build sections of infrastructure...compared to a schoolbus full of nagging children a steamroller will be a breeze to drive In the small town I used to live in Illinois, they didn't have money for school buses anymore so they did away with them. This was a town that was about six square miles and the only kids who didn't ride the bus had to live within 2-3 blocks of the school as the school system was overly concerned about safety. The funny thing is the buses were maybe half full because most parents still insisted on picking up their kids at school. In Illinois, the state law says that only those students who live at least 1 1/2 miles from school are eligible to ride the buses for free UNLESS there is a major highway or dangerous intersection that the kids must cross to get to school. In cities like Chicago, that probably means a lot of kids ride the bus despite living less than a mile from school. I think walking to school would be great for kids but because we have become such a lawsuit happy society, most schools tend to let kids ride the bus to keep from being sued. In my neighborhood, the middle school and high school are both about a mile away and kids here a more likely to ride the bus in the morning and walk home in the afternoon, especially if the weather is nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I think it's ironic that we expect kids to wear a helmet when they're on a bike, but we think it's fine that they ride in a school bus twice a day without wearing a seat belt. In one way we're so overly protective, yet in another way we seem to be ok with "taking chances." Not saying belts in buses is right or wrong... just kind of funny how we are so inconsistent. It's all in the numbers, Harry. As the article I quoted above mentioned, there are only a handful of kids killed annually inside school buses in traffic colllisions as compared to the thousands upon thousands of passenger car occupants killed annually ~ especially before seatbelt laws and the advent of airbag technology. Just think about commercial airliners ~ passengers are allowed to un-belt during flight and only REQUIRED to be belted during take-off and landing (and in areas of turbulence). Why? Because statistically few passengers are killed or injured mid-flight ... the real life-safety perils are during landing and take-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer1 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 "It's the governments job to educate our children" ????????? I'm going to read the Constitution again, I must have missed that part, but my parents taught me to read in spite of the public education system, or maybe my brain is just fried from 13 years of riding in a school bus with no A/C and a yellow roof. Back then the seats had exposed metal framework too, it's a wonder I'm even here to talk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordairgtar Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 First off Belts...not safe in a school bus because of the logistics of having to unfasten or cut loose jammed belts after a crash. I drove a 72 passenger 1973 International behemoth. You think it's gonna be quick unloosing all those belts after a crash and maybe the bus has caught fire? The seat backs are designed to keep riders protected.Trust me, they work. I got hit by a speeding motorist, all the students walked off unscathed. The same cannot be mentioned of the people who hit us. Plus all those belts would have to be bolted to an actual structural piece like the frame. You won't see belts in over the road buses like Greyhound, either. AC....School district owned buses maybe not, but here in the Milwaukee Metro area, all bus service providers are private companies that contract to the school districts. The private firms have AC in the buses because they rent them out for other non school events like pub crawls and trips to Lambeau Field and the UW and other university's sports events. They are a good alternative to the fancier coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 "It's the governments job to educate our children" ????????? I'm going to read the Constitution again, I must have missed that part, but my parents taught me to read in spite of the public education system, or maybe my brain is just fried from 13 years of riding in a school bus with no A/C and a yellow roof. Back then the seats had exposed metal framework too, it's a wonder I'm even here to talk about it. Now that was well said! And funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) I never had to ride in a school bus with no seat belts or AC. I rode in my Dad's car with no seat belts or AC. Or I rode my bike to school without a helmet (what was that?). Which may explain a few things. (Happy 98th birthday today to my dear, late Dad). Edited January 12, 2013 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diymirage Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 "It's the governments job to educate our children" ????????? I'm going to read the Constitution again, I must have missed that part, but my parents taught me to read in spite of the public education system, or maybe my brain is just fried from 13 years of riding in a school bus with no A/C and a yellow roof. Back then the seats had exposed metal framework too, it's a wonder I'm even here to talk about it. fair enough, but i just want to record to show that i do NOT have the knowledge nor the skills to teach a child everything he or she needs to know i applaud your parents for teaching you to read (and i do have every intend to help out my boy as he grows) but there is too much that a child needs to know that parents alone cant teach remember, it takes a village on a side note, i heard an interesting story the other day, i think it was about Benjamin Carson, the neuro surgeon when he was in school his mom made him turn in book reports to her, just to ensure he and his brother did thier school work it wasnt untill years later he found out his mom couldnt read but she sure understood how one grows out of poverty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 fair enough, but i just want to record to show that i do NOT have the knowledge nor the skills to teach a child everything he or she needs to know i applaud your parents for teaching you to read (and i do have every intend to help out my boy as he grows) but there is too much that a child needs to know that parents alone cant teach remember, it takes a village on a side note, i heard an interesting story the other day, i think it was about Benjamin Carson, the neuro surgeon when he was in school his mom made him turn in book reports to her, just to ensure he and his brother did thier school work it wasnt untill years later he found out his mom couldnt read but she sure understood how one grows out of poverty Hillary's infamous words. I doesn't take a village. Teachers only are supposed to teach fundamentals, not social doctrine, not their personal beliefs. Their job is not raising anyones kids. That is the parent's job, not societies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Hillary's infamous words. I doesn't take a village. Teachers only are supposed to teach fundamentals, not social doctrine, not their personal beliefs. Their job is not raising anyones kids. That is the parent's job, not societies! Every village has an idiot. And some of them are parents. A few statistics estimate that over 300,00 crack babies are born each year. If anyone needs a village, it's them. What about the homeless kids? The abused? The bullied? Yeah, let's just let them and their useless parents figure it out and forget about a safety net -- a village of those who will support them. I had to comment, but if there are members who want to turn a simple observation about school bus markings into a diatribe against government policy, practice and certain personalities, I'll pipe right in. Ridiculous. Edited January 12, 2013 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer1 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Hillary's infamous words. I doesn't take a village. Teachers only are supposed to teach fundamentals, not social doctrine, not their personal beliefs. Their job is not raising anyones kids. That is the parent's job, not societies! Exactly my point, with that said my children are in public school and almost every day we spend time deprogramming them from all the social engineering, propoganda, and re-written history. They seem to be getting the fundamentals ok, I just wish they could stick to that ! Sorry, just venting a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Irwin Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) The best thing anyone can do for their children today is keep them out of public schools. Schools should teach kids how to think, not what to think. Edited January 13, 2013 by Craig Irwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Careful, boys... you're getting very close to the kinds of comments that cause the mods to shut things down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Careful, boys... you're getting very close to the kinds of comments that cause the mods to shut things down. Sorry Harry, but I have to The wheels on the bus go round and round ,round and round, round and round, the wheels on the bus go round and round I know, I know, I am going to my room now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Had a few cocktails tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Had a few cocktails tonight? Not a one, this is how I am sober, I dont really drink, just trying to keep the mood lite in here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Not a one, this is how I am sober, I dont really drink, just trying to keep the mood lite in here Wow... if you're this much fun sober, imagine how you'd be after a few drinks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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