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Moebius Hudson & Chrysler 300


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Moebius would be crazy to botch their kits to Trumpeter levels of incompetence. I have good feelings about what they're doing, hopefully they follow through without cutting corners. So far so good, but we'll all have to wait until they're on the market.

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Has anybody heard any more news on the release of the Hudson Hornet or Chrysler 300 that was annouced last year? Will be waiting patientily for these.

I believe Art Anderson mentioned in a post on another board that he's seen the Hudson Hornet prototype model and he thought it looked great. Maybe if we're lucky we can get Dave Metzner to post some photos of it here like he did with the Lonestar the other day.

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Are these kits the first cars Moebius has ever done?

I looked at their website... seems like they basically re-issue old Aurora monster kits with a few odd sci-fi kits thrown in the mix.

So regarding Ken's post... how does their current lineup necessarily mean their car models will be top notch? I don't see much of a connection between what they currently offer, and any new car kits to come... but Ken seems to be pretty sure that top quality car kits from them are just about a sure thing.

Don't mean to we a wise guy, I'm seriously asking. I never heard of this company until I saw their display at last year's Hobby Expo, so I have no idea...

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I remember that, too, and I think that's one the major reasons the Trumpeter kits were so disappointing _ they came nowhere close to living up to the expectations that were created by the pics of the pattern models.

Add to that the fact that Trumpeter allegedly cut out the American kit designer after the patterns were done; I say "allegedly" but I'm pretty sure that is what happened, simply by looking at the end product. To me it would be insane to have the person who designed the kit in the first place not to be involved in the tooling & test shot phase. Somehow I have a lot more confidence that Moebius "gets it", and won't let that kind of thing happen. Nothing worse than bringing out subject matter aimed at serious adult builders that doesn't nearly live up to the hype, much less the expectations.

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Don't overlook one little point that speaks loudly (to me, at least).

Moebius has involved Art Anderson to at least some extent in vetting the Hudson ... so far. That indicates to me that they are interested in serious feedback before the project gets too far downstream. Art won't lead them astray or let them wander astray .... so long as they pay close attention to his observations/comments/advice.

There just aren't any more knowledgeable resources that know both vintage vehicles and the model production business inside & out, IMHO.

At least it seems to me that it is a very good sign.

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I agree. Art has a connection to Moebius, too. Both he and Dave Metzner, the man calling the shots at Moebius, used to work for Polar Lights.

Uh, didn't Polar Lights' car model kits have a less than stellar reputation?

I guess I don't see a Moebius connection with Polar Lights as necessarily being such a big selling point for Moebius...

Oh, well, it's all nothing but speculation at this point...

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Uh, didn't Polar Lights' car model kits have a less than stellar reputation?

I guess I don't see a Moebius connection with Polar Lights as necessarily being such a big selling point for Moebius...

Oh, well, it's all nothing but speculation at this point...

Uh, to set the record straight here Harry:

Moebius isn't Playing Mantis/Polar Lights, and Playing Mantis/Polar Lights, being gone from the scene, have no direct connections whatsoever to Moebius--it's somewhat coincidental that Dave Metzner worked at Playing Mantis, same as me, and now heads up product development for Moebius. My model building, fellow employee and now working relationship with Dave goes back about 25yrs before our co-experiences with Playing Mantis.

There are light years of difference in the approach taken by Moebius and that employed by Playing Mantis. At Moebius, model kits are pretty much their business, their only business; at Playing Mantis, through the brand Polar Lights, model kits were very much the stepchild, Johnny Lightning diecasts being their "signature" product line, and it showed. I'm not going to rehash all the things experienced at Playing Mantis, that isn't the thrust here, and I'm not really into any sort of "tell all".

All that said, the focus is quite different today, David has a great deal more to say about just what the Hudson and Chrysler kits need to be, rather than someone in an upstairs office, that is pretty clear to me. The three kits under development have FAR MORE in the way of upfront research done beforehand, given that this isn't some "nostalgia trip", nor is any "reverse engineering" of former kit offerings by others involved. The abiding principle with all three kits is accuracy, as much as can be achieved, and a price point that will allow that to happen. With the Hudson, for example, one of the best-known names in the model kit industry aided considerably with research and reference, supplemented by a lot of cooperation of the Hostetler Collection, which is the largest, most comprehensive museum devoted to the Hudson Automobile, and is conveniently located in far northern Indiana, only about 30 miles or so from where Dave lives. The Chrysler is a similar issue, lot's of help coming from a couple of owners and restorers who live in the same area as Dave. In addition, the lead time allowed is far more generous than with nearly any model kit produced by Polar Lights, as there really isn't any dependence on convincing WalMart or other Big Box stores to pick up the line--and having been on the inside track on stuff like that, it's a pleasant breath of fresh air.

I'm in possession of zip files of photo's of both sets of mockups, and both are already stunning, but as with any model kit project of this scope, of which little, if any factory information exists anymore (Hudson Motor Car Company merged into AMC just about 56 years ago, production moved to Kenosha WI, the old Detroit facility closed down completely. Chrysler doesn't have, apparently, anywhere near the the historical archives organized in the manner of say, GM or Ford--so factory help just isn't much--these are subjects that are having to be done from real cars, by photograph and measurement, in a very old-fashioned manner. That makes it even more critical (and both Dave and I know it!) to carefully scrutinize the mockups before they are sent from China, compare those pics with photo's of the real cars, get any corrections made that we can, before we take the step of reviewing them in person. I can say, at this point, that by and large, the shapes, dimensions and proportions appear to be right on the money--now the "Devil is in the details". But, we both know that it's the subtle stuff that can make or break any model car kit. Fortunately, the company in China who is doing the work is one well-known to both Dave and I--they did virtually all Johnny Lightning tooling (and most of JL production), and did the Polar Lights kits to the best of their abilities, given the unfortunate constraints thrust on them by PM upper management and sales department. But, they are just as committed as Dave is, that these be excellent product.

I'm just as interested in these two subjects as anyone else, my passion for accuracy is just as high also. I am also aware that across the industry, every manufacturer has at times gone with "Close is good enough for Gov't Work", but I don't see that as the case here.

So, be a little bit more patient, OK? On that other, non-magazine-supported forum, Dave posted a few pics of the International LoneStar--and it's a stunning project already, and those are first review pics sent from the mockup shop (of course, that one is done from CAD files provided by Navistar--no such reference info exists for the two cars from the 50's).

Art

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Success is determined as much by expectation as results but I will say this: I have about 2000 kits in my collection (hope the wife isn't reading this) and no Galaxie Chevies. But I will, even if it's deemed a terrible kit, have a Hudson because...well...if someone kits a Hudson in 2010, I have to have it and build it. If it's good I'll get more than one if there's a NASCAR version, or the aftermarket fills that void

.

The 300 is not the must-have the Hudson is for me, but if it's a decent kit I'll buy one AND build it. A second if the NASCAR stuff is a possibility. They have something the Galaxie Chevies don't have to my eye...they'll stand out on the shelf because they're unique cars.

I have to think I'm not entirely alone in this viewpoint.

Mark,

You will be interested then, for sure! Both cars will have NASCAR versions, the kits are being designed and mocked up with that in mind--and I don't mean just AMT Corporation-style tack-on roll bars, and a set of decals either--try gutted interiors and the like. Additionally, a release of the Hudson as the convertible is in the plan as well, in addition to the Hudson's being mocked up with parts to do both a 1952, AND a 1953. Both kits are being worked up as full detail--the dual-carb 354 Hemi in the Chrysler, the Hudson with its trademark 308cid inline flathead 6, with Twin H-power and 7X cylinder head, parts which do the Nascar racers happen. In addition, the Hudson is being done with a 3-speed transmission and shift lever, I suspect the Chrysler is as well.

Art

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Uh, to set the record straight here Harry:

Moebius isn't Playing Mantis/Polar Lights, and Playing Mantis/Polar Lights, being gone from the scene, have no direct connections whatsoever to Moebius--it's somewhat coincidental that Dave Metzner worked at Playing Mantis, same as me, and now heads up product development for Moebius.

Art

danno-"Moebius has involved Art Anderson to at least some extent in vetting the Hudson ... so far. That indicates to me that they are interested in serious feedback before the project gets too far downstream. Art won't lead them astray or let them wander astray .... so long as they pay close attention to his observations/comments/advice.

There just aren't any more knowledgeable resources that know both vintage vehicles and the model production business inside & out, IMHO.

At least it seems to me that it is a very good sign."

Khart–"I agree. Art has a connection to Moebius, too. Both he and Dave Metzner, the man calling the shots at Moebius, used to work for Polar Lights."

mark taylor–"Connections to Polar Lights when it comes to automotive subjects do not add up to the greatest past track record. I'm hopeful Mobius can make the kinds of worthwhile kits PL couldn't, but not blindly so."

Art... I'm just trying to make sense of the conversation here...

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I can't wait for wither of these but more so the 300 than the Hornet. I was just wondering what the status was and look at the replies and comments that have been made. Looks like I am not the only one waiting for these. Thanks for the responses guys.

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As a member of the Hudson-Essex-Terreplane Club, I will tell you without any reservation right now- there are about 6500 H-E-T members, and a very, very large number of those will buy at least one of those Hornets. Whether they actually build it or not is another matter, but the sales will occur.

I can honestly say that both of these kits, when marketed to people who are not only model car enthusiasts, but real car enthusiasts, will probably do very well. I've long argued that advertising in 1:1 magazines, like Hemmings Classic Car or Cars & Parts would really help drive sales. If the awareness is created, the sales just might occur. A gamble? Yes, but so isn't everything.

I, for one, am waiting for these eagerly.

And Dave, if you're reading this, and open to product ideas, how about a Terreplane pickup or a Studebaker Coupe Express- two of the prettiest trucks made, I think.

Charlie Larkin

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Regarding the Hudson ... while it is regarded as a "niche" subject _ and it is, no question about it _ I think people underestimate its mass appeal. There has been a better time, IMO, to produce a model kit of a Hudson because the movie "Cars" has given it recognizability beyond what it has ever had, probably even when it was new. Thanks to that film, even casual non-car enthusiasts and young kids know what a Hudson is and what one looks like.

Will that translate into sales of the Moebius Hudson kits to "casual" modelers? We shall see ...

That's a great point, Ken, but how many potential buyers who now recognize a Hudson bodystyle are going to plunk down $29.95 for a kit they have to assemble AND paint? Sadly, very few I bet.

At any rate, I'm not trying to rain on the parade here, but I see a lot of similarities to these kits and the Glaxie Limited '46-'48 Chevy kits, but that been discussed to death in another thread.

And Art, in case you haven't noticed, we like rumors, gossip, and hearsay, so bring it on! :D

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That's a great point, Ken, but how many potential buyers who now recognize a Hudson bodystyle are going to plunk down $29.95 for a kit they have to assemble AND paint? Sadly, very few I bet.

At any rate, I'm not trying to rain on the parade here, but I see a lot of similarities to these kits and the Glaxie Limited '46-'48 Chevy kits, but that been discussed to death in another thread.

And Art, in case you haven't noticed, we like rumors, gossip, and hearsay, so bring it on! :lol:

A

As with just about any other model car subject, to see who buys a particular new kit, and then to discover who DIDN't buy it, can often be very surprising!

Art

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I have more kits stacked up than I will ever open up, much less build. I really started slowing down on buying kits. In fact this year so far, I have purchased just one. Money is tight and I don't build like I used to. And the current MSRP's don't help either.

I am still going to buy a Hudson kit when they hit the shelves. It is a beaut of a car! A man in a nearby town has a '54 Hornet convert. Another guy in that same town has a Hudson as well, and tho he still drives it, it really could use a resto.

Factor in the stock car history of the marque, the fact that the car is a natural for customizing, plus the "Cars" movie awareness, and I feel it is a great choice. So even if the price is around the $30 range, I will buy it. That is the exception tho... I just cannot afford this hobby like I used to.

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My thought is how much off the 49 Merc kits will fit this..! '53 Buick trim anyone? What's a chopped Hudson look like? Will '56 Packard tails fit? Coon tails anyone? fuzzy dice?

Actually, the back of the Hudson is pretty much a 49-50 Merc, so the Packard tail lights may make it into the 300. :angry:

Edited by Foxer
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Bravo Moebius! I don't know about the Chrysler, but I think the Hudson will be a big success. It seems that everytime I read a "most wanted" magazine poll, the Hornet always does really well. My usual subject matter isn't even close to a Hornet, but I will buy at least one. The Hornet, in my eyes at least, is much more interesting than a Galaxie Chevy. For one, it has a race pedigree. It is also a unique part of American automobilia. No offense, the Galaxies are nice, but to me they are just another old car.

As for the PL kits, at least they tried. And they covered much wanted subject matter that was much cheaper than resin, and easier to work with! Last time I looked, they seem to fetch good prices on ebay. By the way, thank you for all the good info guys.

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My thought is how much off the 49 Merc kits will fit this..! '53 Buick trim anyone? What's a chopped Hudson look like? Will '56 Packard tails fit? Coon tails anyone? fuzzy dice?

Actually, the back of the Hudson is pretty much a 49-50 Merc, so the Packard tail lights may make it into the 300. :)

Of course, in a plastic model, chopping a Hudson wouldn't be all that hard, pretty much the same as with a 49-51 Merc, but in real life? Hmmmmm! Hudson's term for their unibody construction (starting in 1938) was to build a car like a truss bridge, virtually every body component is structural in some way. The rocker panels actually form the side rails of the underbody, the C-pillars are steel beams underneath, as are the A-posts. Around the roof, under the skin is literally a roll cage of fairly heavy steel shapes. Even the side members go OUTBOARD of the rear wheels, just above the opening for the fender skirts (Stepdown Hudsons look AWFUL without their skirts!) '56 Packard taillights could work, IF one used '54 Hudson rear quarter panels, with their flow-through styling though.

But, why chop one? As they came from the factory, the side windows are only about 10" tall or so, not much more than that, with a very high beltline. Lower one mebbe, the suspension is pretty conventional for the time frame.

Stepdown Hudsons were fairly heavy cars for their day, up around 5000lbs, due to all that steel structure. Where they shine is on the highway--in many ways a car built for Interstate Superhighways, before there were Interstate Superhighways. And that huge flathead 6? That engine was happy as a clam, purred like a pickleseeder all day long at 75-80mph, and got 20mpg in the bargain (still have my Dad's travel journal from a 3-week trip to AZ, he and mom carefully calculated gas mileage on that trip, in the days of 23-cent a gallon gasoline to boot. In a pinch, you could seat 4 fully grown adults across both the front and rear seats, or 5-6 kids. And, it did it all in relative quiet, only on hard acceleration could you hear the designed-in piston slap from the engine. But roll one over? Only dented the sheet metal, never saw one with a collapsed roof (they were hard bodies to crush too!).

Art

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That's interesting, Art. I'm a structural engineer, so I understand completely about the body.

And after looking at some better Hudson photo's than in my mind, I see a chop might not look that great anyway considering the rear of the roof. Ya gotta admit, though, there's a lot of '49 Mercury in that body design. :lol:

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Actually, Art, most Step-downs max out at about 4000 pounds, that's before people, gas, and whatever else goes in a car. But, yes, they are VERY heavy, and you feel it riding around in one. They're also very comfortable to ride in. I don't own a Step-down (wish I did,) but I think they're still one of the best cars ever produced in this country, as do many people.

The Monobilt body is very much as Art described. They're built much like a NASCAR race car is today, and the engineering on them is quite something. Every once in awhile, a Hudson does get into an accident. Usually, the "safer" modern car is reduced to a smoldering pile of rubble and its passengers are very badly injured- even Volvos and Saabs. The Hudson passengers usually walk away with little or no damage.

One of my friends has a largely original 1952 Wasp with pushing 260,000 miles on it. With proper care and maintenance (you need to see the lube chart to understand what I'm talking about,) Hudsons will run rings around almost anything built then...and a lot of what's built now.

I have seen a couple of chopped Hudsons. They really look silly unless you channel the body, which on a 1:1 would be near-impossible because of their construction. There are other ways to lightly customize a Hudson that still look good.

But how do you improve on perfection?

Charlie Larkin

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