For the 30's era kits. Questions

[debaronFR]

One other comment. The Mercedes 540 K by Heller is one I fought with many years ago. Here is is.

As you can see, this is a long way from the truly beautiful car that Mercedes built.

Eric

i have not so bad opinion of the Heller kit. Monogram have also defaults. But it's true Heller kits are hard to build.

[sjordan2]

The biggest issue with all these kits is making the wire wheels more acceptable, a common problem with any 1/24-25 kit, as well as some 1/16 models. In 1/16, I use needle files to thin out the outer wires only. In smaller scales, look for Herb Deeks wire wheels on eBay.

Edited June 4, 2013 by sjordan2

[Edsel-Dan]

Here is the other 32 Chrysler;

This one did not have the Motorcycle. I would like to find one of those!

I also have this kit issued as "Ma Barker's car from the Movie "Bloody Momma"

[Eshaver]

Shown here are both the Packard Speedster or Boat Tail and the Cord 812 . Both are Monogram kits . The Cord came out in the middle 1960's . This to me was more difficult than Monograms 1941 Lincoln MK I and less difficult than the Packard . The Packard was simply Cleared over as I was duplicating the car within the Harrah's automobile collection. The Cord was painted to match a former customer's Cord I once had the chance to have worked on back in the late 1980's .

[gtx6970]

Keep all the info coming. I am still picking up kits for the stash , as the toy fund allows .

Here is what I've managed to get so far.

[sjordan2]

Wow. Never seen that Hispano Suiza before -- must be very valuable.

[gtx6970]

Wow. Never seen that Hispano Suiza before -- must be very valuable.

Couldn't tell ya. I haven't paid over $25 for any one model shown I've purchased to date. most of them have been less than $20

[charlie8575]

I'm going to have to keep an eye open for that Hispano. Nice-looking car.

Charlie Larkin

[gtx6970]

I can open it up a take a bunch of pictures and post them in this section if anyone would like to see it . It's completely unbuilt and best I can tell, complete. But I'm afraid I can't say if it's 100% accurate or not .

the Alfa will be the 1st one started of this lot, and the H.S . K6 will probably be one of the last

Edited June 7, 2013 by gtx6970

[Terry Jessee]

I did a story for the Car Modeler annual in 2002 called "The Veteran Motorcar." It includes a pretty comprehensive listing of all of the 1/24 and 1/25 scale antique and classic car model kits, along with some interesting history and an interview with Ken Merker, the Monogram designer who did the original Duesenberg torpedo phaeton and the MB 540K cabriolet kits.

1928 Stutz Blackhawk (Etzel Speed Classics) and 1929 Irving-Napier "Golden Arrow" [scalekraft]. These are both resin kits, but are out of production.

1904 Darracq--first introduced by Airfix, and later by MPC. This is listed as 1/32 but is actually 1/25 scale. Simple but cute little kit.

And of course, Monogram's original Duesenberg.

Terry

[Art Anderson]

Last thing, and this is probably more than you ever wanted to know, here is the complete list (to the best of my knowledge) of all of the CCCA models ever made in 1/24 scale.

The 1/24 Scale CCCA Classic Models

Pyro/Lindberg (5)

1935 Auburn 851Speedster

1937 Cord 812 Phaeton

1948 Lincoln Continental Cabriolet

1929 Mercedes Benz SSK

1931 Bugatti Royale Victoria

Monogram (15)

1934 Duesenberg SJ Weyman Torpedo Pheaton

1934 Duesenberg SJ Murphy Town Car

1935 Duesenberg SJ Rollston Roadster

1931 Duesenberg SJ Murphy Speedster

1931 Rolls Royce Phantom II Roadster

1931 Rolls Royce Phantom II Phaeton

1937 Cord 812 Phaeton

1927 Bugatti Type 35B

1938 Mercedes 540K Cabriolet B

1938 Mercedes 540K Coupe

1930 Packard 734 Speedster Runabout

1930 Packard 734 Speedster Phaeton

1931 Packard 840 Custom 8 Phaeton

1932 Cadillac 452B V-16 Phaeton

1941 Lincoln Continental Cabriolet

Johan (5)

1931 Cadillac 452A V-16 Cabriolet

1931 Cadillac 452A V-16 Phaeton

1931 Cadillac 452A V-16 Town Car

1934 Mercedes Benz 500K Speziel Roadster

1934 Mercedes Benz 500K Coupe Limousine

MPC (4)

1928 Lincoln L 7-passenger Phaeton Locke

1928 Lincoln L Roadster

1932 Chrysler Imperial Convertible Sedan

1932 Chrysler Imperial Convertible Coupe

Heller (7)

1930 Alfa Romeo 8C Roadster

1929 Bentley 4 ½ Litre LeMans Racer

1935 Delage D8S Cabriolet by Chapron

1934 Hispano Suiza 6K Town Car Kellner

1932 Bugatti 57C Coupe

1938 Delahaye 135

1939 Mercedes Benz 540K Speziel Sports Roadster

Testors-Itelleri (8)

1933 Cadillac 452-C V-16-Joan Crawford Fleetwood Town Car

1933 Cadillac 452-C V-16-Al Jolsen Fleetwood Convertible Sedan

1929 Bugatti Royale Berline de Voyage

1929 Bugatti Royale de Villers Town Car

1929 Bugatti Royale Coupe Napoleon Town Cabriolet

1933 Rolls-Royce Phantom-II Maharaja Convertible Sedan

1934 Mercedes-Benz 500K Cabriolet C

1933 Chrysler Imperial Phaeton by LeBaron

Bandai (1)

1935 Duesenberg SJ Sedan

Eric, a couple of slight corrections::

The Japanese-,made Cord 810 is a Convertible Phaeton, not the Convertible Coupe (AKA Sportsman), and was loosely cloned from the Monogram kit, by Bandai

Bandai's 1935 Duesenberg Model J with supercharger is also loosely cloned from the Monogram Duesenberg series, but depicts a somewhat inaccurate model of the Figoni Berline.

Italeri first marketed their 1934 Mercedes Benz Kabriolet as a 380 (Mercedes identified that series of car by the engine size, even if the same car/body style had a larger engine (as in 380--3.8 liter, 500--5.liter, or 540--5.4 liter) We had a member of our local antique car club here for years, who owned and restored a '34 Mercedes 380K Kabriolet with coachwork exactly like the Italeri kit).

Southeast Finecast produces (and has for over 40 years now) a 1/24 scale kit of the 1929 Mercedes Benz SSKL roadster in white metal, and a '27 Bugatti Type 35 as well.

The Monogram "1931 Duesenberg Murphy Speedster" you mention is actually a somewhat inaccurate rendition of the single long wheelbase (153.5" wheelbase) Murphy Disappearing Top Convertible Coupe as ordered by, and built for George Whittel of Woodland and Lake Tahoe California. The actual car is a Model J, was never supercharged, and has hood sides that use Cadillac chrome plated thermostatically controlled doors in the hood sides, instead of the standard Model J concentric curved louvers. (the late Lee Baker modified the Monogram hood for this one, and scratchbuilt the standard Model J underhood exhaust manifold as used on standard Model J's, along with the standard carburetor and aircleaner, and I corrected the shape of the boattail area and cast this as a resin transkit at All American Models).

Now, if only John Hanle, owner of JoHan had completed the 1932 or 33 Packard V12 Phaeton he was said to have been working up back in the 60's!

All in all, you have the list nailed down!

Art

[keyser]

Hi Art, TJ

Don't forget the great resin conversions and kits by AAM, Etzel, Modelmartin, Scalecraft. Most very hard to find. I claimed Art as dependent way back, as I grabbed every Duesy and Cord he and Lee Baker RIP did.

AAM: Cord Sportsman, Beverly 810 slope back, Westchester 812 Trunkback, Duesy Judkins 3-w coupe, Weymann boattail Whittell, Murphy Disappearing Top Whittell, Sedan/Limo, Figoni Tapertail. I probably forgot something.

Etzel: Indy Duesenbergs, Miller

Modelmartin: Mudd Coupe Duesy, Center-door '15 T, Couplet '15 T

Scalecraft: Tapertail, Weymann boattail, Mudd Coupe, Beverly, Westchester, Sportsman, MG PA Airline for TC, more. Long defunct, hard to get even when casting.

Don't forget the very nice Heller BMW 328. Stock version and single windshield versions both. Additionally the Monogram MG-TC and Heller BMW Dixi, Citroen Dual cowl, taxi, and C-cab. Burago also did Type 55 diecast that can be made quite acceptable with work. Southeast Finecast does a Bugatti 43 too, basically a 4 seat 35.

Lee

Edited June 9, 2013 by keyser

[charlie8575]

We seriously need some new veteran kits, or for these existing tools to get re-popped. Or both.

I'd be happy with both, will take either/or.

Charlie Larkin

[duesie]

I would add that being a great fan of the older classic cars and particularly focused on the Duesenbergs that any of these listed kits can make great conversion pieces with some research and effort.

Model Martin's Mudd coupe is fantastic as is the stock Duesenberg hood he created. I have an order in for 10 of the stock hoods for already in progress Duesenbergs on my desk. The stock carb, air cleaner and stock exhaust can be cast from one of Art's old Duesenberg stock hood and accessory kit or from a Franklind Mint Gary Cooper yellow Duesenberg.

I would be a candidate for any of the reissues or new classic resin kits.

Larry Casey

[Richard Bartrop]

The biggest issue with all these kits is making the wire wheels more acceptable, a common problem with any 1/24-25 kit, as well as some 1/16 models. In 1/16, I use needle files to thin out the outer wires only. In smaller scales, look for Herb Deeks wire wheels on eBay.

I have to agree, though there are a few exceptions. THe Jo-Han classics have some very nice wire wheels, as does the Heller Bentley. In fact Jo-han's Mercedes 500k and and Cadillac V-16 kits would be at the top of my list of recommendations. The custom crowd seems to have taken to the wheels from the 500K, so snag these kits while you can. The Heller Bentley requires patience, as there are a lot of really delicate bits, but your efforts will be rewarded by a really nice model. Here's a shot of my build of it. I replaced the headlight and carb screens with brass mesh, and added some wiring, but otherwise build pretty much out of the box.

Lots of good things have already been said about the Monogram classic kits, and I agree with all that's been said so far. The wire wheels are a little thick, but that is a common issue at this scale. The Bugatti Type 35 is a very nice execution of a car that's been upgraded with later model wheels, and possibly the radiator as well. It's a very accurate model of a Type 35 from 1966, but if you want it to look like it came from the factory, you have some work ahead. If anything the exterior is closer to a Type 51, but those had a twin cam engine.

The MPC '27 Lincoln and '32 Chrysler can be a journey into madness. Lots of tiny parts that don't all quite fit together, especially on some of the reissues. However, if you're patient, and are prepared for a lot of test fitting, they do make very nice replicas. Here's a WIP of the Lincoln chassis: Like a lot of kits, it has the big fat chrome spokes, but a coat of dark paint will make that less noticable if you don't want to do a lot of scraping and filing.

If there's any kits that I'd recommend avoiding, it would be the Pyro/Lindberg Aubrun, Cord, and Lincoln Continental kits. They are 50's vintage kits that have been thoroughly abused over the years, so be prepared for some serious scratchbuilding. The Auburn is still the only kit of the boattail speedster, and some nice customs have been made from it, but the Monogram Cord and Lincoln Continental are just so much nicer. The Lindberg Continental does depict the postwar facelift, while the Monogram kit depicts the prewar model, which a lot of people think is the nicer of the two, but if you just have to have a late model Continental, I'd almost think you'd be better off trying to modify the Monogram kit. However, some of the 1/32 Pyro classics are pretty nice, especially the brass era kits.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Richard Bartrop

[sjordan2]

Yes, I have 3 copies of the JoHan Mercedes 500K Roadster Limousine; the original Gold Cup Series has beautiful wire wheels and very crisp molding, but the later reissue (red body) has quite a bit more flash, including spotty chrome coverage.

[Richard Bartrop]

Yes, I have 3 copies of the JoHan Mercedes 500K Roadster Limousine; the original Gold Cup Series has beautiful wire wheels and very crisp molding, but the later reissue (red body) has quite a bit more flash, including spotty chrome coverage.

The later Jo-han re-issues were pretty rough. I have a Cadillac Town Brougham on my to build pile, and you cah see bumps where they ground something off the mould, and didn't bother to fill it in. The badge on the stone guard has also be smoothed off. Thankfully the early issues can still be had fairly cheaply.

[Harry P.]

Anyone have a comprehensive list of what's available in 1/16 scale?

[sjordan2]

Anyone have a comprehensive list of what's available in 1/16 scale?

No comprehensive list, but I keep the subject bookmarked for eBay listings, which gives a decent overview.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Automotive-/2580/i.html?_nkw=1%2F16&_armrs=1&_from=R10&_ipg=&_pcats=1188%2C220&_sop=10

Harry is probably aware of this, but the late Martin Swire specialized in building 1/16 classic kits and some other scales. You can see some of his excellent work here:

http://www.freewebs.com/martsmodels/

Edited August 7, 2013 by sjordan2

[Paul H]

Almost certainly not definitive, but here are the 1:16 '30s car kits that I know of:

Bandai:

'37 Packard 12 Roadster

'37 Packard 12 Formal Sedan

Bugatti T41 Royale Binder Coupe de Ville

Revell

Rolls-Royce Phantom II Sedanca - very recently re-released by Revell Germany

I think that there was also a '33/34 Ford coupe and phaeton - not sure exactly which ones though, but think that they were hot rod / street rod.

There is also a Rolls-Royce Phantom III saloon / sedan in 1:16, but I'm not sure who made it.

I built the Royale a while back, and also have the Packard roadster in my to build pile, should you want any info on those two kits.

[sjordan2]

Almost certainly not definitive, but here are the 1:16 '30s car kits that I know of:

Bandai:

'37 Packard 12 Roadster

'37 Packard 12 Formal Sedan

Bugatti T41 Royale Binder Coupe de Ville

Revell

Rolls-Royce Phantom II Sedanca - very recently re-released by Revell Germany

I think that there was also a '33/34 Ford coupe and phaeton - not sure exactly which ones though, but think that they were hot rod / street rod.

There is also a Rolls-Royce Phantom III saloon / sedan in 1:16, but I'm not sure who made it.

I built the Royale a while back, and also have the Packard roadster in my to build pile, should you want any info on those two kits.

Almost certainly not definitive, but here are the 1:16 '30s car kits that I know of:

Bandai:

'37 Packard 12 Roadster

'37 Packard 12 Formal Sedan

Bugatti T41 Royale Binder Coupe de Ville

Revell

Rolls-Royce Phantom II Sedanca - very recently re-released by Revell Germany

I think that there was also a '33/34 Ford coupe and phaeton - not sure exactly which ones though, but think that they were hot rod / street rod.

There is also a Rolls-Royce Phantom III saloon / sedan in 1:16, but I'm not sure who made it.

I built the Royale a while back, and also have the Packard roadster in my to build pile, should you want any info on those two kits.

The Rolls Phantom III was released by Anmark, Academy/Minicraft, Entex and Revell. I think it was originally a Gunze Sangyo (I have only seen 2 builds of this kit, neither of which was well done, but it's a beautiful kit), But there are a zillion more, including Fords, Morgan, Jaguar SS 100 etc. I recommend that you look at the link I posted above, #44, for Martin Swire and eBay 1/16.

[sjordan2]

The Rolls Phantom III, I believe, was originally from Gunze Sangyo; it has been reissued by Anmark, Academy Minicraft, Entex and Revell, and I have all versions. Beautiful kit, but I've only seen 2 builds, and neither was well done. As for a broader view of 1/16 classic kits, please see the links I posted in reply #44.

EDIT: I won't even go into the problems I've had posting on this thread, and why this post is redundant to the last one and I can't get rid of it. Let's just say I truly miss the Delete button. I have zero problems with any other forums or websites.

Edited August 7, 2013 by sjordan2

[sjordan2]

One thing I might add, which seems to be common among virtually ALL classic Rolls-Royce kits, except for Pocher, is the failure to accurately depict the radiator shutters. They opened and closed by thermostats, and every kit I've seen makes it look like they have thin, permanent vertical strips, whereas closed radiator shutters - the most typical - would look wider and be positioned at an angle. Pocher, of course, makes you jump through hoops to assemble those shutter vanes. A more realistic build would be somewhere between the wide-open shutters and the shot below.

Shutters closed:

Edited August 7, 2013 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

Pocher, of course, makes you jump through hoops to assemble those shutter vanes.

Pocher makes you jump through hoops to assemble everything! But the shutters on Pocher RRs are nice... they're metal strips with the vertical rib embossed into each vane, just like the real deal, and the RR radiators go together well. Too bad the rest of the kits aren't that painless!

[Art Anderson]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but Ideal Toy Corporation (who did make a FEW very well-done model car kits back in the very early 60's) produced a 1:10 scale plastic kit of the 1929 Duesenberg Model J Roadster (body by the Walter Murphy Company of Pasadena CA) that was owned by Duesenberg Inc's single best customer, George Whittel, of Lake Tahoe and Woodland CA (Whittel bought 5 Duesenbergs, from 1929-33). A very rare kit today, but also a very nice one.

Art