Polishing..

[Nick F40]

I know some of you do it, I was wondering how, what to use and the right method. I have 4 coats of DupliColor clear.

[Guest Davkin]

I use 3M Finecut rubbing compound to get the paint smooth. Once I get it smooth I use 3M Imperial Hand Glaze to really make it shine. I also paint with laquers.

David

[Zoom Zoom]

Wetsand with 3200/3600/4000/6000, maybe 8K and 12K Micromesh (if it's a dark color), followed by liquid compound.

If you use Tamiya sprays (which decant/airbrush nicely) you can often get away with murder, often just 4000 and then go right to their coarse, fine, and finish compounds which cut their own paint like magic.

[cruz]

Come on bro!!! I have told you about this before and on top of that your pops is a master at this!!! Just bsing with you!!!!! Well for starters, you should have enough clear that you won't rub through. I always tell people that are doing this for the first time to try it on a spare body or hood in order not to mess up a work in progress build.

Personally, depending on how rough the orange peel is I start with a 3200 grit sheet of sanding pad. This level will do the most work as it will take off the majority of the orange peel usually present on your paint after spraying but you also need to be careful not to rub through your clear. If the orange peel isn't rough you can start out with the 3600 and sometimes even the 4000. The pads start at 3200 and continue to 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000 and lastly to 12,000 which is your final pad. Not all glossy paints require a clear coat, this is always an option. Some of the available paints today have enough inherent gloss in them that you can opt on the alternatives to clear coating.

I like the wet sanding method but my advice to the newcomers is to start out dry, it will be easier to monitor your progress this way. You will also find out that even the experts at times don't like the wet sanding method, it all depends on your taste once you master the process. One advantage to wet sanding is that the pads will last longer and your job will be quicker but if you don't monitor your progress closely you will undoubtley rub through your paints!

It is not necessary to put much pressure on your pad when rubbing out your paints specially with the subsequent grades of pads, let the pad do its work, if necessary you can always go back to any level and go from there but you must not skip between pads for you will leave a lot of scratches on your finish. Each pad compliments the next by leveling the paint out.

The ideal thing to do is practice and you will ultimately get it. One thing I will guarantee you is that once you master it you won't go back to just shooting paint on your models any more. There are still some people out there that occasionally tell me that this practice is a waste of time, but it's funny that the majority of those people that tell me that usually have about three cans of paint on their cars with no panel line or details present on their models.

You can also opt to sand between coats, this will also help minimize the chances of dust particles being present on your final coats. When sanding between coats you don't need to go through each pad, just use a 4000 or 6000 for this or whichever one you prefer once you learn how to utilize them. Another thing I advice people and specially guys that are new to this is to learn to pace yourself, you get out what you put in. Painting can sometimes be a tedious process but you will agree with me that it is the first thing that attracts people to your models. Learn this phase of the scale automotive hobby and usually everything else relating to your builds will just fall into place.

[Guest Davkin]

Or just use Testor's MML Ultra Gloss or Wet Look and all you have to do is rub it out and polish, no wet-sanding necessary.

David

[E St. Kruiser50]

I know some of you do it, I was wondering how, what to use and the right method. I have 4 coats of DupliColor clear.

OK - I'm going to step in it here

All these guy's have their own process that works for them, but to me, put way too much work and un-necessary time into finishing, and wait way too long to start the finishings process - just my opinion.

BOY AM I IN TROUBLE NOW .

The other thing I hear a lot about is OFF-GASSING .

To me no such thing that matters a lick.

Ask a REAL CAR painter and they'll just give you a blank stare - like what planet did you come from.

They're to busy sprayin' and finishin' to worry about it.

Yes, I've painted my share of REAL CARS including some nice street rods of mine.

TOO MANY PEOPLE SEEM TO BE MAKIN' UP STUFF UP, AND OTHER'S BELIEVIN IT AND REPEATIN' IT. SORRY - again, just my own opinion, and observation, not a critisism of anybody.

HERE'S SOME NEW IDEA'S

Just like in the the article's you read in BOTH magazines, just like it say's on every spray can (Does anyone read it? I didn't use to - LOL), and like every car painter guy will tell you........

15 MINUTES APART - INCLUDING THE CLEAR

THREE COATS OF COLOR

LIGHT

MEDIUM

HEAVY

THREE COATS OF CLEAR

LIGHT

MEDIUM

HEAVY

WAIT 12 HOURS

RUB IT OUT

PREP IS EVERYTHING GUY'S.

I NEVER have to sand anything before I rub out the paint, and I NEVER sand anything between coats of paint, because the primer surface is like glass before I shoot my very first coat of paint, and should stay that way pretty much, all through the painting process.

This is just everyday stuff for a real-time car painter. Any descent painter will lay down a glass smooth surface, as a matter of coarse, with minimal to no orange peal at all, with minimal to zero buffing needed to finish.

This idea of waiting a week after spraying color invites catastrophe when you spray on the clear or more color.

I PAINT WET-IN-WET. I NEVER LET THE PAINT DRY UNTIL I'M DONE RUBBING IT OUT.

ONCE I'VE STARTED PAINTING, EVEN WITH MULTIPLES OF COLORS AND CLEAR, THE LONGEST I EVER WAIT IS 12 HOURS FOR TAPING AND SPRAYING MULTIPLE COLORS, AND ONE HOUR IN MOST OTHER CASES.

REMEMBER - ALL PAINTS HAVE A 12 HOUR - 24 HOUR WINDOW FOR SPRAYING BEFORE YOU HAVE TO SAND THE ENTIRE SURFACE TO RE-SPRAY.

URETHANES - 12 HOURS

MOST LAQUERS - 24 HOURS

No car painter does that, NOT EVEN WITH GRAPHICS and inter-coat clears.

When paint dries, it's chemical make up changes, and so becomes less and less compatible, with many of the clears, or even the same color you spray over it a week later. That's why you hear so many people complain about "Alligatoring" - paint attacking itself.

For me it's simple - I finish the primer to a glass finish - no more than 2000 grit.

For me, anything beyond that in my process is a waist of time and effort.

After color and the last coat of clear, I wait 12 hours, and then begin the finishing process with Novus #2 Plastic polish (Paint is plastic).

Remember, WHEN THE PAINT (Lacquer or urethane) IS 12 HOURS OLD, IT IS STILL IN A LIQUID STATE, and the rubbing is a method of "SMOOTHING THE PAINT OUT" without removing hardly any material - LIKE ROLLING OUT A PIE CRUST.

EVEN WITH SOME ORANGE PEAL, YOU SIMPLY RUB IT SMOOTH WITH NO SANDING .

When I'm satisfied with the CLARITY AND SMOOTHNESS from the Novus, I continue the finishing with an automotive paint finishing product called Finesse-it ll Finishing Material by 3M, THAT I GET FROM AN AUTO PAINT STORE.

Using this makes the finish "POP" like you wouldn't believe.

Then lastly, I wax it with Meguiar's #7 Professional Show Car Glaze, according to the instruction's ( I always read the label LOL).

I HAVEN'T SANDED A FINAL FINISH OR ANY PART OF IT IN 10 YEARS - NO KIDDING - NOT EVEN ON THE HOLLYWOOD OR THE RETRO-VETTE.

Just one more opinion and process to confuse you , but maybe some of it will RUB OFF

Thanks for letting me share - dave

Edited June 9, 2009 by Treehugger Dave

[Foxer]

As usual, Dave, I love your way of thinking and the common sense behind it all. I think the biggest problem all of us have is orange peel and how to prevent that. That's the reason for all this sanding going on. I have gleaned from all your painting tips that you go on a 3 week sabbatical with your paint guns when new. I AM being silly, but is it just that practice, practice, practice with the gun and the specific paint on this one job and then can throw the polishing cloths away?

I have a buildup of bodies with reservations on the new paint booth but the operator is getting paranoid after this long break from painting. I highly value your experience here and would love a dissertation on the matter. And that goes for all you great painters out there!

[E St. Kruiser50]

As usual, Dave, I love your way of thinking and the common sense behind it all. I think the biggest problem all of us have is orange peel and how to prevent that. That's the reason for all this sanding going on. I have gleaned from all your painting tips that you go on a 3 week sabbatical with your paint guns when new. I AM being silly, but is it just that practice, practice, practice with the gun and the specific paint on this one job and then can throw the polishing cloths away?

I have a buildup of bodies with reservations on the new paint booth but the operator is getting paranoid after this long break from painting. I highly value your experience here and would love a dissertation on the matter. And that goes for all you great painters out there!

I think fear and paranoia are the biggest detriments to a great paint job and to creativity.

To me it's nothing ventured nothing gained.

Why be afraid to fail?

It's the fastest way to learn.

As Bill Geary say's over and over - PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

Get yourself some cleaned up food cans without the labels, and just have fun sprayin' whether it's an airbrush or Rattle-can.

Do a coupla dozen with different primers and colors and brands, and experiment with different clears, and just have fun seeing what the results are. Be surprised what you'll learn and how much you'll relax.

I did a painting seminar two years ago at a club meeting.

I sprayed 3 coats of color and 3 coats of clear all in 5 minutes, no 15 minute gaps - and it still came out smooth and "CHINEY" .

You shoulda seen the looks on everyones face .

The universal response was, "I DIDN'T KNOW IT COULD BE THAT EASY"

FORGET THE WORRY THING MY FRIEND IT'S ONLY PLASTIC.

Here's a fun little project to show you what I mean.

This is a mercedes A160.

A friend sold me this kit years ago, and I had a new "APPLE" color I wanted to try out. So yeaterday, after some samples, I SHOT THIS WITH THE ENAMEL GREEN, AND THEN IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES BEGAN CLEAR COATING WITH A "HOT LACQUER" PLASTICOTE CLEAR-COAT, THEN RUBBED IT OUT THIS MORNING.

HOT LACQUER over ENAMEL .

WORKS EVERY TIME WHEN YA KNOW HOW .

Edited June 10, 2009 by Treehugger Dave

[Foxer]

Thanks for the reply, Dave. I probably overstate my painting paranoia, but we all have our favorite areas ... I love the bodywork ... there's not a piece of plastic I won't cut to pieces. Painting is my absolute least favorite area ... I dislike the whole messy process. Did I mention I hate cleaning up after myself? eheh I have destroyed bodies learning the pitfalls of lacquer on plastic long ago and have also gotten some good paint jobs needing little polishing. Typically though, I believe orange peel is the natural state of paint and we are doing unnatural things twisting paint into a smooth shiny puddle. I know practice makes perfect, but I guess I don't want painting as a full time job. And I understand fully what you are saying, don't get me wrong.

All you've said has been immensely helpful and I'm sure not to just me.

[E St. Kruiser50]

but I guess I don't want painting as a full time job.

I'M RETIRED - NO JOB - EHEH

[Foxer]

I'M RETIRED - NO JOB - EHEH

Me too! that's my point! :lol: I'll persevere ... the hunks of plastic in the body shop are getting real close to the paint booth, but summer is here too and the weather has been fantastic!

Thanks again for all this insight , Dave

Edited June 10, 2009 by Foxer

[Nick F40]

Thank you, and thanks Bob, that's probably what i'll do. I know about the wet sanding, (I like to do) through the grits and just polishing it but I needed to know how to use the rubbing compound and polish it out.

Cruz, I know all you taught me and remember, my dad learned from you I like your method, of course, that's what I did on my Fairlady Z and Focus but i was just wondering with the compound. Randy said that it might take off paint, which it's kind of supposed to but it might take off more.

Here's what i'm doing, Audi Quattro, rally. I have Turtle Wax Premium Grade Rubbing Compund and Meguiars Scratch X

Edited June 11, 2009 by Nick F40

[cruz]

Thank you, and thanks Bob, that's probably what i'll do. I know about the wet sanding, (I like to do) through the grits and just polishing it but I needed to know how to use the rubbing compound and polish it out.

Cruz, I know all you taught me and remember, my dad learned from you I like your method, of course, that's what I did on my Fairlady Z and Focus but i was just wondering with the compound. Randy said that it might take off paint, which it's kind of supposed to but it might take off more.

Here's what i'm doing, Audi Quattro, rally. I have Turtle Wax Premium Grade Rubbing Compund and Meguiars Scratch X

Looks good Nick but try taking that picture on the same sunny day but under a deck or something, the gloss will be more noticable when photographing it against the sunny background, something like this.....

Hosted on Fotki

Right now, the metal flakes are making it a little impossible to see the glossy surface. Try it for me okay!! Please!!! Please!! By the way, I love that Quattro, gots to get my paws on one.... Those body lines are sweet man, you have to get this one done man. Say hi to your pops and tell him that I regret teaching him how to polish, he is kicking my "trasero" every time we compete.

[Nick F40]

Right now, the metal flakes are making it a little impossible to see the glossy surface. Try it for me okay!! Please!!! Please!! By the way, I love that Quattro, gots to get my paws on one.... Those body lines are sweet man, you have to get this one done man. Say hi to your pops and tell him that I regret teaching him how to polish, he is kicking my "trasero" every time we compete.

It's cloudy today so I'll try it. Yeah, this is one of my favorites and yeah me to, especially 1:1. I definetly want to get this one done for next meeting, which you'll get to see it!

[Nick F40]

here's some better ones

Could I just use 4000 and 6000, then rub it out?

[beefheart22]

Dave,

After reading your post, I've just realized I've been trying all this glossy finish business the hard way! What you detailed seems pretty straight forward and just may save me a heck-a-lot-a-time to get more building in on my weekends. Gonna give 'er a try.