Maindrian Pace Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I guess they were right in a way, anyone can polish a diecast. But only a modeler can do a conversion like that, and they doubtless didn't have a clue that it never cane as a convertible, or of all of the additional details added. Next time, it would be fun to take a small photo album of the build along just in case you run into any more diecast snobs. Just nicely tell them, "May I show you something?"... -MJS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Wow3 I can't wait to see the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyglu Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Simply put you are to good...consider it one of the biggest compliments one could ever receive. You did such a outstanding job they had no clue that it did not come from the toy company that way. They probably thought you added a few details to the engine, maybe painted a few things and polished the paint. I think It looks rad and I would be really proud of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale-Master Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 As the post above points out, the judges may very well have assumed it came as a finished die-cast that way. To me anyone trying to make a "model" out of a die-cast is starting on an uphill battle compared to working with styrene. I find the metal is not as easy to work as plastic. So to achieve what is deemed "equal to plastic" requires more effort. Good job on this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I agree... the judges obviously thought your model came that way from the factory and didn't have a clue as to how much work was actually put into it. But on a related note, I still read posts from some people who insist that a diecast model is not a model. I'll never understand that attitude. Yes, a factory-assembled diecast model that you buy as a finished product is not a modek kit.... but it's obviously a model. And like Mark said, modifying and customizing diecast models is every bit as much "real" modeling as doing the same with a plastic kit. The material the pieces are made of don't define the "legitimacy" of the model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent G Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Simply put you are to good...consider it one of the biggest compliments one could ever receive. You did such a outstanding job they had no clue that it did not come from the toy company that way. They probably thought you added a few details to the engine, maybe painted a few things and polished the paint. I think It looks rad and I would be really proud of it. Ditto x2 G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw035 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 mike u did an awesome job on that diecast...i to have done several rebuilds of diecast none comes close to what u did...i agree with jacen...plastic should be judged with plastic and diecast with diecast...if the judges saw the work that went into that build i dont think tere would be any negative comment....grt8 job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale-Master Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) In regards to the "factory assembled" vs. "kit", often taking apart a diecast is more work than starting with a kit. I have had to break parts to remove them since they are assembled to stay that way. Windows and lights are sensitive items, plus all the tampo details may need to be replaced with in most cases custom art/decals. Repairs to broken parts are common to make a "factory assembled" model into a kit to be built/rebuilt. So my question is, once the "factory assembled" subject has been reduced to its original parts, is it not a kit again? An argument can be made to unbuild and rebuild a "factory assembled" model takes more work than starting with a virgin kit. As far as in competition, count me as one who agrees that there should be different classes for modified die-cast and traditional kits. Not every one does as much work as this on modifying a die-cast. While this one may be competitive in the traditional arena, in most cases the separation makes it easier and fairer to judge them seperately. Edited December 31, 2011 by Scale-Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) mrm - Did you do any detailing or modifications to the chassis, suspension, drive train parts, etc? Edited December 31, 2011 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyglu Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 See that is why this forum is the best..everyone has insightful opinions and more importantly they know how to express them respectfully. I have never messed with die-cast, but I think Mark makes a great point....I mean once completely broke down It is as much of a model kit as the all the ones I buy sealed up at the LHS. I fell like the point here is that if something is being judged by a person lacking knowledge on that subject how can that work.. I have a keen eye and think I would do awesome judging a plastic model kit, but If you showed me the finished product of that ferrari and told me it was die-cast I would have to ask you what you changed..I just would have no clue. Honestly it seems that you should definitely realize the level of your skills and know that these comments were made out of lack of knowledge...that is how the majority of us humans put our foot's in our mouths. Looking forward to seeing some more of your work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Some contests have a "Modified Diecast" category. But that can create its own set of problems. The model we've seen here is obviously a modified diecast... but so is one where only the wheels/tires have been swapped out. But pitting those two against each other in a contest is unfair. So the answer is... different classes for different degrees of modification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale-Master Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 At our annual show (CFAC) we have a Modified Die-Cast category. We try to access the amount of work, and the quality of work, not always easy because some have factory paint and others are fully rebuilt. Ironically, some entrants think that simply waxing a die-cast is enough to make it "modified". (We don't.) We also allow significantly modified die-casts (fully rebuilt and refinished) to be entered in the traditional classes, but they get no extra points or passes for being a more difficult medium to work in. They are judged on the end product. The entrants are advised they are possibly handicapping themselves by doing so. There is no easy one size fits all answer for this at contests. Each situation has to be handled as it comes while following the spirit of the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groo12 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Simply awesome. I would have never thought that could be done to a die cast. You have amazing skill and patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62rebel Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 wow.... i'm not getting into the fray one way or the other, but that is excellent work. a quick kick in the shins was definitely in order, if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyBad Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Looks like a mighty fine build of a model. Nice scratch building work and Metal (to me) is no easy task.. Nice work.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdkingjay Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 An amazing amount of work and you deserve the award you got. In my opinion, almost anyone can modify a diecast, however, what seperates the men from the boys is the execution of it. Yours is beautifully done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrm Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Well guys, first and foremost I want to say a big thank you to everyone, not just because of the compliments this model is receiving, but also for the participation in this discussion and keeping it really civil. I still have not figured out how exactly the multi quote works, so bear with me. Just like someone said, this is the best thing about this place - so many diverse opinions, yet presented in a civil way that is not offensive to anyone. I love reading the different points of view belonging to the different people on here. And I must say it gives me a nice insight that I did not have before about some things. I agree with almost all said so far even if some of the opinions expressed are somewhat contradicting with each other. I believe that diecast and model kits are two different things that will never be able to mix and their respective fans will probably never integrate, me being an exception. I fully support the opinion that if diecast is alowed on a show it should have its own class and be judjed separately from the rest of the models. But also it should be judged by people who are at least somewhat familiar with the medium. And if they are not, then reading the descriptions should be a must. The issue here is not that judges don't read descriptions on contests. I am sure they do, but when it comes to diecast they are just being bypast, because anyone can polish one. That phrase cought on me, not because of the demonstrated ignorance in the particular case, but because I realized that it is the mentality of a huge portion of the model builders in general. Here I will have to agree with the previous comments that there is a line in diecast, which when crossed makes the model just that - another model and it no longer matters what it started as. Once broken down to pieces and start over it is no different than any Monogram model in my LHS. I mean if you look at the model I showed, the interior is all plastic, the engine is all plastic, the rear hood is all plastic and pretty much the only thing metal are the fenders and the doors. I would still not enter it in a class to be judged against regular plastic kits. Now, let me say this. I really enjoyed my time at the Heartland Nationals in 2011. I was blown away by the hospitality of the people and how comfortable I felt. I am really bad with names, so I'll ask to be excused for not mentioning everyone who I met. I got there in a Red Bull infused rush and arrived beat up and all sweaty. They were nice to chat with me and give me a new T-shirt to change my stinky one. I had every intention to make the trip in 2012 again, but after I found out the theme is going to be '32 Fords the visit became A MUST. I think the show was fantastic with a great number of outstanding models and I would recomend to anyone to go check it out. I think that having a couple of diecast speciffic classes is a great move and a step in the right direction toward attempting to integrate the diecast enthusiasts with the plastic kit builders. However I think that next year a little more attension should be paid to what is on the table in that class. This thread is not about critisizing the said competition, but to show that that the gap between plastic models and modified diecast may be smaller than most think and through showcasing what goes into one such modification, there could be some appretiation earned for diecasts at contests. Hopefully that would also earn more respect for the class on future contests across the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darquewanderer Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 mrm, Beautiful. Period. As a builder of one when I get the chance and a collector of the other, you've given me some evil ideas. I'm looking forward to the next two builds. Just one question... What brand of polish did you use? I want a case of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abell82 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Wouldn't it be pertinent to take an unaltered diecast and the modified sortof a before and after just to show the amount of work done to finish it? Including the picture journal as well as a non- altered die-cast would allow ANY one to see the work done, and put all such comments to rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 There are diecast kits available and there have been pre-painted, assembled plastic models as well as pre-painted kits! It absolutely doesn't matter what the material is you start with. A model is a model. For those who have a fetish for categorizing whether or not you start with a kit, diecast, styrene, etc. what do you do with scratchbuilt models? Semi-scratchbuilt? Does it matter if you used brass, aluminum, or styrene. How about enamel or lacquer paint? Hand painted markings, dry transfers or waterslide decals? Superglue, epoxy, white glue or Testors glue? I sure hope not. It doesn't matter if the starting point is zinc alloy, resin, wood, white metal, or styrene plastic. A model is a model! I personally don't think there should be a diecast category at a model contest. It should fit in any of the normal categories, right? NNL shows are a differnt matter. A modified diecast category there is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete J. Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I have only done one die cast and it was an absolute bear! Mark is right on the money with the comments about disassembly. The model I did was an MGB GT. I broke every piece of side molding and window frame getting it off and drilling out the heated stubs of plastic without breaking the part was a really chore. When it came to striping the parts, that was also a challenge. Some of the stuff they plate these models with is not to be believed. Then once the body was stipped, there were file markes as deep as the Grand Canyon all over it. Just the metal prepwork took weeks. Yea, I suppose anyone can polish a diecast, but it takes a real modeler to take it back to a kit and then make a decient finished product. As far as the contest, a story book like you did here would have gone a long way toward helping dispell the attitudes. Any time you do that with either diecast or plastic you do yourself and the judges a favor in showing the work. A good three ring binder with photos can make the differance. Great model! keep after it and I am sure the model world will come arround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 This is a very nice build that has a lot of nice work done to it. One question I have is "is this how you displayed your model at the show?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgflatliner Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Looking at this makes me want to restore an old maisto Ferrari F50. Or even yet, all of those diecast cars in my closet... Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEKPETHO BCE Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Looking at the finished product it's hard to believe it didn't come that way from the manufacturer. Everything looks exactly how it's supposed to. You, my friend, have some amazing skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatt88 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Mike, Killer job on the Ferrari! I love taking something ordinary and making it better, thats why I do rebuilds. I, too, have a small collection of 1/18th scale diecasts, and I've toyed with the idea of pulling them apart and reworking them. Unfortunately, I have way too many plastic projects going right now to worry about it. Maybe someday. I would love to see more of your work. Keep it up. Cheers, Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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