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Question about presenting models at a show.


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Because I do entire buildings as dioramas , I usually include a book with photos of the actual building , construction shots and a few select shots of previous shows . The Judges don't pay any attention to the books . The people attending usually enjoy them and truthfully, I'm more after their votes anyway . Judges generally can't discern what a archecturial diorama is anyway !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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If a judge needs to be spoon-fed information to know what he's looking at then he shouldn't be a judge.

Why not? Factory stock would be a category that I would hope they understand the subject matter, but not every judge is an expert in every make/model of car/truck. Replica stock, again, the judges may have no knowledge of the subject at hand. Also, Lets say for example, you had one rim you liked but not a set, and you cast the rest of them, or one seat a cast and duplicate, or that you scratch built certain parts, how would they know that unless you told them? Having said that, a judge does not need to know anything about certain makes/models to understand that someone left a mold seem where one would never ever be, or that one paint job is better than another. I see really shiny paint jobs win paint awards, but to me, they are WAY way too scale thick. doing extra work for the sake of doing extra does not mean a finished model is better. Yeah, someone opened the doors, but if they hacked them up, and they do not fit or look right????

Aside from that, it is not always just the judge that is reading it. The spectators may want to know more, such how long did it take, what kits did you bash, "oh this dude cast his own wheels!" and so on. Much like looking at the i"n progress" builds on this forum....I do not only want to look at the under glass category. Tell me more! LOL

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The problem with detailed descriptions are there just aren't enough hours during the event to contemplate every minutiae of each model. Heck there isn't enough time as a gawker to read all of them. State concisely the high points, one sentence or less for each point. Much of the rest may be visually obvious and needs no description; ("engine wired and plumbed, hand polished paint, BMF," etc).

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i think in every "trade" it's important to educate the audience/ consumer. to be successful doing this, you need to address the audience in terms they can understand. when the audience is broad, it's a bit more of a challenge to make the least knowing understand whilst not boring those with experience.

but typed anything is usually more better than chickenscratched everything.

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I think detailed descriptions are good. Some builders do modifications so well that the untrained eye may mistake them as being "from the kit." I know a little about '40's & '50's customs, but much less about other subjects. At a recent show, I saw a riding lawnmower model made from the pull cart from a F1 kit (if I'm not mistaken) If it wouldn't have been for the build detail booklet, I would have never know about all the scratch building skill that went into this little thing. It looked so good, I thought, "Man, that's a really nicely built kit."

Unfortunately, not all judges know what they are looking at, especially at smaller IPMS contests. At a contest quite a few years ago, they were low on judges & they asked me be be one. I really didn't want to, but at the same time, wanted to help them out. Guess what I was judging?......Boats! What do I know about boats?? But, by IPMS rules, it's all about how WELL it's done, not necessarily the amount of work that went into something.

I don't read every detail sheet or book someone places next to a model, but it's nice for it to be there in case someone is interested.

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I know this may be "poking the bear", but bears are so much fun to poke... ;)

I'm a little disappointed to see mentioned by two people that IPMS contests may be ignoring the amount of modifications done to a model (no matter the local level or not).

I feel that if the basics have been done well that the extra work should be considered by judges (at critically judged contests) and in builds where extensive work has been done that is not kit based, I feel that well presented notation should seriuously be considered by the entrant and that the judges should have the courtesy to read at least the first three lines in order to gage if they need to read further.

I will use a build I have posted here as an example: a Pyro/Lindberg based 1934 Ford. ( which has survived about 30 years and several changes of residence )

1. this kit has a multi-piece body, no chrome and all chassis detail is molded in, the hood does come as a separate 2-piece item but no engine included in this kit.

2. the engine was sourced from a Monogram Nova kit, spark plug and fuel lines added after filing and cutting various areas on the engine to make it look more like a small block chevy.

3. the hand stitched upholstered front seats sourced from a Monogram Charger kit as was the dash which had to be shortened to fit.

4. the hand stitched upholstered rumble seat was made from the kit bench seat but was shortened to fit the trunk area.

5. the doors were cut open and hinged, they do actually close all the way without binding.

6. the back half of the chassis was removed and replaced with the back half of the Monogram Nova chassis and 3rd member assembly in order to resolve the molded in detail problem.

7. the front suspension is also from the Nova kit but shortened to fit

8. the firewall was scratch built from evergreen and a master cylinder with the pigtail lines added.

9. the final change was the wheels/tires sourced from slot cars.

Now, remember that all of the above was done in 1/32 scale.

If you just happened to be judging a Small Scale class that was mostly open wheel race cars ( which are painted/assembled well), the above '34 Ford and maybe a well executed (out of the box) '55 Chevy snap together...would you honestly take the time to read the detail sheet and give proper consideration to the build or would you just give first place to an open wheel race car because you may like them more than street rods or give top honors to the pretty pink '55 Chevy because that paint job was AWESOME and '55 Chevies are your favorite car?

Whenever I was judging a class that had serious competition and builds that may qualify for master awards I always tried to read notations for the build, if the class was lightly populated it may not have been necessary to read the notes in order to pick a winner.

Even if you don't include notes so that the judges can know what work you've done, other builders may see what you've done and get inspired to try new things after they've seen what parts to use and how they go together.

Edited by blunc
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Hi,

I would definitely say you need to add a build card. It also needs to be typed with good English so it is easy for people to read and understand. Adding a build card helps judges as it gives extra information (no one is going to know everything and they certainly weren't there when you built the model) and viewers get the opportunity to learn more about the model if they are interested in it.

Keep it brief, this may mean if you have done a lot to a model you'll just be mentioning the highlights (or, in other words, what makes the build different) as people don't want to read reams of information. Judges often don't have the time to read a lot anyway. Add a few photos, but once again, don't overdo it.

Entering competitions pushes you as a builder and I enjoy entering them. However, the same model will do well in one but not place in another (sometimes up against the same competition) and judges will have opinions so don't waste time getting frustrated when you do not place in the top 3 (or whatever you goal may be at a particular show). Be pleasantly suprised when you are successful - there are a lot of good builders around and judging shows is not an easy task.

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If a judge needs to be spoon-fed information to know what he's looking at then he shouldn't be a judge.

And why? Ask yourself: Whom do you know that is expertly knowledgeable about each and every automotive subject that might be presented for judging at a model car contest? That would be a very tall, and I believe, an impossible order.

Art

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Yep. Even if you built it box stock, have that info available for the judges (and/or whoever else might be interested in knowing). I have started spec sheets during my builds, both to keep track of what I'm doing and to have the info readily available for editing, condensing, etc, when that build is ready to be displayed at a show. I get them ready in advance and have them printed before the show, and bring two- one to display with the model, one in case the build is chosen for pictures.

I've been on both sides of contest judging and you can't provide too much info for those who are judging, even if it's a people's choice contest. It's impossible for any judge to know all about each and every kit that has been produced, much less determine exactly what has been done to any particular build of any kit.

I once won "Best Pickup" at a show because I used Testors paint- the builder of the equally nice contender used an automotive paint; the judges thought it was easier to obtain a nice finish with that kind of paint. Without that spec sheet, they wouldn't have known what I used.

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As a judge, I have to say we look at what is presented.

On the subject of not knowing everything about every make of car, we know that and consequently, search out those of us that do have some knowledge on any certain build.

Most often time is of the essence, contestants want the results, thus looking through a myriad of books, spec. cards or descriptions longer than the space provide on the contest cards, I'd have to say we don't have time.

Moving on with this subject, I've often wondered if a question and answer period after the judging would be beneficial? I realize this would open up a big can of worms.

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In retrospect to my previous comments, in a very real way this is one of those "damned if I do damned if I don't" kind of things. That said, at many of the contests I've attended/entered over the years, judging has been done from the viewpoint of the model itself, not nearly as much "He nailed that wiring harness" or "there's a bolt missing, and I see it" from judges.

After all, saved for someone's self-opinion of themselves, a contest judge who's completely knowledgeable about each and every year, make and model of car more than likely is non-existent.

Art

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....wondered if a question and answer period after the judging would be beneficial?...

probably not practical for a one day show (time constraints) but great for the second day of a convention style affair. sunday morning, coffee, and some modeling chit-chat.

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I know this may be "poking the bear", but bears are so much fun to poke... ;)

I'm a little disappointed to see mentioned by two people that IPMS contests may be ignoring the amount of modifications done to a model (no matter the local level or not).

I feel that if the basics have been done well that the extra work should be considered by judges (at critically judged contests) and in builds where extensive work has been done that is not kit based, I feel that well presented notation should seriuously be considered by the entrant and that the judges should have the courtesy to read at least the first three lines in order to gage if they need to read further.

I will use a build I have posted here as an example: a Pyro/Lindberg based 1934 Ford. ( which has survived about 30 years and several changes of residence )

1. this kit has a multi-piece body, no chrome and all chassis detail is molded in, the hood does come as a separate 2-piece item but no engine included in this kit.

2. the engine was sourced from a Monogram Nova kit, spark plug and fuel lines added after filing and cutting various areas on the engine to make it look more like a small block chevy.

3. the hand stitched upholstered front seats sourced from a Monogram Charger kit as was the dash which had to be shortened to fit.

4. the hand stitched upholstered rumble seat was made from the kit bench seat but was shortened to fit the trunk area.

5. the doors were cut open and hinged, they do actually close all the way without binding.

6. the back half of the chassis was removed and replaced with the back half of the Monogram Nova chassis and 3rd member assembly in order to resolve the molded in detail problem.

7. the front suspension is also from the Nova kit but shortened to fit

8. the firewall was scratch built from evergreen and a master cylinder with the pigtail lines added.

9. the final change was the wheels/tires sourced from slot cars.

Now, remember that all of the above was done in 1/32 scale.

If you just happened to be judging a Small Scale class that was mostly open wheel race cars ( which are painted/assembled well), the above '34 Ford and maybe a well executed (out of the box) '55 Chevy snap together...would you honestly take the time to read the detail sheet and give proper consideration to the build or would you just give first place to an open wheel race car because you may like them more than street rods or give top honors to the pretty pink '55 Chevy because that paint job was AWESOME and '55 Chevies are your favorite car?

Whenever I was judging a class that had serious competition and builds that may qualify for master awards I always tried to read notations for the build, if the class was lightly populated it may not have been necessary to read the notes in order to pick a winner.

Even if you don't include notes so that the judges can know what work you've done, other builders may see what you've done and get inspired to try new things after they've seen what parts to use and how they go together.

Well said, and I can attest to the quality of this car as having just seen it in person last week at the Desert Scale Classic.

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I like to see build cards simply due to the fact that if a modification is done well, it may not be obvious to even an experienced judge. They don't always have the knowledge of whether the mod, let's say an altered wheelbase, was done by hand or came that way in the original kit.

My speciality is vintage drag cars. I would be useless judging a military diorama, vintage aircraft or even factory stock cars, even though I worked in automotive service for 25+ years. For many people it's a conflict of interest because they are only qualified to judge the class they are entered in.

I'm not a trophy hound either. I get plenty of peer recognition from my friends during the show. I don't need a plaque to prove that, just great memories. Placing is just a bonus.

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