Speedfreak Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Title pretty much says it; Can I use Model Master enamel over Tamiya Primer (lacquer) without problems? The plan is to let the primer dry for two hours then put on the enamel, is this going to work? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobraman Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 That should be fine but it is always a good idea to test on a scrap part or a plastic spoon. Enamel over lacquer normally is ok but not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slusher Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Will work fine Gene, I have used that combination many times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Thanks you guys! I knew I could count on this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Gene I'm glad you asked this question. I've been wondering the same thing myself. I've tried lacquer paint over enamel primer. This did not work. But, the guys in the local model car club just warned me not to use lacquer and enamel together in that way, after the fact. At the same time I've painted models in lacquer and then used enamel with regular brushes to paint small details. Details like running boards, taillights, etc. And have had no problems. I'm in the process of planing on doing a series of Minnesota Highway Patrol cars. The cars will be a specific maroon with white doors (and in the case of the '70 Ford, a white roof also). For that reason I'll be putting down the white first. I have the Ditzler numbers for the correct maroon color. I have to have that painted custom mixed for me. I don't know if that paint will be enamel or lacquer, so I've been avoiding doing the white for now because of the same question you had. If enamel works on lacquer, I can go a head and do the white painting now. If not, I'll have to wait and find what type of paint the maroon will be. It sounds like from what Ray and Carl have indicated, I should be OK putting down something like Tamiya's white (which is a lacquer from my understanding?) spay paint now. Am I making myself clear? And am I understand things right here? Scott Edited July 9, 2014 by unclescott58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 I don't know Scott, you'll have to wait for more expert minds thatn mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 At the MCCM (Model Car Club of Minnesota) meeting last night I brought this up. I was assured, that put enamel over lacquer is OK. The cemicals in wet lacquer will attack enamel. Enamel will not do the same to lacquer as long as the lacquer is thoroughly die. We got one guy in particular who does the greatest paint jobs you've ever seen. Kirby Hughes. His stuff appears in different model magazines from time to time. Or go on line, and look his models up. The guy's work is fantastic. And he's humble and helpful besides. If Kirby tells you something about model building, especially about paint, you can take it to the bank. And he agree with the other guys about putting enamel over dry lacquer. It is OK. So I'm going for it on my Highway Patrol builds. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clovis Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thank you for asking this question. I considered using the Tamiya white primer with Model Master enamels as a top coat ...until I saw the price of Tamiya primer. My goodness, Tamiya must be putting real gold in that primer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrass Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Enamel can be placed over Lacquer and should not be a problem as the solvents in the Enamel are not as hot as in Lacquer. I always have a question mark in my mind on the so called Lacquers in rattle cans even the ones I use and recommend. Some smell like true Lacquers and others don't, who knows what they put in those cans, when you look at the ingredients they are all over the board. Can Lacquer be placed over Enamel ? yes and no! You have to put on very dry coats and not let the hotter solvents in the Lacquer attack the Enamel, once you get a significant number of dry coats you can gradually make them wetter as the solvents should flash before they reach the enamel, this can be a very slippery slope, I don't recommend it and hold my breath, cross my fingers, knock on wood each time I have done it. I have not done this on models, but to me the principals are the same. I hope this helps! jwrass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clovis Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks, jwrass. I used some Testors Glosscote out of a vintage bottle that dates to the mid-eighties over Testors Model Master, and it looked awesome. I did happen to use a dab of the Glosscoate lacquer on some Tamiya acrylic, and it melted the paint right off the model! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Good info here, thanks everyone! I should be putting the primer coat on my '53 Studie' today, and then the top coat if the weather holds out. Jeff, Tamiya primer is expensive no doubt, but , it is very forgiving and goes on well, in fact it's hard to mess up putting it on. Oh, and it dries 'really' quick too. Scott, hope the painting goes well, keep us posted. thanks again for all the input. Edited July 10, 2014 by Speedfreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 A long-standing, good and valid formula here: You CAN paint enamels over dried lacquers (even if the lacquer still smells of lacquer thinner) as enamel paints use solvents which are "non-penetrating", that is they don't penetrate into styrene plastics, nor will they penetrate (dissolve or swell up) a coat of lacquer. A simple set of phrases will help: Enamel over plastic (of course) or enamel. Lacquer over lacquer, but NEVER lacquer over enamel. Water-borne enamels over both oil based enamels or over lacquer, but NOT the reverse. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbwelda Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 the thing is, these days, with the paint formulations that are used, its not like a "lacquer" is really what a lacquer was say back in the sixties. seems like pretty much all paint formulations are either a hybrid formula, or heavy on the acrylic side. I am not an expert on this but I have noticed numerous times being able to shoot for instance Tamiya "lacquer" over some model master supposed "enamel" with no harmful effects at all. I was cautious though and laid on light coats, but it seems ive done this more than once and it worked out. also have sprayed testors lacquer over model master undercoat color, which was enamel and same thing, no problems. maybe its just a fluke or maybe living in dry California has something to do with it, but I think paint is so compromised these days that its not really "lacquer" and "enamel" anymore. jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clovis Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Lacquer over lacquer, but NEVER lacquer over enamel. Art Okay, I have to admit that I am confused. I used both Testors Dull coat lacquer in a spray can and Testors Glosscote lacquer in a 80's era vintage bottle in a recent build over Testors Model Master enamels, and it worked fine. The Glosscote did 'melt' the Tamiya acrylics that I had applied, and caused them to run. Are the clear coat lacquer finishes different than lacquer paint????? Thoughts??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrass Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I guess I would have to say NEVER say NEVER as it is a long time! It can be done see my post!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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