AMT Parts Pack prices

[jbwelda]

>And if we don't respond by buying them, well there won't be any more products like this in the future!

I'm sorry, but, give me a break.

jb

[Tom Geiger]

parts packs like these have to be priced appropriately. and one unfortunate side effect of this mispricing might be the "industry" thinking parts packs aren't saleable to the model buying public,

Actually the cost of a kit or a parts pack are essentially the same. And that's been forever. I remember Bob Paeth telling me the story behind the Surfite kit. Revell felt that when consumers opened the box and saw that little bit of parts in there, they wouldn't see value. The answer wasn't putting in a smaller box since the industry was standardized to the typical kit box. Everything from the box folding equipment, to the cases the kits ship in benefited from that standardization. So they decided they needed to better fill that box, and that's how the Tiki Hut came about. He remarked that the cost wasn't in the amount of plastic in the box, but in the supply chain of every other thing and step to providing that product to the store shelf and then to your work bench.

Several years ago I needed a small plastic clip that held a roof part in place on my 1991 Geo Tracker. I went to my local Chevy parts counter and was amazed that the clip was something like $20. The parts manager explained that it was a $1 part, but the cost of handling it, inventorying it and getting it into my hand cost the other $19.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[jbwelda]

yes so you are basically agreeing with me: it costs pretty much zero to increase the quantity inside a package from X to 2 or 3X. So they need to do it if they want to sell their stuff. its not really the consumers fault or burden that the cost of moving their dinosaur is so high a couple of parts in a package cost the same as a whole kit in a package. they have to make it cost effective and attractive to the consumer to sell.

in the example I always like to think of, if only Revell would release the parts pack motorcycles, putting them all together in one box and selling for average kit price was probably a way better idea than trying to sell them one by one, like the originals were, in individual packages for 2/3 the price of a kit. gonna sell a whole lot more the former way than the latter.

just sayin'

jb

[High octane]

The way of getting around the high price of the "parts packs" is not to buy them and do without. I recently ordered a pair of front tires from a resin company for an upcoming project, and they were $6.00 + shipping and I need them.

[om617]

Not sure if they are pricy, because i still havent seen any competition who makes tires as nice as the AMT tire pack.

As for the expensive "buy it now" vintage parts,you can get lucky and win the part dirt cheap on auction.

[turbo nova]

You have no point. There is no situation with a $2 cost and a $400 price. Fantasy. I had said:

"and have priced the product to their best estimate... that rather fragile balance of the price the market will bear VS the cost of providing this product."

I do have a point, cost does not reflect price. My comment was not directly based at your statement but I could see how you connect the two. I am also not stating that the model co's are alone in setting the price as the retailer and distributor add inflation as well.

My example was inflated to provide an extreme example but it was done so to emphasize the fact that the two numbers are unrelated.

There are in fact many specialty electronics with profit margins that lopsided.

[Krazy Rick]

I love these threads where people arbitrarily access value without any concrete information. The price of any product is based on the cost of producing the product, packaging, labor to package, shipping cases, shipping (at least 3 different trips!) and all the handling through the wholesalers (labor, facility and profit) who eventually get that product onto the shelf of your local hobby shop. Add in royalties to the tire manufacturers. I'd suspect that the cost of everything I've listed beyond the cost of producing the tire, is much more than the cost of that tire! It's the same principle that the can cost more than the Coke inside it. And there's a big difference in the cost of throwing these tires in a kit, and offering them as a separate product.

The guys at Round 2 are pretty savvy marketing guys. They assessed market need for this type of product, estimated the quantity the market can absorb based on the sales record of their other products, and brought the idea to reality. They no doubt know to the fraction of a cent what each and every cost associated with this product is, and have priced the product to their best estimate... that rather fragile balance of the price the market will bear VS the cost of providing this product. They haven't over priced these because they think we're all idiots. They sincerely want to provide cool product to our market. And most important, they have invested their money in the belief that they can sell this product. The price represents the real costs of getting that product from rubber pellets in China to your work bench. Certainly they cost more than a dollar a set. Nothing cost a dollar today.

The sad part is that a big part of their decision to offer these wheel sets is that we, as a consumer group, liked them in the kits and campaigned to get them separate! And if we don't respond by buying them, well there won't be any more products like this in the future!

Funny, I thought the whole idea of sending all the manufacturing to China, was in order to produce products for less than they were being done in the USA .... something sure seems slightly odd about this arrangment. When can we expect the savings to be passed on to us ?

[Krazy Rick]

Aren't they vinyl?

[southpier]

I miss Bob Paeth. he'd always go out of his way to add a little hobby history to his replies; great resource. and although I never met him, he seemed like a great guy, too.

[chunkypeanutbutter]

I guess I'll chip in. Say something if I'm wrong, because I probably am

The company buys pellets of rubber, vinyl, dead birds, whatever, to make their tires with. Buying a small amount of said material would cost more than buying a large amount in unit prices, because many distributors cut the price a little on a bulk order because...

A ) they can afford to: they have a lot of product.

B ) it keeps customers coming back: "I got a great deal on these [rubber pellets, vinyl pellets, dead birds]!"

Now, each person is happy. The buyer has his great deal on product and the distributor got a new customer.

Now the customer (AMT, this is) makes their pellets into tires.

On these tires, they silkscreen an image, say Blue Streak Goodyear stuff.

They must pay Goodyear a little chunk of the beast so they don't get sued.

But, you still must figure in cost of production.

The machine they use to make tires gets a little worn out for every tire they make, and it would be safe to say that some accountant has figured out exactly how much money they're losing in wear on each machine for each item that passes through it.

So, our happy little tires still have a ways to go.

The factory workers must be paid, for which they'll sort out the tires that are good, and the bad as well: there's some more money gone, but in all hope, they can reuse these by melting them down to make better ones, or sell them as factory seconds.

The boxes have been prepared. The boxes have been paid for. Into the box with the tires, and into a bigger box with more packs of them!

Then, they presumably will be loaded onto a pallet. The pallet is then loaded onto a truck. Remember, the truck is slightly worn every time it is used, just like the machine used to make the tires, and the forklift to move the pallets with.

Along the roads goes the truck, trundling to the distribution center.

Here it is offloaded, then processed again for damage. Pay those workers, there, too!

From here, MORE trucks will take them to the places they're supposed to go. By this time, each package will have been priced at the factory. However, they aren't the only ones looking to get money out of the deal. The person who gets them from the distributing center also wants more than what he bought them for, so he'll mark it up from the MSRP.

Now the saga of the little Blue Streaks is over, until you, the consumer, purchase them.

Raw materials worth very little have had their price inflated many times due to effects on machinery, workers needing to be paid, licensing, shipping insurance (which I had forgotten about), and mark-up so someone can recoup what they've lost in the process.

Yes?

Edited December 18, 2014 by chunkypeanutbutter

[High octane]

Well then, just HOW is it cheaper to produce in China and ship it here? We're paying a premium price for those tires, or whatever aren't we?

[chepp]

Since the cost of materials and molding apparently is a tiny part of the equation, perhaps a solution would be for the manufacturer to sell a typical model kit box filled with as many tires as could fit. It could be priced the same as a typical model kit.

[Greg Myers]

With what everyone has said, makes sense.

[chunkypeanutbutter]

Well then, just HOW is it cheaper to produce in China and ship it here? We're paying a premium price for those tires, or whatever aren't we?

Labor is cheaper over there, and less people to argue about it.... Less regulation on factory conditions.

[Casey]

Solution: Buy AMT '40 Willys Coupe/Pickup kit, remove wheels and tires, part out remainder of kit on eBay and end up with the wheels and tires for nothing.

[slusher]

I respect everyone's decision if they want to buy them or not. I am very glad that they are being offered again and have bought 4 sets at HL and one from ebay. Amt has to make money or we will lose a great model company. I live on a fixed income and buying things can be tuff.

[Ben]

I could see some peoples points here but I am talking about wheels and tires that are already being produced, the licensing has already been taken care of in order to put them in the gasser kit. All they are doing is putting them into their own little box. Again, ?i can see a few dollars on each set for packaging and labor but I still think the price is high for regular kit wheels and tires! You can get high end aftermarket wheels and tires for the same price!

[Krazy Rick]

I could see some peoples points here but I am talking about wheels and tires that are already being produced, the licensing has already been taken care of in order to put them in the gasser kit. All they are doing is putting them into their own little box. Again, ?i can see a few dollars on each set for packaging and labor but I still think the price is high for regular kit wheels and tires! You can get high end aftermarket wheels and tires for the same price!

Your 100% right Ben, let's be honest, it, it is pure greed, plain & simple.......if it costs less to produce in China, ( which it does, in fact ; then why isn't the saving being passed onto us, the consumer? the reason....because there are guys willing to be victims to this ridiculous price gouging, I for one refuse to support having my pockets picked. There are those that will say, at least the company is offering the stuff, & we should be grateful .... uh.....good luck with that. There is only so much I am willing to pay for tires; $10; $12 TOPS. .... even if they put them in a "Special Edition", "Limited Number" tins; with a poster - I'll pass .... .

[1930fordpickup]

I love the parts packs.

One small slim box for wheels or another kit to take up space.

[Tom Geiger]

Your 100% right Ben, let's be honest, it, it is pure greed, plain & simple.......if it costs less to produce in China, ( which it does, in fact ; then why isn't the saving being passed onto us, the consumer? the reason....because there are guys willing to be victims to this ridiculous price gouging, I for one refuse to support having my pockets picked. There are those that will say, at least the company is offering the stuff, & we should be grateful ...

Rick you are indeed Krazy. You provide no facts, only your own angry opinion that things are too expensive. But you cannot provide any numbers or evidence to support your position.

You can rant all you want that 'big mean corporations' are picking your pocket, it's obvious that you don't know who you are talking about. There are those of us in the hobby who have met and know the people behind Revell, Round 2 and Moebius. All of them are real model guys who are as excited about the hobby as we are. No corporate ghouls. Knowing the integrity of those involved, as well as their intentions to provide us with new products, I trust their judgement and support them.

And yes, I stand behind my statement that if we don't buy the product, there won't be more in the future. If a company cannot make a profit on a product, it's only common sense that they won't repeat the mistake. Where you guys see buying the product at closeout in the clearance bin as a win for you, you don't understand that it's a major FAIL for the hobby. It means that somewhere in the supply chain, somebody lost their shirt on the product. And business can't afford to repeat that.

Personally I wouldn't be in the business of providing product to this market. Overall, we are known as cheap. It seems everyone is on the band wagon demanding better, more detailed kits and accessories, but when the manufacturers listen to us, we then retract back to "oh, I didn't mean I'd spend money on it." Quite frankly if I was Round 2, I'd be doing detail kits for military modelers. They don't seem to have a problem paying for what they want.

And production costs are less expensive in China. Some of that has resulted in better product. Cleaner castings, better chrome, small items individually taped for protection... all this involves labor that wasn't being done in the US. We seem to forget that we'd get parts slammed in a box with scratched glass and flaky chrome. And since it's been maybe 15-20 years since we sent production off shore, who is to say what kits would cost if we had continued to make them here? Probably a lot more than we are paying now.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[Ramcharger]

Your 100% right Ben, let's be honest, it, it is pure greed, plain & simple.......if it costs less to produce in China, ( which it does, in fact ; then why isn't the saving being passed onto us, the consumer? the reason....because there are guys willing to be victims to this ridiculous price gouging, I for one refuse to support having my pockets picked. There are those that will say, at least the company is offering the stuff, & we should be grateful .... uh.....good luck with that. There is only so much I am willing to pay for tires; $10; $12 TOPS. .... even if they put them in a "Special Edition", "Limited Number" tins; with a poster - I'll pass .... .

I hear knitting is cheap, maybe you could take up that as a hobby then you wouldn't have to worry about it. I'm sure those greedy model company execs won't even notice when they ride from their gated communities at the beach in their chauffeur driven limos on your dime to their skyscraper corporate headquarters.

[Phirewriter]

Tom Geiger's point is spot on about handling costs. I've had this same discussion with scale slot car manufactures years ago (Scalextric, Carrera,etc...) They have the same issues as far as making certain parts available, such as body in white kits or simple replacement parts. There is a lot of cost in picking out parts, altering production processes and other concerns that make some items more or prohibitively costly to offer. The same is true for the kit industry (unfortunately)
A manufacturer has to recoup their cost plus make a profit to remain viable, not being greedy. Remember also, after the parts or kit is made and packed it is shipped to a distributor who take their cut and then it's off to the retailer. At that point, however much (or little) the retailer (brick and mortar or e-tailer) are willing to make on that item determines the final price.

[southpier]

I wish kits were offered in "no-chrome" versions. a lot of folks strip & either spray or paint to get a distinct result. kit chrome sort of looks like, well, plastic.

[ratdoggy]

You have no point. There is no situation with a $2 cost and a $400 price. Fantasy. I had said:

"and have priced the product to their best estimate... that rather fragile balance of the price the market will bear VS the cost of providing this product."

He does have a point. I'm sure a $400 cocktail dress (with a designer tag) made in Honduras or China probably is close to that example.

If it costs them 49¢ to make and they can sell them at $15.99 they will. The original point was a kit sells for not much more than the parts pack does. The parts pack was just wheels and tires, without the rest of the kit.

[Phirewriter]

What's not much more? Tower hobbies has the Willys kit list price @ $27.99. If you go by that and the $15.99 (full list) for the wheels that's still a $12.00 difference. How is that close? Even at their selling/sale price there is a $9.00 difference. I can assure you that there is more that a mere $.50 cost in the kit or the parts. Just licensing alone will wipe out most of if not all that amount alone. Take a look an the bottom or side of your latest purchase to see all the companies that have their hand out to be fed that money.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Phirewriter