afx Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) If I am at a car show or watching an auction on TV and I see a vintage car with a modern engine my reaction is always disappointment. I get why it is done. Modern engines and suspension outperform period parts often for fractions of restoring or purchasing original parts. But to me it just runs counter to the purpose of restoring the car. When I look under the hood of ‘66 Mustang I want to see a 289 HiPo not a 5.0 crate motor. When I look under a ’32 Ford, I want to see buggy springs not coil overs. And I want the same thing from the kits I buy, I want period parts. They don’t all have to be stock parts but I want them to be of the time period. Maybe it’s my age bias (I'm AARP eligible). What is your opinion? Edited February 16, 2015 by afx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 To me it really depends on the particular car, but I think there are some that demand period parts...or they just miss the mark entirely. We had a Falcon Futura convertible in the shop a while back, and I was lovin' it until I popped the hood and saw a crate 5.0 electronic fuel-injection motor...plus a less-than-expertly installed square-tube front subframe with Mustang II front suspension. Yuck. A 289 hi-po would have been so much cooler to me...and it's basically the same engine anyway. And you CAN make the old Falcon front suspension handle perfectly well (maybe not road-race worthy, but just fine for sunny-day-cruising to car shows), so why hack all the originality out when it's unnecessary? On the other hand, I quite like full-on pro-touring cars that have all state-of-the-art guts and underpinnings, but look like beautifully restored period pieces...again, depending on the car and the builder's taste. Then there are the cars that REALLY need to keep the old (or old-style) stuff. The built Merc flathead is part of what makes this car very special. And this one wouldn't get a second look from me if it had another 9" or a Dana...but even with coilovers, that quick-change belongs there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramfins59 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I guess it depends on individual preference. Obviously the modern upgrades done on vintage cars are to improve comfort, handling performance, reliability and safety. I've been an AARP member for many years so I get your point. I wouldn't mind seeing kits of vintage cars (30's through 60's) come with both stock and modern engine and suspension parts, to give builders the choice but I don't think that will ever happen due to tooling costs. Upgraded versions of vintage car kits are a good idea and have been done on '32 & '37 Ford kits and a few others. In the meantime we'll just have to continue doing our own scale engine and suspension modifications...... it's a lot easier and cheaper to do it all with plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I wouldn't mind seeing kits of vintage cars (30's through 60's) come with both stock and modern engine and suspension parts, to give builders the choice but I don't think that will ever happen due to tooling costs. When I was a wee lad, I kinda took it for granted that kits would come with swappable engines as well as the stock bits. AMT's original '32 Ford roadster B-model had the stock 4-banger as well as a big ol' Hemi. The AMT '29 Ford spinoff from the Ala Kart double kit had a complete extra airbagged chassis and a Dodge Red Ram Hemi too. AMT's T bucket and tall (or chopped) closed cars had entire optional later-model engines and complete zeed frames and running gear as well. Guess I got spoiled, and want a lot of optional stuff in one box...which is why I'm really looking forward to the New Revell '29 Ford. You're probably right about the zero possibility of ever seeing tubular independent coilover front suspension and a Jag-derived rear-end under something like Revell's '50 Olds...in the box, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Haigwood Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I build very few car in stock form. Mostly something I want to replicate from my past. I focus mostly on "period correct" mainly in the 60's. What bothers me is to see a Chevy motor in a Ford. I can tolerate a Hemi but not by much. I am trying to be more exceptive and of the two Deuces I am currently working on, one has a Hemi and one has a SMB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I have always asked if you think a Chevy is so great why are you to embarrassed to drive one? Then I get the normal ( what does than mean) look and I just chuckle. It is yours put in what you want. I may not agree but it is not mine. I want the right period parts also but we get what we get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_G Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 What bothers me is to see a Chevy motor in a Ford. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ace what year was the Falcon? I ask because my brother has a 61 Falcon that has been sitting in my dads barn from 74 till now. It has a Cleveland sitting inside the engine bay as any 15 year old would do. When you start to call guys that do suspensions they tell you nothing bolton will work. 60-62 are the odd cars left out Metal to thin car is too narrow Blah, Blah, Blah same old story , All it takes is money and he does not have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Some cars are just too far gone or incomplete to do a full restoration on. No interior, no engine etc. So a custom or a resto-mod is a no brainer. Also a lot of people will drive incredible distances for cars shows, tours and the like. I don't know about you but I'd rather have modern equipment under the hood for a long trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I don't know about you but I'd rather have modern equipment under the hood for a long trip. Well, yes and no. People tend to forget that cars that are old-timey now were once brandy-damm-new, and they got driven on long trips all the time. A correctly restored old vehicle is actually quite reliable and comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajaJoe Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 My dad hates chevy's in a ford. The only model I have built with a ford engine in mind is the 36 ford I am doing now and its for him. I think like this in models and in 1:1 the car is how I will build it and I'm most likeley gonna have to fix the thing so I might as well go for the easiest (to find) and cheapest (to fix). I can get the guys who are for all originality, I honestly respect that, but my 1:1 1949 International Harvester pickup truck will have a s10 frame and chevy drivetrain simply built, cheap, and i wont have to drop it super low now either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Crate motors have no identity, no soul. There's a reason we remember engines like 440 six packs, 327s, flatheads and HiPos. They are identifiable in how the engine looks like and the car it belongs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 For me, it comes down to definition. For a true restoration, I think by default it needs to be all original as configured by the factory. For a modified old design, it's up to the builder as to how mild or wild he wants to modify it. For me, a '70 Challenger with huge chrome Donk wheels, is not a restoration, but a mutilation. Again, it comes down to definitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublin boy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I often think about this JC. I'd still like, say, a 63 Corvette or a Boss 302, (insert your own car here..) with modern running gear as a car you could use day to day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Haigwood Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 It also depends on the rarity of the car. My 66 Barracuda is a V8, auto on the floor w/console and buckets. Nice but not the most desirable car. I have made it a 60's period car, something a high school kid would have. I still can be changed back if someone wanted to do a resto on it. But since it's not an "S" code car it's not worth it go original . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 In my mind once you start updating everything you start crossing over into replica build territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 It also depends on the rarity of the car. My 66 Barracuda is a V8, auto on the floor w/console and buckets. Nice but not the most desirable car. I have made it a 60's period car, something a high school kid would have. I still can be changed back if someone wanted to do a resto on it. But since it's not an "S" code car it's not worth it go original . I have no issue with this type of restoration Jon, but if you put say a modern Hemi in there then you've lost me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Well, yes and no. People tend to forget that cars that are old-timey now were once brandy-damm-new, and they got driven on long trips all the time. A correctly restored old vehicle is actually quite reliable and comfortable. If that were true then we'd still be using that technology. Instead we have independent suspension, rack & pinion steering, AC, heat, radio, defrosters etc. Don't get me wrong I love those old rods you posted as much as the next guy. There is something truly special (and a little bit magical) about a period correct auto. However, if I were to acquire a basket case first gen. Charger (my favorite) I would very likely put in a modern 6.1L, steering, suspension, AC, and sound system. And I'd drive it every single day with no fear of killing its value. It would look very stock from the outside, but it would not be. I would not however, alter a perfectly good (running/driving) period piece regardless of engine package. I'd repair what needs repairing, and that would be it. I would drive it less often maybe, but enjoy it just as much. I believe resto-mods and other custom pieces have an important place in the automotive world. Whatever it takes to keep them on the road. Edited February 17, 2015 by Jantrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Kron Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Given my recent postings on the Revell '29 A Roadster pre-announcement thread, I find it odd to perhaps be taking a different tack on the OP's excellent question. My feeling is that period perfect recreation, either in 1:1 or in scale, is a simple solution to a thorny problem. What exactly is a modern hot rod? For me time seems to have stood still. Hi-Tech, a noble effort to take hot rodding into the final years of the 20th century, is played-out and, with Billet, became its own caricature. Pro-Mod offers another outlet since it is based on a later generation of cars, but it has grown overly elaborate and expensive in its own way. The Traditional Rod movement once beckoned and found its voice in the pages of The Rodder's Journal and on-line with the H.A,M.B. But today it has become the domain of the rich man's plaything. And much like Billet came to distort the vision of High-Tech, Traditional found its own unruly cousin in the Rat Rod movement. I feel like we are at some sort of stylistic juncture that requires a new response. While I enjoy creating models of hot rods which evoke the "look and feel" of the 1940's through the 1960's, I sometimes long for the skills and abilities that would allow me to tackle something truly modern, perhaps even post-contemporary. I've always felt that auto modeling was unique in the scale modeling world, at least until the emergence of Fantasy modeling, in that it has always had a tradition of making models of cars that have never existed, even in styles that have never existed in 1:1. I wish I didn't have such an affinity to these old Traditional Hot Rods, an affinity which has created a backlog of unrealized projects which demand to be built. It's time I created something new, post-contemporary and forward looking. If I ever do it, it won't be from a kit that one of the model companies has given me, although I'm sure I'll steal liberally from the wonderful parts they will have given me. That's where the skills in scratch-building and kit-bashing will have a large part to play. But for some reason I haven't seen much in this vein in the 1:1 world. Perhaps some of you could show us some examples... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 What exactly is a modern hot rod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 hot rod noun 1. a motor vehicle that has been specially modified to give it extra power and speed. verb 1. drive a hot rod. 2. modify (a vehicle or other device) to make it faster or more powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Kron Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Greg, I have to agree with you that the tuner/import has always held promise as the true contemporary hot rod, but again it's an established style that has largely stopped evolving, and of course ignores the whole continuity of the other, older, "hot rod" tradition. Are we at a dead end in that and should we look to the tuner/import area for guidance? Unfortunately this movement, too, is due for a refresh or reset. Edited February 16, 2015 by Bernard Kron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-409 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Some of you like them, some of you like them in some cases but not always. I don't want to sound rude and I want to say that I appreciate the work that has been put into them, but personally, I hate Resto Mods and Modern Hot Rods. They just look horrible and as I like old cars, why would I install parts from new cars in them? Well built car with old parts and technology is good to drive and they are quite reliable if built well. Plus, driving long trips in an old car is also a neat experience - it is not interesting if you're driving a 2014 Honda or something like that. It is not interesting either if the car you're driving has a modern engine and other technology as well. I just wish people would forget this style completely. It makes me feel bad when I see a Resto Mod or whatever Pro Touring cars they are called. I might be strange, because most people of my age like those modern things, but this is the way I am. Edited February 16, 2015 by W-409 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Kron Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Oh Nico, your such an old traditionalist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 My first car was a 1931 Model A Ford. So put me down for one of these. Yeah, I know, it's a Deuce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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