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Monogram Classics


imatt88

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The colour is also wrong, and is often done wrong in restorations. Black was only used on show cars. Production cars had their engines painted Resedagrün RAL 6011.

Here is an overview of the RAL colours:

https://www.ral-farb...sic-farben.html

Looks like that could be simulated with olive green mixed with white and maybe a little gray or light blue.

Any other ideas for color-matching?

Charlie Larkin

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Looks like that could be simulated with olive green mixed with white and maybe a little gray or light blue.

Any other ideas for color-matching?

Charlie Larkin

Most paint shops should be able to mix you a tin of RAL 6011. Here it is available ready-made off the shelf from most DIYs.

Edited by Junkman
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Meanwhile, since we're on this subject, I have often suggested Pocher manuals, which can be downloaded free, as an excellent reference for detailing smaller scale versions like the Monogram and other classics. But I have recently discovered some evidence of Pocher scamming their customers. As we've seen above, there are significant differences between the engine layout of the Mercedes 500K and the 540K. Yet it seems that Pocher did not change the engines between the two models. All Pocher Mercedes models have a 500K engine. This would have been easier to discover if these kits had been produced in the era of the Internet.

Below, to the left, the Pocher 540K, Model K85.

To the right, the Pocher 500K, Model K74.

Pocherenginessidebyside.png

Edited by sjordan2
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Meanwhile, since we're on this subject, I have often suggested Pocher manuals, which can be downloaded free, as an excellent reference for detailing smaller scale versions like the Monogram and other classics. But I have recently discovered some evidence of Pocher scamming their customers. As we've seen above, there are significant differences between the engine layout of the Mercedes 500K and the 540K. Yet it seems that Pocher did not change the engines between the two models. All Pocher Mercedes models have a 500K engine. This would have been easier to discover if these kits had been produced in the era of the Internet

All the Pocher Mercedes models have the same identical chassis and engine, only the bodywork and interiors are different.

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Hey, Christian, I have tons of material on these cars but I've never seen one of those engines with green paint. Do you have a shot to look at?

They are extremely hard to come by. Original photos are black and white and by now most if not almost all remaining engines have been painted black. It's just nicer at the concourse, since Resedagrün is not exactly an attractive colour. But luckily, I found a photo of an unrestored engine:

NEW_048.jpg

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Interesting how some kit makers take shortcuts and others don't. For example, my Jo-Han Mercedes 500K Special Coupe came with the same chrome and clear sprues as their 500K Special Roadster, with A pillar spotlights and bumper-mounted fog lights, which aren't present on the 1:1 coupe.

On the other hand, I don't know if Monogram ever made a British-based Phantom II Rolls with right-hand drive, but they got it right on the left-hand drive American-made Henley Roadster, which is nearly a mirror image of the engine and chassis layout of the right-hand drive British version.

PIILHD-RHDcompariosn.jpg

Edited by sjordan2
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On the other hand, I don't know if Monogram ever made a British-based Phantom II Rolls with right-hand drive, but they got it right on the left-hand drive American-made Henley Roadster, which is nearly a mirror image of the engine and chassis layout of the right-hand drive British version.

Both Rolls Royces by Monogram were of American prototypes.

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They are extremely hard to come by. Original photos are black and white and by now most if not almost all remaining engines have been painted black. It's just nicer at the concourse, since Resedagrün is not exactly an attractive colour. But luckily, I found a photo of an unrestored engine:

NEW_048.jpg

Thanks. Now I know why everybody repainted the cylinder heads black, though I've seen some in a gunmetal grey.

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Thanks. Now I know why everybody repainted the cylinder heads black, though I've seen some in a gunmetal grey.

Yes. It is common practice nowadays to paint the block black and leave the cylinder head unpainted. Undoubtedly the inspiration comes from the Rolls Royce engines and the Mercedes engines used for exhibition purposes.

However, Resedagrün is a commonly used colour for all types of machinery in Germany. It used to be DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm). Ship Diesels, Kraftwerk turbines, lathes, milling machines, hydraulic presses, all were, and often still are, painted this colour.

Here is a picture of an M.A.N. Ship Diesel which gives a good impression of what the colour really looks like:

man_diesel.jpg

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The picture looks a bit too green, but I assume it's pretty much the same as an old drill press. Similar to older American cars. Aargghh. It's stuff like this that drives me crazy. The fact is, no matter how much research you do on these classics for your kit builds, there's no telling how currently existing 1:1 cars appeared in their original form and how much modification has been done in restorations over the years. For example, the Pope Atlantic (Ralph Lauren's black Bugatti) has been several colors over the years, from black to red to blue pearl and back to black. In the case of old Mercedes, the Mercedes Classic Center has responded to me that the Allied bombing destroyed most of their original records, so they don't have much reference on prewar Mercedes.

Edited by sjordan2
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Sorry I'm not a bit better prepared to quote the Tamiya color numbers, but I'm going to try to replicate the RAL 6011 with a RAF or Japanese aircraft underside light green/blue color, mixed with a bit of their regular green. I've seen enough machinery painted in a similar color, that I think I can match it fairly well. If I get the right "feel" to it, I'll post my results and formula.

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Well, I just got my 1/24 Monogram 540K Spezial Coupe today, and it's certainly going to present some challenges. Like the 1/25 Jo-Han 500K coupe, they've just added a couple of parts to turn their cabrio/roadster into a coupe. Unlike, the Jo-Han 500K, it's very low on parts count (not necessarily a bad thing. The Jo-Han kit has so many teeny parts that it looks almost unbuildable).

• Engine detail is mostly molded onto the block

• Interior detail is weak and not authentic

• The fixed roof is a separate part that goes onto the cabrio body, requiring putty work to blend top and body together. However, its dimensions are far more accurate than the box photo on the far right would indicate.

• On the plus side, making this kit more accurate mostly involves adding stuff and not starting over on anything.

Most irritating, its treatment of the trunk-mounted spare tire is for the long-tail 540K cabrio and not for the coupe. Not to worry if you have a copy of the Italeri "Star of India" Rolls Phantom II Torpedo, which can donate its fender-mounted spare tire covers for the trunk, plus other cool details like teeny chrome window cranks and door handles.

I think I'll go for the dark blue version. One more note: The hubcap thingies that go on the rear fender skirts are simply the rear knock-off hubs of the cabrio wheels, still with the "ears" that need to be removed.

QUESTION: Does someone make a 1/24 540K with better engine detail?

540Kboxdetail.png

540Krearcomparison.png

Edited by sjordan2
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Skip,

I did the Blue coupe and you are in for it!! The rear deck and the area between the rear fender and the roof all have to be re-shaped. I used the spare cover and hood sides from a Heller 540K. Also the tops of the doors have to be re-done.

Is that enough yet??

The skirting on all four fenders is deeper on the Coupe than on the Monogram roadster. It needs to be extended all the way around.

I did make all of the changes plus added new chrome strips. I enjoyed it but do have to say that it is the most work I have ever done on a model and no one notices! I have to say that that kit is one of Monogram's most inaccurate.

415002-vi.jpg415001-vi.jpg

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Skip,

I did the Blue coupe and you are in for it!! The rear deck and the area between the rear fender and the roof all have to be re-shaped. I used the spare cover and hood sides from a Heller 540K. Also the tops of the doors have to be re-done.

Is that enough yet??

The skirting on all four fenders is deeper on the Coupe than on the Monogram roadster. It needs to be extended all the way around.

I did make all of the changes plus added new chrome strips. I enjoyed it but do have to say that it is the most work I have ever done on a model and no one notices! I have to say that that kit is one of Monogram's most inaccurate.

415002-vi.jpg415001-vi.jpg

Considering that Monogram pretty much did a roof to slap on the Cabriolet, and did that nearly what, 10 years after the Cabriolet, I am not at all surprised.

Art

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Beautiful work!

Skip, I just picked up the Monogram Cabriolet myself. I have no intentions of trying to reshape anything. I'm just going to build right out of the box :D BTW, what color is that blue? It almost looks like a Deep Purple, or something. SWEET!

Art,

Great work. I like it!! Love the color

Hey guys, while we are on the subject...does anyone make replacement and/or conversion parts for any of these kit?

I have couple of builtups that are in need of a few new parts :wacko:

Too bad we couldn't do a group build or something...there seems to be some interest in the old classics

Cheers, Ian

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Grrr. On the Jo-Han 1/25 Mercedes 500K coupe, with over 150 parts, I noticed it's missing one part: a steering spindle, which is pretty critical. So I'll have to get my hands on a back-up parts kit. Does anyone know if the 1/25 Jo-han 500K Special Roadster has the same mechanicals as the coupe kit?

(Lesson learned: Always check out an eBay kit immediately when receiving it. I got a partial refund on this one because of the painted hood and fenders and a missing foglight lens, which doesn't go with this version of the car anyway, but I missed the steering spindle.)

Edited by sjordan2
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Grrr. On the Jo-Han 1/25 Mercedes 500K coupe, with over 150 parts, I noticed it's missing one part: a steering spindle, which is pretty critical. So I'll have to get my hands on a back-up parts kit. Does anyone know if the 1/25 Jo-han 500K Special Roadster has the same mechanicals as the coupe kit?

(Lesson learned: Always check out an eBay kit immediately when receiving it. I got a partial refund on this one because of the painted hood and fenders and a missing foglight lens, which doesn't go with this version of the car anyway, but I missed the steering spindle.)

Yes, the Jo-Han coupe and roadster are technically identical.

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Is anyone doing in progress pics of classic cars builds? I would, but I don't have a camera :lol:

I'm rebuilding a Monogram '34 Duesenberg, (the yellow one) It slow going becasue its a glue bomb.

I was hoping to find someone who has junkers for parts. Newt doesn't have anything, because I already checked..

EBay is one of the possiblilities, but even junk classics are rather pricey :(

Anyway,

Keep the info coming...... :)

Cheers, Ian

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Is anyone doing in progress pics of classic cars builds? I would, but I don't have a camera :lol:

I'm rebuilding a Monogram '34 Duesenberg, (the yellow one) It slow going becasue its a glue bomb.

I was hoping to find someone who has junkers for parts. Newt doesn't have anything, because I already checked..

EBay is one of the possiblilities, but even junk classics are rather pricey :(

Anyway,

Keep the info coming...... :)

Cheers, Ian

Is there any particular info you would like on any particular kit? I have massive information on 30s Mercedes and Rolls kits.

Edited by sjordan2
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Is anyone doing in progress pics of classic cars builds? I would, but I don't have a camera :lol: I'm rebuilding a Monogram '34 Duesenberg, (the yellow one) It slow going becasue its a glue bomb. I was hoping to find someone who has junkers for parts. Newt doesn't have anything, because I already checked.. EBay is one of the possiblilities, but even junk classics are rather pricey :( Anyway, Keep the info coming...... :) Cheers, Ian

Actually they vary, you find sellers who think they are "rare" with crazy prices, I've seen them buy it now for $100+, but there are many out there for far more realistic prices.

I picked up several last year (2x Packard Boattail, Cord, Rolls Royce Towncar and an AMT Chrysler Roadster) for $20-25 each including shipping.

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