Scale auto renaissance?

[Junkman]

These cars may seem interesting to you over in england, but here in the states they are seen as a serious low point in our automotive history. They were oversized, slow and boring. With so many iconic classics, muscle cars and sports cars not having a kit of them how can they justify kits of late 70's flotsam and jetsam.

Time to adjust the viewpoint? I can clearly remember the time when I was told just what you wrote when we wanted 59 Chevies and Cadillacs and finned Mopars. We brought real ones over in droves because they were seen as worthless junk and a serious low point in America's automotive history by Americans throughout the Eighties.

Which iconic American classics, muscle cars and sports cars from the Seventies onwards haven't been released as kits yet? Oh, true, Chrysler Cordobas and '77 Thunderbirds and Cougars.

[imatt88]

I like all the old box art! Reminds me of when I was a kid.

I'd like to see the '62- '64 Grand Prix reissued, and some of the late '60's MPC Pontiacs as well..

[Casey]

So us younger modelers get left out for the most part, I cant relate to the older cars that they are bringing out/ reissuing, so where does that leave us?. shouldn't they put some effort on my age range?, I know they are a few kits coming that are a little newer. But most of the kits for next are on cars that are what 40 to 50 years old.

I was thinking about the lack of models at mass merchandisers as mentioned above, and thought back to when I started buying and building models in 1980 at the age of eight. I bought 100% of my kits from a five and dime store and from K-Mart, because they had a good selection and I could ride my bike there. There were no hobby shops, no interwebs, and mail order was something I had yet to discover. I suspect many others in my age range also bought many kits from stores similar to K-Mart, so don't discount the mass merchandisers role in bringing models to the masses. Without them, I and others may have never discovered models.

I also agree that there should always be a mix of models which appeal to not only experienced, adult modelers, but also to younger, less experienced builders. That said, there will never be a perfect release lineup for any one person, so sometimes you have to go outside your comfort zone and build something different. Now, that might mean building a kit that's too advanced for your skills (such as when I attempted MPC's 1/20 McLaren at age eight) or delving into a kit you never would've considered buying, but trying new things and learning from your failures (yes, there will and should be failures along the way) is how you become a better model builder and how you expose yourself to new ideas and subjects.

[imatt88]

Casey,

Yeah, Thats how I fueled my modeling addiction also.

The local drugstore, 2 blocks from my house, sold models, there was a J. J. Newberrys and a F. W. Woolworth store about a 10 minute walk from where I lived...good stuff, great memories..

Alas, all the local stores are gone now, and I have to drive 100 miles to visit a real hobby shop

[Darin Bastedo]

Time to adjust the viewpoint? I can clearly remember the time when I was told just what you wrote when we wanted 59 Chevies and Cadillacs and finned Mopars. We brought real ones over in droves because they were seen as worthless junk and a serious low point in America's automotive history by Americans throughout the Eighties.

Which iconic American classics, muscle cars and sports cars from the Seventies onwards haven't been released as kits yet? Oh, true, Chrysler Cordobas and '77 Thunderbirds and Cougars.

I understand the desire for something different, trust me I do, but you have to understand the goal of the model manufacturers is it make money. Put yourself in the place of a Revell executive. In front of him he has a choice; 77 T-bird, or a modern kit of a 1965 GTO. The only kit on the market for either of these is a 1/32 lindberg T-bird, and the old MPC 65 GTO. Both are no where close to being state of the art kits. what do you choose. Well looking at past trends the GTO is sure to sell ten times what the T-bird will, so he chooses the GTO. It's Iconic. even the non-car guys recognise it.

There are cars I want that no major manufacturer will touch, such as; Tatra T-87, a Siata 208S, Chrysler Airflow, etc. But I understand why.

[Chuck Most]

Personally, if there were never another new kit introduced of a Formula 1 car, '57 Chevy, Corvette, or Ferrari, I couldn't care less. I know those are all hot sellers, but you won't find any on my workbench, unless they're being used as parts donors.

I would also like to see more modern cars- the thing is, which ones do you kit? Seems like 40 years ago, kitting a compact (Pinto, Vega, Gremlin, etc.) was fairly popular, but for some reason I can't see a kit of a modern-day Kia Rio or Chevy Cobalt selling nearly as well. The luxury and performance cars would be a safe bet- but all three of the American Ponycars are available in kit form (or will be once the Revell Camaro comes out) and just about every variaton of the Corvette has been kitted. And I'm only reffering to American manufacurers here to simplify things. There's a huge untapped market for CURRENT light truck kits that isn't being filled, and I'm personally not buying the 'not enough demand' thing. If there is demand for oddball stuff like a base model Chevy sedan with no backseat, there's a market for 1/2 ton pickups.

[Harry P.]

The model building demographic has shifted. Model cars used to be a kid's hobby, with a few adults thrown in the mix. Today it's the exact opposite; it's an adult hobby with a few kids thrown in the mix. The story of how and why that happened has been told here many times, so no need to rehash that.

But the point is, model kit manufacturers have realized that their target market is no longer kids with a few bucks of allowance money to spend on a model. Now their average customer is a 40+ year old guy, and the manufacturers obviously now have to aim their products to please a customer base that's very different from what it used to be.

Does that leave kids "out in the cold?" Well, to some extent, yes. Because if the kit manufacturers want to make a profit (and they DO), they have to meet the expectations and desires of the adult modeler. Does that mean there will never be another donk or tuner or some other "kid-specific" kit released? No... but the greater emphasis these days is on the "serious" adult modeler. The market has changed.

[Harry P.]

There's a huge untapped market for CURRENT light truck kits that isn't being filled, and I'm personally not buying the 'not enough demand' thing. If there is demand for oddball stuff like a base model Chevy sedan with no backseat, there's a market for 1/2 ton pickups.

So are you saying that the guys who get paid to do the research in order to make the decision of which kits to produce are somehow blind to this huge demand for 1/2 ton pickups? They just "don't get it?"

Or... another possibility here... their research and marketing tells them that the demand for a new kit of a 1/2 ton pickup isn't strong enough to justify the costs involved in producing one, and that's why they're not bringing out new 1/2 ton pickup kits.

Hmmmm.... I'd have to go with B.

[Chuck Most]

Sorry- EVERYBODY I know wants more light truck kits. That's 100% of whatever demographic I'm in. And judging from what I've read here and other forums, it isn't just a 'Central Michigan' thing.

As far as the model company's research teams not seeing the numbers- likely the cause of that is they're too busy thinking of ways to tart up their existing '57 Chevy,'32 Ford, '69 Nova and first-gen Camaro kits to see the forest past the trees.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Chuck Most

[bbowser]

Martinfan5 said younger modelers get left out, and he's right.

I can understand and sympathize, but what car out today would get kids juices flowing? I myself have no idea. Everything you see on the road today is a jellybean where you can't tell a Toyota from a Hyundai from a Nissan from a Honda. We older folks want and build what we lusted for as teens, what do teens today lust for? I see the entire auto industry going away in my children's and grandchildren's lifetimes as they all get around in transport 'pods' of some type that do all the work, you punch in your destination and sit back and play with your iphone until you get there.

Would anyone buy a kit of a Subaru or Kia?

Edited October 22, 2011 by bbowser

[Harry P.]

Sorry- EVERYBODY I know wants more light truck kits. That's 100% of whatever demographic I'm in. And judging from what I've read here and other forums, it isn't just a 'Central Michigan' thing.

As far as the model company's research teams not seeing the numbers- likely the cause of that is they're too busy thinking of ways to tart up their existing '57 Chevy,'32 Ford, '69 Nova and first-gen Camaro kits to see the forest past the trees.

Well, there are three possible explanations.

A, all of the brains running the model companies are totally clueless and are completely oblivious to this massive groundswell of thousands and thousands of model builders who are foaming at the mouth, fists full of $$$, demanding a new 1/2 ton pickup kit.

B, the kit manufacturers know about the huge pent-up demand for new pickup kits, they know a new pickup kit would sell like hotcakes, and they know they can make a profit by releasing such a kit... but they just won't do it.

C, they don't feel the demand is strong enough to make investing in such a kit profitable, therefore they aren't doing it.

Again... common sense tells me that answer C is probably the closest one to being correct.

[Aaronw]

So us younger modelers get left out for the most part, I cant relate to the older cars that they are bringing out/ reissuing, so where does that leave us?. shouldn't they put some effort on my age range?, I know they are a few kits coming that are a little newer. But most of the kits for next are on cars that are what 40 to 50 years old.

I would like to see them do more newer cars that are not aimed at the street racer's or the low rider crowd, but for all the kits that are being released next year, there are three that I would want to buy. So I guess if you are young and support this hobby you get left out inless you like building cars that were around before you were even thought of.

Don't get me wrong, I understand they have to make what the majority of the market is going to buy, but at the same time they need to keep in touch with ones that like newer cars , or will move on to the foreign kits manufactures that produce kits that we can relate too.

And I am not saying I have anything against the kits coming out , I just can not relate to most of the cars, so I am happy for the ones that are in the target demo, but its kind of cold out here.

I'm just curious to know what you would like to see that is not being addressed, because when I look at the hobby shops I see lots of new cars, "new" Fiat 500, Smartcar, "new" Mini, (did the Prius kit ever make it to market?) recent versions of Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, Charger, Challenger, Audi A8, Ferraris out the wing wang, Porsches, and a variety of sporty imports.

Not a lot of cars I could actually buy, but are you really looking for a kit of the Toyota Yaris? (and actually I bet Tamiya or Fujimi have one or are working on one, so I probably should have picked something domestic as an example).

[Aaronw]

Well, there are three possible explanations.

A, all of the brains running the model companies are totally clueless and are completely oblivious to this massive groundswell of thousands and thousands of model builders who are foaming at the mouth, fists full of $$$, demanding a new 1/2 ton pickup kit.

B, the kit manufacturers know about the huge pent-up demand for new pickup kits, they know a new pickup kit would sell like hotcakes, and they know they can make a profit by releasing such a kit... but they just won't do it.

C, they don't feel the demand is strong enough to make investing in such a kit profitable, therefore they aren't doing it.

Again... common sense tells me that answer C is probably the closest one to being correct.

and which of this could not be said about a 1953 Hudson?

[Harry P.]

and which of this could not be said about a 1953 Hudson?

Scale Auto used to do a yearly poll of "most wanted" kit subjects, and a Hudson was either near to or at the top of that "most wanted" list for years. If there ever was a particular kit that there was a strong and definite demand for, it was a Hudson.

Why someone didn't come out with one years ago, I can't say. But Moebius answered a demand that they knew was out there. No sane businessman would invest in producing a particular kit if they didn't feel there was enough demand to recover their costs and make a profit. To do that is business suicide.

[jeffs396]

Just think...one day we'll be able to upload a CAD of our favorite vehicle, the 3D printer will spit out accurate, scaled to whatever- size-we-choose assembly parts, and all from the comfort of our own home...

I'll be able to build that Yugo after all

[Harry P.]

Just think...one day we'll be able to upload a CAD of our favorite vehicle, the 3D printer will spit out accurate, scaled to whatever- size-we-choose assembly parts, and all from the comfort of our own home...

I'll be able to build that Yugo after all

Last week on "This Old House" they showed exactly that. They printed out a 3-D model of the latest project house they're working on, completely detailed, all interior colors and details in place. It's pretty amazing.

Check this out. It was output from a 3-D printer as is! No assembly... this is how it came out of the printer!

[Erik Smith]

Or... another possibility here... their research and marketing tells them that the demand for a new kit of a 1/2 ton pickup isn't strong enough to justify the costs involved in producing one, and that's why they're not bringing out new 1/2 ton pickup kits.

I would have to agree. The model companies are not a bunch of people sitting around in closed off rooms and dreaming up model kits to make*. They invest huge amounts of money into research, making molds, molding, marketing, etc. and they decide based on what the market tells them they will profit on. They do market research. They listen to builders - ALL of them - then decide which will bring back the most money for the investment. There are tons of cars I would love to see - and just as many "what would you want" posts - but I completely understand they are to mundane or obscure to ever be made into a large market styrene kit.

*The exception would be Model Factory Hiro. I watched a video about Hiro and the interviewer asked him how he decided what cars to make. Hiro basically said "I make a car I like". Of course MFH kits are quite expensive.

I am 40 (close enough) and find interest in cars from all eras. I built through the 90s when the kit makers seemed unstoppable. Now I see a shift from massive quantities of kits (how many kits was MPC pumping out through the 80s?) to higher quality, lower volume kits - and multiple purchases by a smaller market.

[jeffs396]

Sorry- EVERYBODY I know wants more light truck kits. That's 100% of whatever demographic I'm in. And judging from what I've read here and other forums, it isn't just a 'Central Michigan' thing.

As far as the model company's research teams not seeing the numbers- likely the cause of that is they're too busy thinking of ways to tart up their existing '57 Chevy,'32 Ford, '69 Nova and first-gen Camaro kits to see the forest past the trees.

Chuck, as much as I LOVE pickups, Jeeps, SUVs, and other light-to-medium duty trucks, I really don't think all-new kits of the newer trucks would sell all that well. Now maybe if they'd tool up all-new kits of more classic trucks (I'd be happy if they'd reissue the old ones) they would sell well. If the Van reissues all sell out quickly, maybe they will revisit this catagory.

Just look at the limited growth we've had on ORM...a site that tailors to these vehicles (even YOU don't come and visit anymore )

I wonder how the Revell '99 Silverado sold since it's release???

Edited October 22, 2011 by jeffs396

[Jantrix]

Scale Auto used to do a yearly poll of "most wanted" kit subjects, and a Hudson was either near to or at the top of that "most wanted" list for years. If there ever was a particular kit that there was a strong and definite demand for, it was a Hudson.

Quite right. The Hudson Hornet is legendary in racing circles. Racing enthusiasts make up a good portion of our numbers as hobbyists and they have been wanting this kit for a long time. A little piece of racing history on your mantlepiece.

Just think...one day we'll be able to upload a CAD of our favorite vehicle, the 3D printer will spit out accurate, scaled to whatever- size-we-choose assembly parts, and all from the comfort of our own home...

At the very least our cottage industry/aftermarket companies will have the ability to crank out body trans kits based upon factory specs, of whatever we want. How cool is that?

[Casey]

Monogram released a kit of the 1GN S-10 (well, two counting the later Revell Syclone), AMT tooled up all new 2GN S-Series pickups in both Chevy and GMC versions, as well as a Ranger kit, and Lindberg tooled up Nissan and Toyota compact pickups, the 2GN Dakota extended cab, a 2GN S-10 Blazer and Sonoma 4x4, and that's only the mid-size and compacts. Lots of Ford F-series, Silverados, and Dodge Ram full-size pickups have been done by Revell, AMT, and Lindberg, too, in several versions- Flaresides, extended cabs, dually, etc. Yes, some were basically re-boxed promos, but my point is the selection is quite broad...and I didn't even mention the Aoshima. Fujimi, etc. "foreign" pickup kits.

Now, if you're clammoring for a new/current/recent pickup kit, then yes, you're out of luck. I pretty much agree with Harry on this one- if the demand and potential sales profits were deemed to be sufficient to produce such a kit, we would've seen it produced.

I guess all this debate proves what the O.P. siad- we have it quite good right now.

[Junkman]

I understand the desire for something different, trust me I do, but you have to understand the goal of the model manufacturers is it make money. Put yourself in the place of a Revell executive. In front of him he has a choice; 77 T-bird, or a modern kit of a 1965 GTO. The only kit on the market for either of these is a 1/32 lindberg T-bird, and the old MPC 65 GTO. Both are no where close to being state of the art kits. what do you choose.

Well looking at past trends the GTO is sure to sell ten times what the T-bird will, so he chooses the GTO. It's Iconic. even the non-car guys recognise it.

Obviously the 77 T-bird

The 65 GTO is iconic for which age group? My initial post was in response to someone pointing out that the 'younger' modellers are left out, and I have to agree. A 65 GTO does nothing for me other than me having seen one in an extremely stupid movie. Those muscle cars were well before my time, which started pretty much when the American model kit industry left off in the Seventies.

There are cars I want that no major manufacturer will touch, such as; Tatra T-87, a Siata 208S, Chrysler Airflow, etc. But I understand why.

The diecast manufactureres don't seem to have this fear. They release stuff nobody would have even thought about and it sells surprisingly well.

However, I will stand corrected if the 53 Hudson, 50 Olds and 57 baseline Ford will sell well, I wish they do, but they won't get my custom for one.

What has been said is that today's technology makes it a lot easier to tool up new kits, so there is the chance to do some oddballs as well. I said what I want and I will keep saying it. Who knows...

Oh, and please no new 65 GTO. Not as long as there is paint left I can watch dry.

[Skydime]

I cannot stress enough how much I agree with Chuck

"Sorry- EVERYBODY I know wants more light truck kits. That's 100% of whatever demographic I'm in. And judging from what I've read here and other forums, it isn't just a 'Central Michigan' thing."

As long as parts are available, I will own a mini truck. Granted, that I am now 35, married, and have a daughter, and drive an 08 Malibu. But I will always have custom trucks in my blood.

My point is this. I love that the companies are releasing and re-releasing kits that most members of this site have been around long enough to have owned or remember coming out in 1:1. It is extremely important to remember our automotive history and honor it with the newly tooled and reissued kits that are coming out left and right. However, we also need to remember that the 1:1 market has evolved since many of these cars and kits came out.

At my age, I have the ability to appreciate both the old and the new, within reason. Along with remembering our heritage, we need to try to embrace the future to insure that all of this continues for the next few generations. Custom trucks, modern muscle cars, and tuners are the future of custom automotives and we need to accept their presence so that our children and grand children can carry on the traditions that have made 1:1 and scale automotives what they are today. If they see modern cars and trucks customized (something with which they are familiar), that gives them a gateway to discuss our experiences and memories with them. And maybe they will appreciate the fine craftsmanship of yester-year and the modern technology at the same time.

Since many of us aren't exactly rich enough to afford all the 1:1s we would love to have, we can share this all in scale. Look at the pro touring movement. It gives opportunities to share classics with them and give them an opportunity to bash modern kits for the suspensions, wheels, and drivetrains.

On a much ligher note, I am so glad to see so many new tools and high quality kits coming out right now.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Skydime

[samdiego]

The choice of a new tool 50 Olds kinda baffles me, but so do a lot of other things. Difficult to appreciate the demographics that called out for that one.

In My Opinion:

The renaissance in styrene lies more in the technology being used than the variety in subject matter. While both seem like natural evolutions, different cars being tooled was an inevitability. The revolution is in the rendering of the 1:1. While I'm still not finding dipsticks, what comes in boxes today is generally of a higher quality, dontcha think? They are not without missteps but between the reissues, resurrections, and new stuff, we are riding a pretty nice wave right now. I think my biggest complaint today is the inconsistency of the decal sheets.

Edited October 22, 2011 by samdiego

[Harry P.]

There may be a renaissance of plastic kits going on at the moment (I'm not so sure that there actually is one going on, but for the sake of argument let's say there is)...

Where it gets really tricky is just a few years from now.

Today the average modeler has no way to create his own kit. Acquiring the machinery and equipment needed to produce an injection-molded kit is completely out of the question... even a large modeling club doesn't have even close to the $$$ it would take to do that. And resin casting complete kits, while possible, is also too expensive and labor-intensive to make sense for the average modeler looking to only make something for himself to get involved in.

But very soon the 3-D rapid prototyping technology is going to be so common that they'll be selling 3-D printers at Walmart for a hundred bucks. You'll see... it's not that far away.

And with the continued evolution and refinement of RP technology, maybe the model kit manufacturers will look at selling models in a whole new way: No more factories filled with huge mega-buck injection-molding machines, no more expensive tooling to cut, no more boxes to fill and ship. Maybe they do a scan of a given car and sell the data on their website at their "download center," the same way we now can buy songs.

No more tooling costs means more money to pay for the technology needed to scan more subjetcs, and thereby offer a far wider selection of subjects. Imagine being able to go to Revell's site (or anyone else)... clicking on the "Download Center" icon, picking out which model(s) you want... and with the click of a mouse you instantly download the data for the kit you want. Then just plug the data into your desktop 3-D printer and output your own model... in whatever scale you want!

That scenario is coming soon. It's inevitable. But as cool as that sounds, there are going to be problems the kit sellers are going to have to solve. How do they stop someone from buying a particular model's "data-pak" and then that someone just giving it to all their friends, just like we all share music and video files? Or what's to stop someone from buying a particular kit's "data-pak" and then offering to sell copies to others?

The music industry had to deal with the digital age. In some ways they're still working on it. The availability of music in digital form for anyone with a computer to be able to just go and get it for free forced the music industry to re-invent itself as far as how their product is made available. The model companies are going to be facing the same problems very soon.

[Chuck Most]

and which of this could not be said about a 1953 Hudson?

Respecfully disagree with you on that one. But I'll subsitute your '53 Hudson' with '72 Olds Cutlass convertible. I mean, really, I don't recall seeing that one on anybody's most wanted list, and look at both releases of it fly off the shelf. (And I'm one of the guys who never saw it coming, never really wanted one in kit form, and still bought five of them.)