Very Interesting...

[moparfarmer]

I'am a forum member on both. I think this thread would have been locked at the first mention of MCM. I personally like both mags but somehow prefer MCM. Everybody mentions how they are received. Where I live they have to be subscribed to,and all mine have arrived in like new condition. Maybe the customs people or the postal people in Winnipeg aren't interested in model cars. Just my two cents.

[Jairus]

Light tan woody huh?

[charlie8575]

I think we are just like the kids and their games and such. We come to this form because we want information now. We get instant results and information. Magazines you have to wait for and you are at the mercy of the content of said magazine. Then if you do not like what the content is in it you feel cheated. When the magazines go away so will the sites unless they start charging for them. Would you pay for this site now ? Many of you would not as you do not even support the magazine that brings it to you. I think that is strange thing. Take the milk and honey for free and diss the magazine. Nice of you folks to do that.

James....

Several points.

1. If the price were reasonable, say $10-20/year, I and a lot of other people would probably pay to use the site. Right now, it's free, and I do hope it stays that way because....

2. Right now, I doubt the market or economy could support extra fee-based services or products. I know given my own situation, I couldn't. After a year of effective total unemployment, which amounted to a financial situation that left a cup of (99-cent convenience store) coffee a carefully-considered purchase, I haven't bought much of anything in the last year. I haven't had any extra money. That

That said, the things I've learned, and I can honestly say the FRIENDS (and there are quite a few) I've made have made this experience worth a ton, and if Gregg decided he needed to charge to keep it going, I'd find the money.

3. "Take the milk and honey for free and diss the magazine. Nice of you folks to do that."

I think you're missing the point. Much of this isn't meant to "diss" (i.e., "to disrespect," for those whose first language is not English or amongst those less hip,) but rather to point out shortcomings and deficiencies in a product those of us who have commented on this post care about and want to see made better. This has not been disrespectful, at least up to the point (your comment) I've read, but generally a civil, polite, but quite frank discussion. And one that needs to take place. Certain exceptions have been..."noted," and dealt with accordingly.

Before he was at Chrysler, Jim Press, who ran Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. was quoted as saying (more or less, I don't remember the verbatim,) "we don't want to see any of them [Ford, Chrysler or General Motors] go out of business. To do so would be bad for the industry and bad for consumers; it would overload the surviving manufacturers and take choices away from customers. That's not good in the long run."

Mr. Press' thoughts extend to this market, too. To be a leader in your field, you need more than one entrant. Competition makes markets and products healthy and better for everyone- including the competition. Improvement and innovation inspires others to be better and helps everyone by creating better products and services no matter which you prefer. This is a nice article that sums up the theory, and I invite all of you to read it.

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/small-business-and-entrepreneurship/

Please understand that in no way, shape or form do I intend my rebuttal towards you to be harmful, insulting, or injurious in any way, shape or manner. Rather, it's to help you understand the main point of this topic, which I feel may have been lost in your view of things- it isn't necessarily wrong (and were this a whining session, it would have been completely within reason,) but I fear you may have rode to the defense of something that didn't need to be.

Charlie Larkin

[Dave Ambrose]

Wow. I go away for a few days, and look what happens.

I used to subscribe to both SA and MCM. Now, I just subscribe to MCM. One simple reason; it has personality. Kalmbach is a very professional publishing company, but their corporate writing style makes The Economist look downright edgy. I don't know about the other MCM readers, but I do read the magazine for fun. For more serious times, I read the Economist.

Sadly, the future of print is not good. Production costs, and postage are rising, while advertising dollars are falling. That's one reason the page counts are dropping. It's happening across all publications and all fields. As of now, there aren't any known-good business models to help us along.

The publications that will go first are the niche magazines like SA and MCM. So, which ever magazine you like, subscribe. That helps in a whole bunch of ways, not the least of which is a little cash in the bank to cover the future issues. Larger subscriber populations also helps boost their advertising rates.

There's very little income from magazines in distribution. By the time you get through with wholesale discounts and returns, it's probably a loss, but you have to be there to get exposure and hopefully gain subscribers.

Electronic distribution is a lot cheaper, but the economics are still dodgy there too.

So, where does that leave us? Sooner or later, we'll get the economics figured out. In the meantime, we need more modelers. Talk up your friends. Did we mention that you get to be creative with these models? Expose your nieces and nephews to model cars. There aren't many activities that give you the kind of fun per hour that we get.

Just to be perfectly clear, I don't speak for MCM or anyone else.

[Danno]

Eh, you're right, Dave! That was the intangible I was having trouble putting my finger on ... personality!

Back when I was young ... I had a gig as a disc jockey at a medium market radio station. We were an upstart FM Stereo operation in a market dominated by an established AM rocker that had owned the market for at least a decade. We kicked their corporate, starched-shirt, proper posteriors in short order (even before everyone had FM Stereo radios) and took over for the next couple of decades. They didn't see us coming. The listeners ... and advertisers ... did. Why?

They were cranking out formula, cookie-cutter "proven hits" on a strict play-list with rigid, inflexible precision ~ and scripted verbal microbursts. They were dumbing down to reach the lowest common denominator and achieved a virtually automated "sound."

We were personality radio before 'personality radio' was cool. We invented it. More spontaneous, more interactive with our audience, more fun. No cookie cutters, no stuffed shirts, almost no rules. We were human and the listeners could tell we enjoyed the experience right along with them. We partied while they studied the past demographics. We invented the future demographics. We redefined the market.

The corporate stiffs at 'that other place' never did get it.

I see a parallel. Thanks for reminding me. It's that "p" word again!

[Scott Colmer]

FYI - Aside from being the most original Sketch Pad artist out there - Jairus Watson also built a light tan GSL winning Woody. It was a lightly weathered surf rod. Wish you would build more, Jairus.

Scott

PS - The Fred issue was the first SAE I found. Jarius was in that one too with a 49 Ford Sedan delivery. I bought the back issue with the Jairus GSL winner very soon after that.

[Dave Ambrose]

I used to subscribe to both SA and MCM. Now, I just subscribe to MCM. One simple reason; it has personality. Kalmbach is a very professional publishing company, but their corporate writing style makes The Economist look downright edgy. I don't know about the other MCM readers, but I do read the magazine for fun. For more serious times, I read the Economist.

I just realized something. The Economist has more personality than SAE. If you doubt me, look at their current cover.

Eh, you're right, Dave! That was the intangible I was having trouble putting my finger on ... personality!

Back when I was young ... I had a gig as a disc jockey at a medium market radio station. We were an upstart FM Stereo operation in a market dominated by an established AM rocker that had owned the market for at least a decade. We kicked their corporate, starched-shirt, proper posteriors in short order (even before everyone had FM Stereo radios) and took over for the next couple of decades. They didn't see us coming. The listeners ... and advertisers ... did. Why?

They were cranking out formula, cookie-cutter "proven hits" on a strict play-list with rigid, inflexible precision ~ and scripted verbal microbursts. They were dumbing down to reach the lowest common denominator and achieved a virtually automated "sound."

We were personality radio before 'personality radio' was cool. We invented it. More spontaneous, more interactive with our audience, more fun. No cookie cutters, no stuffed shirts, almost no rules. We were human and the listeners could tell we enjoyed the experience right along with them. We partied while they studied the past demographics. We invented the future demographics. We redefined the market.

I see a parallel. Thanks for reminding me. It's that "p" word again!

Sounds like KSJO in the late '60s.

That's the difference, and that's what'll make this hobby fly. Not that I've met a large sample of car modelers, but there seems to be a big, wide, streak of twisted humour running through this hobby. We need to capture that in print.

Cheers,

Dave

[Terror]

I think being on time makes good business.Why not just send me the copy every month(or whenever) and I'll send ya the money at the end of the year,when I get around to it?

Edited January 30, 2011 by Terror

[trogdor]

I think being on time makes good business.Why not just send me the copy every month(or whenever) and I'll send ya the money at the end of the year,when I get around to it?

You owe me a new keyboard........... I just spit out my coffee laughing so hard

[58 Impala]

I subscibe to both magazines and I am a member of both forums. MCM and SA both have their pluses and minuses, but I enjoy them both. I wish Car Modeler magazine was still in exsistance. I have also subscibed and bought Fine Scale if only for the few car articles and universal building tips. I hope our hobby continues to survive, I would be very sad and dissapointed if it and our magazines were to fade away. I am glad that both mags and forums seem to be doing well, and I hope they continue to do so.

[southpier]

.....like a certain member whose name I won't mention but whose initials are Mark Moore! )

and you wonder why i don't have a signature?

very "junior varsity"

[Rob Hall]

the August '88 issue of SAE is one of my favorites, that issue was packed full of ALOT of really great stuff.

That may have been my first issue..I recall discovering SAE the summer between high school and college..it was revelatory to find a magazine about the hobby.

[Rob Hall]

One thing the model magazines need to pay attention to are typos and factual errors...picked up the SA Contest issue the other day, great pics but so many errors in the captions, it was painful to read.

[DRG]

I've only been modeling for about a year now after a very log time away from it.

Perhaps that gives me no right to voice an opinion, but I will anyway.

We can rant and rave over this Magazine or that one and it means nothing unless those in charge of those magazines are aware of what we are saying.

I subscribe to SA but not, currently MCM simply because of tight finances.

But it is through our finances and letters written to those in charge that we vote which is better between the two.

I have seen a couple of MCM magazines and in my opinion it is hands down better than SA.

[Dave Ambrose]

That's the difference, and that's what'll make this hobby fly. Not that I've met a large sample of car modelers, but there seems to be a big, wide, streak of twisted humour running through this hobby. We need to capture that in print.

My apologies. This didn't come out in quite the way I meant it.

I meant that we need to realize that while there are a few people who take this hobby very seriously, most people build model cars for fun. The writing style doesn't need to draw straight from the Corporate Auditing Report style manual. On the other hand, we don't need to recreate Saturday Night Live or Firesign Theater either.

Using the occasional Hawai'ian word is an example of personality. Mark, your other examples are just obnoxious.I wouldn't like them either.

[Rob Hall]

The fictional example I used regarding Mopar Action sadly isn't far off the mark in their juvenile attempts at humor that constantly disrupted the magazine too much for my taste.

I pick up Mopar Action and Mopar Muscle once in a while strictly for the pictures, not the writing..I get ideas for builds from those mags. As far as other magazines, I like Hemmings Classic Cars and Hemmings Muscle Machines, but a lot of times some of the writers come off (esp. in their columns) as grumpy old men living in the past...

[Dave Ambrose]

Now that example you cite I've never minded myself. While I do build for fun, (& as stress relief), I do take what I do when I build very seriously, as you probably gathered! <_< That's why I made the comments I did regarding humor "taking over" the magazine, as if it is to the detriment of the quality of the information given, then it would lessen the magazine's value.

I think we're in violent agreement here.

I have a different definition of serious. It's serious if it's life-critical. I also SCUBA dive. That's an activity where if you don't take it seriously, someone (possibly you) dies. So far as I know, there's nothing life-critical about car modeling. If there is, I'm sure someone will enlighten me.

[Rob Hall]

Collectible Automobile is probably my favorite of the old American car subject mags...been reading it for 25 years. For vintage racing and vintage European cars, I love Motorsport, Classic & Sportscar, and Octane..

[Rob Hall]

I do understand, because as anal as I know I tend to come across at times, I know of builders that are so anal about every single aspect of building a scale replica, (as in; "When the Reginald Snoots driven Huffington V-12 F1 car was undegoing it's shakedown run at Silverstone on November 14 1963 at 1:15 PM, were they still using inboard rear brakes or had they switched to the outboard ones they used for the rest of the duration of the test & for the following season, & did those have the calipers with the chatreuse dots painted on them........, yadda, yadda, yadda?" & ad infinitum!

I strive for realism, & push myself to build nothing but the best that I can build, but at the same time if it's not 100% correct to a certain day & time or accuracy, eeeehhhhhh, I don't lose any sleep over it!!

LoL..

I can imagine the frustration of trying to be 100% accurate w/ a racing car model, since they often changed lots of details from race to race through a season..

[samdiego]

One point that might be touched on a little more can be likened to Star Trek. I would love to see another ST based series, but what would they do? Every possible story line has been done, usually multiple times. In the effort to avoid becoming stale or stagnant, you fool around with stuff. Even with barely more than a handfull of articles under my byline, I make an effort to not seem repetitive and, for me, humor is an easily accessible tool. I recall that my favorite instructors were also able to add just enough levity to makee things a little more personable. My favorite writers, too. I included some personal info in the review of the Revell 442. It was brief. I thought it was relevant and I wanted to pay a bit of tribute to my Dad, who reads the mag. I favor that route over adding a lot of information about the 1:1. There is no shortage of reference material on most of the full size things, I generally stick with the info as it pertains to the kit. I get somewhat irritated by model articles that are 12 paragraphs on the real car and 2 on the model. But, sometimes you have to do that too. I guess the bottom line is that, sooner or later, everybody finds stuff that they skip over but they also find stuff that they read more than once and for different reasons. I was geeked over th Marion Power Shovel story because I grew up in Marion, Ohio and drove by that old factory every day (they also made the giant crawlers that NASA carries shuttles around with). But I can see where the Tuner modeler might never have stopped on those pages. As for the MCM horn tooting, what better forum?

Edited January 30, 2011 by samdiego

[chris coller]

Just curious, but if everyone here, (just in this thread alone), were to contribute an article to the magazine, how will that solve it's erratic publication schedule or spotty distribution? The former is up to Gregg, & the latter likely in Golden Bell's hands. Until those two problems are addressed MCM is going to play second fiddle to SA & every other model magazine out that that is easy to find in a variety of places & is delivered consistently on time.

I NOMINATE YOU!

[Von Don Koolkat]

It looks like I'm coming in at the end of this thread, so please bear with me. Some of the previous comments in this thread seem to be way off base.

I started with Car Model magazine, also Model Car Science - then Model Car Journal in the dark ages - the seventies. I've gotten SA since their #2 issue, and Plastic Fanatic since their #1 xerox'd 'newsletter' style issue - then also when it went to magazine format. Then - Gregg brought out Model Cars magazine. Of the aforementioned, Model Cars Magazine is clearly the best for overall 'general interest' model car builders. I also respect the fact MCM 'allows' other magazines to even be mentioned.

On time? I don't really care. I feel the reason we get these isn't because we want them on a specific date - it's because we want as many of them as possible! The only thing that bothers me is if it arrives torn up in the mail, which is not THAT often.

I speak as a publisher of 'another' model car magazine (not SA). Putting out a regular magazine or fanzine if you prefer, of any quality, any subject, is difficult enough and involves a lot more behind the scenes work than most of you can imagine. Add to that hobby shop and book store distribution and problems and expenses are increased, and guess WHO gets to pay for the added costs? You! It's easier to accomplish in a corporate structure with a large staff, if ya got one!

All in all, if you want to keep any magazines about our hobby, you must support them. Giving constructive criticism is great - it's invaluable... but to trash any model car magazine because it's not perfect, only disheartens those involved. Don't be surprised when or if your favorite model magazines disappear, especially in the current magazine publishing market.

I want to see all model magazines flourish. I've seen many of them come and go.

Magazine production can be slowed down by so many events - illnesses, disabilities, natural disasters, and even family crises. Whenever I get my MCM, I'm happy as long as I get it.

Good job Gregg/Harry. You are welcome to say hello at the model shows...

One of the 'boutique' magazines

K.A.H.R.M.

[Danno]

I agree.

[Lunajammer]

About ten years ago, I had a conference call interview for the SA editor position. Their call began with an apology, saying they decided to hire from within. I believe that's the time JH was named editor. However they then informed me that due to the internal hire, there was now an editor opening at FSM and would I like to interview for that position. I, of course, said yes but then completely bombed the interview because I was not prepared to discuss a magazine I hadn't read for about three years. Good thing though, I would have stunk there.

But what I learned in prepping is that the pay is not generous and frankly would probably not be worth it for anyone living far from the Milwaukee area to move there unless it is just a stopping off point in your career. That's when I changed my feelings about the hobby magazine industry, their budgets and their products. Frankly I think SA is a pretty good magazine for what the publishers allow them and they're lucky they have a current staff that seems to be sticking around.

That being said, MCM is also a very good magazine considering the editors are also, in a sense the publishers. Nobody's getting rich, they're not McGraw-Hill, so we're lucky that they give us what they do because they are committed to the hobby, are connected to the right people and are doing what they can with what they've got, which by the way is excellent. Without them and SA, there would sure to be many magazines with good intentions that would come and go with the seasons.