Rob Hall Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Mustang sales 1964-2013: 4,319,500. Not even close enough to make the list. Yeah, to put sales #s in perspective, the Focus and Corolla sell over 1 million units annually worldwide. Edited July 9, 2014 by Rob Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 When you think about how relatively few cars there were in the 1910s-20s compared to today (and fewer people), it makes it all the more amazing that they sold over 16 million Model Ts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 When you think about how relatively few cars there were in the 1910s-20s compared to today, it makes it all the more amazing that they sold over 16 million Model Ts. And what's amazing also is there were far more car companies in the '10s-20s that today...countless small independent companies that often had short lives.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Right... there were dozens and dozens of car makers back then. Yet Ford had like a 90% market share. Well maybe not that high.... but they had the market cornered for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Right... there were dozens and dozens of car makers back then. Yet Ford had like a 90% market share. Well maybe not that high.... but they had the market cornered for sure. Yes...and in the mid 60s GM had a majority market share, one year or two they built over a million full size Chevys..'64 and '65 I believe... fascinating to look at the numbers over time. Edited July 9, 2014 by Rob Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 A few tidbits I found... 1923 The Ford Model T accounted for just under 52% of cars produced in the U.S. There were 13 million cars on American roads. There were 108 firms manufacturing automobiles, but just 10 firms accounted for 90% of annual production. 1924 For the second year in a row, Ford production of Model T's approached the 2 million mark. The price dropped to $290. Over half the cars in the world were Ford Model T's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'll call BS on the Corolla. There have been periods (in North America, at least) where Toyota has sold "Corollas" on multiple platforms at the same time. Cars do evolve, but not with two or three completely different (front drive and rear drive) cars marketed with the same name at the same time. It would be like Chevrolet selling the Impala, and selling the Camaro alongside it as the "Chevrolet Impala Camaro"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyg Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 VW golfs are great. Would definitely get one of those (gti version of course) if I were looking for another car. What a great list. My grand father still has a model t. Needs to be restored though. Still runs. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'll call BS on the Corolla. There have been periods (in North America, at least) where Toyota has sold "Corollas" on multiple platforms at the same time. Cars do evolve, but not with two or three completely different (front drive and rear drive) cars marketed with the same name at the same time. It would be like Chevrolet selling the Impala, and selling the Camaro alongside it as the "Chevrolet Impala Camaro"... Those were variations of the Corolla..in the mid '80s there were 2drs, 4drs, 5drs, etc. Some were RWD, some were FWD. All were part of the Corolla family. In some markets they may have had different model names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 I'll call BS on the Corolla. There have been periods (in North America, at least) where Toyota has sold "Corollas" on multiple platforms at the same time. Cars do evolve, but not with two or three completely different (front drive and rear drive) cars marketed with the same name at the same time. It would be like Chevrolet selling the Impala, and selling the Camaro alongside it as the "Chevrolet Impala Camaro"... Then I call BS on Impala, which has been a RWD and FWD car over the years. Completely different platforms, same model name. How do you determine at what point a given model stops being that model and becomes another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 What would make that different from the Lebaron or New Yorker of the same time period? The Lebaron name was on both front or rear wheel drive platform over a 15 year period with those cars being coupe, convertable, sedan, hatch sedan on cars that didn't really share that many of the body lines from one body style next. Same with the New Yorker, had it on compact, fwd, 4dr sedan as well as a "full sized", rwd sedan at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuzzed Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Back in the early '80s, the Olds Cutlass Supreme was one of, if not the best selling cars in that period. There seemed to be a gazillion of those boxy, cranberry-colored cars all over the place. I'm a bit surprised that it didn't make the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I second the motion that these are the best selling nameplates of all time. The Model T was essentially the same car. Bodywork changed, wheels changed but mechanically they were essentially the same. You can swap mechanical parts throughout the years. The Beetle was essentially the same. They are the best selling cars of all time. Corollas? Try putting a 2014 Corolla engine into a 1970! They are different cars with the same nameplate. So are all the others on the list. Mini sold over 5 1/2 million from 1959 to 2000. That does not include the new Mini/BMW. They also have a very high degree of interchange of parts over the years. Definitely the engines and gearboxs can be changed over the years. Beats the Mustang by over a million! I drive a 2001 Passat wagon with 170,000 miles on it. It has been perfectly reliable. Do the maintenance and reap the benefits. They need synthetic oil and premium gas (1.8T). VW had problems with sludged up turbo motors because people were running dino oil and not changing it often enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 How do you determine at what point a given model stops being that model and becomes another? I would think when nothing interchanges anymore. I would say when the platform is changed it is a different car. One Example: A Chevelle is the same car from 64 through 77 despite wheelbase and body changes. They downsized it in 78. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 I would think when nothing interchanges anymore. I would say when the platform is changed it is a different car. One Example: A Chevelle is the same car from 64 through 77 despite wheelbase and body changes. They downsized it in 78. I would agree. Which makes lists like this a little iffy... some of the cars on this list have nothing in common over the years but the model name. Too many changes over the years to be considered the "same" car. This list is definitely a list of best-selling nameplates of all time... not necessarily best-selling cars of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) I would agree. Which makes lists like this a little iffy... some of the cars on this list have nothing in common over the years but the model name, so some of them really don't belong on the Top Ten best-seller list. Too many changes over the years to be considered the "same" car. This list is definitely a list of best-selling nameplates of all time... not necessarily best-selling cars of all time. That's what sales numbers are about..best selling 'nameplates' or 'model names'...not a specific version of the product. All cars evolve over time--the Mustang today isn't the Mustang of 50 years ago. Nor is the Ford F series. It's just that some nameplates have had very slow/few changes like the Beetle did or the Model T did while others are heavily changed every 4-6 years or so. The list is valid as it is of what models have been the best selling over time, not what version or generation of a model. One could dissect the #s for the Ford F series pickups--what is the total # sold since '48 or whenever they first made an F-series vs what's the total number of the '80-96 generation (the longest running IIRC), or the total # of the 67-72 generation, etc. Edited July 9, 2014 by Rob Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 A 1967 Impala with V8 and RWD is not the same car as a FWD V6 "Impala," other than the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 A 1967 Impala with V8 and RWD is not the same car as a FWD V6 "Impala," other than the name. Yes, but the sales of the model count the same. Same with the Mustang, a '65 is not the same car as a '15. Same model, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 The list is valid as it is of what models have been the best selling over time, not what version or generation of a model. Except for the fact that it was called the list of best selling cars of all time. It gets a little messy when a car like the Model T, which really was the same car throughout its life is on the same list with the Impala, which was definitely not the same car over its existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Except for the fact that it was called the list of best selling cars of all time. It gets a little messy when a car like the Model T, which really was the same car throughout its life is on the same list with the Impala, which was definitely not the same car over its existence. This is devolving into pointless trivia... based on the models on the list, best selling 'cars' in the context of this list means best selling 'model names'. Not physical implementation of the product. Very few examples are like the original Mini, original Beetle, or Model T...most models change (often radically) every 4-6 years or so with a new generation. Edited July 9, 2014 by Rob Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Harry! Your thoughts are pointless trivia. Who knew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 to add my pointless point of view... I'll give it to them IF the car was continuously in production, and evolved over time. As in Ford F150 or even the Mustang. The vehicles changed greatly, but never went out of production. Corolla counts since it's been constantly in production. Cars like the Olds Cutlass is a US market only car, so it couldn't have made the needed numbers. Although Buicks are quite the rage in China these days. What I wouldn't count is retreads. Cars like Impala that went out of production, and many years later they dusted off the name again. Add Dodge Dart and Challenger, Camaro, New Beetle, New Mini, Chrysler Town & Country and a bunch of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Harry! Your thoughts are pointless trivia. Who knew? I know, right? Apparently I've been relegated to the "doddering fool" category. On my own thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 to add my pointless point of view... I'll give it to them IF the car was continuously in production, and evolved over time. As in Ford F150 or even the Mustang. The vehicles changed greatly, but never went out of production. Corolla counts since it's been constantly in production. Cars like the Olds Cutlass is a US market only car, so it couldn't have made the needed numbers. Although Buicks are quite the rage in China these days. What I wouldn't count is retreads. Cars like Impala that went out of production, and many years later they dusted off the name again. Add Dodge Dart and Challenger, Camaro, New Beetle, New Mini, Chrysler Town & Country and a bunch of others. I agree with you in principle, but hasn't the Beetle/New Beetle been in continuous production (at least somewhere in the world) since 1938? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I agree with you in principle, but hasn't the Beetle/New Beetle been in continuous production (at least somewhere in the world) since 1938? Argh! You are right, old Beetle production didn't end until new Beetle was being produced. You just wanted company in the "doddering fool" category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.