3D printing growing as we speak

[sjordan2]

One question: If you were an average guy and didn't build plastic car models, what would you use it for on a regular basis?

[Chuck Most]

This is the evolutionary step that will forever get rid of mold lines. No more sanding and filling. That's a step forward in itself right there.

Well, in that particular case "We're not there yet, folks." I have a few 3D printed parts in my possession (and a few more resin cast pieces mastered from printed parts), and all of them have pretty rough surface textures. Maybe that'll change in the future, but for now you're just trading mold lines, flash, sink marks, and the like for an overall rough surface.

[raildogg]

I may be wrong here but it seems that most people get the wrong impression about 3D printing.

The best definition is done by fused deposition method and not currently available to the hobbyist.

This uses a powdered medium which is cured by UV light and uses a printer like head to spray a binder on the powder, and then cured using the lights

The so called home table top models such as, Makerbot, and the Mendel Prusa use a spool of ABS, or PVA filament to melt by layers the part you want. This is the reason for the layer marks. I find that there is a lot of profit built in to the price. They are made of mostly inexpensive hardware items readily available at Home Depot or your local hardware store. The really important parts are the heated extruder and the heated build table which are very reasonable priced from the suppliers. The real trick is the design software. It must by done as a 3D model and most CAD software have a semi steep to very steep learning curve. It is not as easy as it looks boys. I have my parts made by Shapeways, where I can chose a material for my build. I have the luxury of having a desktop CNC gantry router, and a mini mill and lathe in my shop. I am also, a certified Auto CAD 2000 Operator and have a Degree in Machine Design with a Minor in Solid Works CAD Modeling. So, take it from me it'll be a long time before FDM 3D Printing comes to your living room. The really good stuff will stay industrial for a good long time.

[Chief Joseph]

One question: If you were an average guy and didn't build plastic car models, what would you use it for on a regular basis?

The jewelry-making crowd is going bananas over 3D printing. It helps cut their production costs and time, which is the basic value of the technology for just about everyone who uses it. If you browse around the Shapeways marketplace, there are all sorts of things people are making for unique applications. Like this:

http://www.shapeways.com/model/862271/iacoustic-s-iphone-5-minimized-gramophone.html?li=curatedproductGroup&materialId=6

or this:

http://www.shapeways.com/model/97466/toothbrush-holder.html?li=productGroup&materialId=6

[bbowser]

I may be wrong here but it seems that most people get the wrong impression about 3D printing.

The best definition is done by fused deposition method and not currently available to the hobbyist.

This uses a powdered medium which is cured by UV light and uses a printer like head to spray a binder on the powder, and then cured using the lights

The so called home table top models such as, Makerbot, and the Mendel Prusa use a spool of ABS, or PVA filament to melt by layers the part you want. This is the reason for the layer marks. I find that there is a lot of profit built in to the price. They are made of mostly inexpensive hardware items readily available at Home Depot or your local hardware store. The really important parts are the heated extruder and the heated build table which are very reasonable priced from the suppliers. The real trick is the design software. It must by done as a 3D model and most CAD software have a semi steep to very steep learning curve. It is not as easy as it looks boys. I have my parts made by Shapeways, where I can chose a material for my build. I have the luxury of having a desktop CNC gantry router, and a mini mill and lathe in my shop. I am also, a certified Auto CAD 2000 Operator and have a Degree in Machine Design with a Minor in Solid Works CAD Modeling. So, take it from me it'll be a long time before FDM 3D Printing comes to your living room. The really good stuff will stay industrial for a good long time.

That's all well and good. We shouldn't expect to be making our own kits at home of that '53 Nash you've always wanted. I'm thinking of talented guys like you, Richard, with the know how applying their skills to expand a cottage industry to include stuff the majors can't or won't. I look at it as an expansion of the resin industry, making things easier/faster/more economically. Eventually the technology may make it to the home but probably in ways we haven't even thought of.

[1930fordpickup]

The only thing that is friendly to us is the software . I was working with SLA printed models in 1996 to 1999, this stuff still looks the same to me. It is all layers that need to be filled and sanded. For Harry -VCR'S and CD players prices dropped more in this amount or time. YES I think it will be a big bonus for us in the future , just not in the next few years. The TDR stuff is great I have a few of there 1/8 scale parts and I like them .Just the price is holding me back for more.

[Chief Joseph]

Eventually the technology may make it to the home but probably in ways we haven't even thought of.

"Hey, kids; what do you want me to print for dinner? Soylent Red or Soylent Green?"

[slantasaurus]

Every time the topic is brought up, we get the people who say "it's here, NOW!", and other who continue to say "it's almost here", but you can keep saying that for years.

3D printing might be mainstream someday, but look at it like this........The Cubs fans have been saying "Wait until next year" for over 100 years and that's still not here.

Edited October 22, 2013 by slantasaurus

[raildogg]

I will admit to wanting a 3D printer to add to my shop, but. I am one who would, and could, use one for model parts and other very useful items I would want the very best model of printer available, for a certain price point, that being a Fused Deposition type. Currently they are not at a stage where they are cost effective for home shop use. It is the ,only best way, to "grow" any design modellers would and will buy from and for. If I wasn't on a fixed retirement income, I might think about a printing service just for scale modellers, the horizons scare me in its enormity.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Have a company ID or business ?? Would you like a FREE 3D printed sample from a MakerBot to hold in your hands and actually SEE the resolution for yourself?? Apply here...

http://pages.makerbot.com/de-landing.html?utm_source=desktop-engineering&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=de_10172013

[sjordan2]

If anyone has been following Norm Larson's thread on his 3D-printed Ariel Atom, who is probably more qualified on this subject than anyone else here, I would direct you to this thread for his experience with 3D printing:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69078&page=1

Edited October 24, 2013 by sjordan2

[Ace-Garageguy]

More real information from the real world, about 3D scan-to-design-to-production. This is an engineering white paper webinar about current tech and capabilities. They ask for some info from you, like company affiliation, etc. Anyone serious about learning more would do well to look at it.

http://www.engineeringwhitepapers.com/rapid-prototyping/3d-scan-3d-print-design-innovations-faro-3d-systems-webinar/

And here's another readable white paper about how laser scanning actually works. Again, anyone with serious interest in this tech should read it.

http://www.engineeringwhitepapers.com/white-papers/laser-line-scanning/

[KingSix]

In time, 3-D printing will put an end to resin casting, the overall "sketchy" customer service and the ridiculously high prices. Think about it, being able to download a file and print up bodies, parts, even entire kits in the comfort of your own home. Resin casting is the past, the horse and buggy in a top fuel world .. I say bring it on ....

[mademan]

In time, 3-D printing will put an end to resin casting, the overall "sketchy" customer service and the ridiculously high prices. Think about it, being able to download a file and print up bodies, parts, even entire kits in the comfort of your own home. Resin casting is the past, the horse and buggy in a top fuel world .. I say bring it on ....

It sounds all well and good, and the last post you made about this in the resin section, you said the " ridiculous price of resin" ..... if you are complaining about the price of resin...... 3d printing is not for you. I speak from experience, owning a number of 3d printed parts, 1 off items etc...... people complain about a 80.00 resin KIT from modelhaus........ some of these wheel sets just for 4 wheels are 35.00. So now you have a 3d printer in the comforts of your own home... excellent. Well a regular ink cartridge for most computers is around 35.00 + ..... how much will a cartridge of printing product ( abs, etc.) cost to be able to operate your printer?

[KingSix]

It sounds all well and good, and the last post you made about this in the resin section, you said the " ridiculous price of resin" ..... if you are complaining about the price of resin...... 3d printing is not for you. I speak from experience, owning a number of 3d printed parts, 1 off items etc...... people complain about a 80.00 resin KIT from modelhaus........ some of these wheel sets just for 4 wheels are 35.00. So now you have a 3d printer in the comforts of your own home... excellent. Well a regular ink cartridge for most computers is around 35.00 + ..... how much will a cartridge of printing product ( abs, etc.) cost to be able to operate your printer?

Depends on the media you're using, but roughly he same $$ amount. That coupled with the "hit & miss" communication and generally poor customer service from most resin casters, it's worth the extra money to me. I hate ordering something, then finding out after I pay , it'll be 6-8 weeks before you receive your item . If you get any communication at all. I understand that most casters do it as a "side business" but that doesn't exclude them from having good business practice, which includes keeping inventory, keeping amount of product current with what you have listed in your catalog/website etc etc .. I'm not saying all casters are like this, but more often than not, you get stuck waiting ..

[Tom Geiger]

It sounds all well and good, and the last post you made about this in the resin section, you said the " ridiculous price of resin" ..... if you are complaining about the price of resin...... 3d printing is not for you. I speak from experience, owning a number of 3d printed parts, 1 off items etc...... people complain about a 80.00 resin KIT from modelhaus........ some of these wheel sets just for 4 wheels are 35.00. So now you have a 3d printer in the comforts of your own home... excellent. Well a regular ink cartridge for most computers is around 35.00 + ..... how much will a cartridge of printing product ( abs, etc.) cost to be able to operate your printer?

Agreed! The cost of 'printing out' a complete kit would be higher than you pay for resin today. And the provider wouldn't be giving you the file for free, it would be a pay for download situation, not unlike buying software from the Internet.

The technology will go through a few stages of integration within the hobby. As said in this thread, the very best equipment will still be expensive and used in industry. The people in the hobby who debut it will be trained folks from industry who have access to this equipment professionally. I've been printing my own decals since 1988 or so, long before people had home computers and printers. I had a professional CAD system at work where I drew the decals, and an HP pen plotter that I printed them on with real ink pens. Same kind of situation.

At first this technology will be used to create masters for resin casters. They will either have the skill to create the drawing file and print out the master, or will pay others with the skills and equipment to do so. The second stage will be buying parts that were created by 3D printers from others just like you buy resin or photo etch today. They will either mail them to you, or send the file to your local Staples store to print it locally for you. The aftermarket company may be able to modify the parts to your needs. Maybe they can print it out as a 1/24 scale instead of 1/25 scale. Maybe they'll be able to modify a wheel from 5 lug to 4 for you as a special order.

And yes, somewhere down the road you will be able to create your own 3D artwork and print from your own 3D printer in your home. It won't be as commonplace as a VCR or microwave oven, as those are everyday consumer devices that are easy to use. It will be as common as knowing someone who owns a lathe today. I know I won't have one because I don't have enough of a need. Today my own color inkjet printer dries up because I don't use it all that often. My 3D printer use would probably go the same way if I had one.

There will be a cutting edge of the technology in the hobby, very much the same way people have pioneered other disciplines. There will be guys who will invest the time and money into having the latest and greatest and will develop the skills to create amazing things. This will open up a whole new level at model car shows.

And once model cars and computer work is combined like this, maybe this will be the thing that interests young folks in the hobby!

[bbowser]

Check out this slideshow on Computerworld, 3D printers for less than $500 right now. It's closer than we think.

http://www.computerworld.com/slideshow/detail/128090/5-cool-3D-printers-for-less-than--500?source=CTWNLE_nlt_dailyam_2013-11-14

[sjordan2]

Saw an article on this in today's paper. Urbee, the first 3d-printed car (body and interior):

http://korecologic.com/

[Chuck Most]

Saw an article on this in today's paper. Urbee, the first 3d-printed car (body and interior):

http://korecologic.com/

I don't remember which issue (it was fairly recent) but Car and Driver did a small article on that car and spoke with its builder.

[KingSix]

Agreed! The cost of 'printing out' a complete kit would be higher than you pay for resin today. And the provider wouldn't be giving you the file for free, it would be a pay for download situation, not unlike buying software from the Internet.

The technology will go through a few stages of integration within the hobby. As said in this thread, the very best equipment will still be expensive and used in industry. The people in the hobby who debut it will be trained folks from industry who have access to this equipment professionally. I've been printing my own decals since 1988 or so, long before people had home computers and printers. I had a professional CAD system at work where I drew the decals, and an HP pen plotter that I printed them on with real ink pens. Same kind of situation.

At first this technology will be used to create masters for resin casters. They will either have the skill to create the drawing file and print out the master, or will pay others with the skills and equipment to do so. The second stage will be buying parts that were created by 3D printers from others just like you buy resin or photo etch today. They will either mail them to you, or send the file to your local Staples store to print it locally for you. The aftermarket company may be able to modify the parts to your needs. Maybe they can print it out as a 1/24 scale instead of 1/25 scale. Maybe they'll be able to modify a wheel from 5 lug to 4 for you as a special order.

And yes, somewhere down the road you will be able to create your own 3D artwork and print from your own 3D printer in your home. It won't be as commonplace as a VCR or microwave oven, as those are everyday consumer devices that are easy to use. It will be as common as knowing someone who owns a lathe today. I know I won't have one because I don't have enough of a need. Today my own color inkjet printer dries up because I don't use it all that often. My 3D printer use would probably go the same way if I had one.

There will be a cutting edge of the technology in the hobby, very much the same way people have pioneered other disciplines. There will be guys who will invest the time and money into having the latest and greatest and will develop the skills to create amazing things. This will open up a whole new level at model car shows.

And once model cars and computer work is combined like this, maybe this will be the thing that interests young folks in the hobby!

Alumilite White (Amazing Casting Resin) 2 gal. White $114 plus shipping .. still need a "master" , still need material to make the mold , vessels to mix and measure , all of this incurs more cost and TIME. When you are done you'll have a finished product that will undoubtedly need more clean up than a 3-D printed part. Again, we're back to this "time" thing. You're also going to get a limited amount of casting before the mold is no longer usable and you're back to square one.

3-D printing filament is currently $31 a roll from Amazon.com , a "decent" 3-D printer is in the $500 -$1500 price range. The FlashForge 3D printer which is currently $1200 also from Amazon is a pretty good machine, is stand alone, meaning you just plug in the file and go and will print in a range from 0.01 to 0.03 mm, giving you an undoubtedly cleaner final product than resin casting will. ( while the initial price may be daunting, the cot will offset itself quickly, depending on how much casting you do ) Now, as far as the files go, there are PLENTY of 3-D files out there that are easily converted to work with a 3-D printer, a lot of them are free, some are not. But, once the file is yours , you can print to your hearts content . Also you can "reverse engineer" files from video games to get different body styles or mod them to make them your own .

I wonder, did people fight change like this when indoor plumbing was invented ? They did with the TV, VCR, DVD etc etc .. but look at where they are now ? Support will undoubtedly grow as this technology progresses. I see it this way. You can either accept it, embrace it, or get out of the way. It's pretty simple.

Edited November 16, 2013 by KingSix

[Ace-Garageguy]

Also you can "reverse engineer" files from video games to get different body styles or mod them to make them your own .

Yes, and Pico Elgin of the ACME club has already done just this with his Lamborghini 350 / 400 GT. The early Lambo isn't available anywhere in either styrene or resin.

I wonder, did people fight change like this when indoor plumbing was invented ? They did with the TV, VCR, DVD etc etc .. but look at where they are now ? Support will undoubtedly grow as this technology progresses. I see it this way. You can either accept it, embrace it, or get out of the way. It's pretty simple.

Yes, change is always resisted energetically for some odd reason. If the energy expended by naysayers was put into forward-thinking, humanity would be a LOT farther along. I'll never understand.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

You can also probably count on your fingers and toes the number of folks on the planet who have the ability AND the interest to make a GOOD master for resin casting. Little things like poor accuracy and lack of symmetry spoil many attempts. 3D modeling and printing will allow vastly improved product output with a less-demanding skillset than ever before...much like computer illustration has allowed artists who simply don't have the eye-hand coordination to produce work using traditional materials and methods, but who DO have an appreciation of form, style, color and composition, to produce some breathtaking stuff.

Traditional prototyping and machine-shops have been resisting the trend towards this technology, but the ones who will be in business in 10 or 20 years are taking it seriously and embracing its capabilities. Whether for making accurate masters for resin casting, developing prototypes for injection-molding, or straight print-from-file output, it's coming, and it will make models better.

I personally don't think that 3D printing will REPLACE injection-molding for mass-market output, any more than carbon-fiber will ever replace steel. Different materials and technologies have their own particular strengths. BUT, 3D modeling and printing in a vast range of materials for a wide range of applications is already having a major impact on the world as we know it, whether we know it or not.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[KingSix]

You can also probably count on you fingers and toes the number of folks on the planet who have the ability AND the interest to make a GOOD master for resin casting. Little things like poor accuracy and lack of symmetry spoil many attempts. 3D modeling and printing will allow vastly improved product output with a less-demanding skillset than ever before...much like computer illustration has allowed artists who simply don't have the eye-hand coordination to produce work using traditional materials and methods, but who DO have an appreciation of form, style, color and composition, to produce some breathtaking stuff.

Traditional prototyping and machine-shops have been resisting the trend towards this technology, but the ones who will be in business in 10 or 20 years are taking it seriously and embracing its capabilities. Whether for making accurate masters for resin casting, developing prototypes for injection-molding, or straight print-from-file output, it's coming, and it will make models better.

Which is why I am spending so much time looking into setting something up.. guys like Pico are already way ahead ... but after seeing the wheels & Lambo body he had at Smyrna , I'd say he's on the right path. Having the ability to make drastic or not so drastic changes on a computer monitor vs. sculpting and re-sculpting .. it's pretty much a no brainer .. no waste, much faster time from concept to prototype to production, having the option of buying the file & printing it yourself or sending it to a company to have it printed .. it's coming, whether you like it or not .. and it will be a game changer ..

[Ace-Garageguy]

Another real-world-focused article that might be of interest...a not too difficult extrapolation of material presented here is that 3D printing of METAL tools for injection-molding mass-market products (models included) is entirely within reason.

http://www.deskeng.com/articles/aabmxc.htm

Edited November 16, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[bbowser]

Great article Bill, thanks for sharing. I am just blown away by the accelerating pace of developments with this technology (as well as everything thing else). Is the world speeding up or am I slowing down? Never mind, I already know that answer