Weber Manifold for 427?

[Quick GMC]

I am hoping to jolt someone's memory

I want to build my Cobra 427 with a Weber setup. I am combining the Revell King Cobra Kit (for the detail) and the Fujimi Deluxe kit (for the turned metal and white metal parts) and I also have the PE set for this. It is going to be a detailed build, but this is holding me up.

Here is my problem:

I have the Fujimi Kit and the Revell King Cobra Kit. The Revell has far more detail, so I am using that.The Fujimi's Webers are terribly plain, and too small to fit on the Revel kit.

I have purchased the following.

1. Historic Racing Miniatures Weber manifold and carbs

2. Replicas and Miniatures of Maryland Weber manifold and carbs

3. TDR Innovations Weber manifold and carbs

All of these are too small for the kit engine, even for the Fujimi engine, which is a tad smaller than the Revell one.

Does anyone know if a Weber manifold and carb setup was ever included in any Revell/Monogram kit that might work?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Do you want down-draft or side-draft carbs?

The Accurate miniatures 1/24 Corvettes have exquisite Weber side-drafts, but the manifold is of course for a smallblock Chevy. Building an FE manifold to accommodate them shouldn't be too difficult.

Of course, most real Cobras you'll see, if they have Webers, will be running down-drafts. You can't just stand a side-draft up and call it good, unfortunately.

[Quick GMC]

Downdrafts. All the ones I have are very nice, just way too small.

Like this:

http://bdpmotorsports.com/engine304.jpg

[Kit Basher]

Maybe the Webers from the AMT '63 Corvette? They look pretty big to me. http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87081&hl=%2B%26%2339%3B63+%2Bcorvette

[Quick GMC]

Thanks, I'll definitely check that put

[Force]

The Ford 427 has a very wide intake manifold as do all the FE engines, the pushrods goes through holes in the edges of the manifold up to the rockers so it goes in a bit under the valve covers, and no intake manifold is that wide on any other engine than the FE.

I don't know if any Weber downdraft intake manifold for FE has been done in model form, but it can't be that hard to scratch build with some sheet and tubing from Evergreen or Plastruct.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Force

[Mike Kucaba]

I have a set of those that I can snip off the tree if you need them. They really don't look that big though. Isn't there any Webers in 1/24th? How About 1/18th-1/20th.

[jbwelda]

I have the reps and mins set of webers you probably do. the intake manifold is made up of two rows of intake ports supported with a very thin membrane of resin between the two banks, no detail there. I personally would be tempted to split that membrane down the middle and add a bit more to widen it. if it is too short that might be a bit more difficult but I think the widening it will give you what you need. of course they are 1/25 not 1/24 and of fairly small Webers to begin with I think. other than that you might be in for some scratch building which as mentioned probably wouldn't be too difficult for some basic log manifolds.

jb

[Cato]

Edited August 16, 2014 by Cato

[jbwelda]

that's the idea alright, now just shrink that down and you are all set!

jb

[10thumbs]

Yeah Cato, just shrink 'em, that sounds about right!

Can you send me a set too?

Geez, Webers are so cool!

Any Resin Gurus listening?

Michael

[curt raitz]

I am hoping to jolt someone's memory

I want to build my Cobra 427 with a Weber setup. I am combining the Revell King Cobra Kit (for the detail) and the Fujimi Deluxe kit (for the turned metal and white metal parts) and I also have the PE set for this. It is going to be a detailed build, but this is holding me up.

Here is my problem:

I have the Fujimi Kit and the Revell King Cobra Kit. The Revell has far more detail, so I am using that.The Fujimi's Webers are terribly plain, and too small to fit on the Revel kit.

I have purchased the following.

1. Historic Racing Miniatures Weber manifold and carbs

2. Replicas and Miniatures of Maryland Weber manifold and carbs

3. TDR Innovations Weber manifold and carbs

All of these are too small for the kit engine, even for the Fujimi engine, which is a tad smaller than the Revell one.

Does anyone know if a Weber manifold and carb setup was ever included in any Revell/Monogram kit that might work?

I'm in the process of building a model of the Essex Wire Cobra 427 which ran with the Webers

I am using the Weber set from Historic Racing Miniatures (exquisite detail)

plan on separating both banks of the intact and use a sheet of plastruct to fill the gap...note the carbs were angled to the center of the engine for hood clearance on the Cobra 427's

I don't think the size of the carbs is going to be a problem between the 289 and 427...webers-is-webers

good luck

[jbwelda]

aren't some weber carb bodies larger than others? I thought they were.

looks like from that pic I need to add those tubes in the venturis, which I skipped on the engine I used the RMM set on. thought they were too much trouble but I also thought I remembered them sitting way more down in the carb and not nearly as noticeable as those in the picture above. not sure I will actually use the motor on anything (revell showboat nailhead) it is currently just sitting on a stand in my display case. I did cut the tiny tubing down to size, just didn't bother with installing it. another winter project!

jb

[Ace-Garageguy]

aren't some weber carb bodies larger than others? I thought they were.

looks like from that pic I need to add those tubes in the venturis, which I skipped on the engine I used the RMM set on. thought they were too much trouble but I also thought I remembered them sitting way more down in the carb and not nearly as noticeable as those in the picture above. not sure I will actually use the motor on anything (revell showboat nailhead) it is currently just sitting on a stand in my display case. I did cut the tiny tubing down to size, just didn't bother with installing it. another winter project!

jb

There's a little more common variation in side-draft bodies than down-drafts, at least as far as what I've seen over the years. 40 and 45 DCOEs are pretty much everywhere.

Most of the really high-performance 2-bbl down-drafts you'll encounter are going to be built in 48 IDA bodies, even with much smaller venturis, like say 37mm. There are also 40, 44 and 48 IDFs ,IIRC, but most of the model-car representations appear to be IDAs (the IDA being the more all-out racing carb, and the IDF being the more street-friendly).

Edited August 17, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Cato]

Bill's right but omitted the ultra-rare these days 58MM IDA's. They were born for the DOHC indy engines and trickled to a few private race 427's.

They are noticeably bigger than 48's.

Then there's the IDF series but I never saw those modeled.

[Quick GMC]

I laid out all my pieces to compare them. At this point, my problem is the manifold. I can't find a Ford FE manifold anywhere.

1. The HRM carbs are great, but the stacks are built in and the carbs themselves are a bit small. These are from the GT40 Transkit, so I will use them for that. These are out. The manifold is great though, but it's built into the engine piece.

2. The Replicas & Miniatures of Maryland have the nicest detail out of all of them. These are very nice, with very nice separate stacks. A little bigger than the HRM, but maybe a little small. i am considering these.

3. The Fujimi ones are garbage. No detail and the manifold has the fuel line molded in. These are out.

4. The TDR innovations carbs are actually pretty nice. The manifold is very nice, with the finned detail in the center, but it's way too narrow. The carbs are the biggest out of the bunch.

TDR set comes with some extras.

I bought these stacks from RB Motion. I would really love to use these, i think it will top off the engine nicely, but they are too big for any of the carbs. The closest they fit are the TDR ones, but are still a little wide.

[Ace-Garageguy]

One reason you're having difficulty finding an FE manifold is that FE intake manifolds kinda form part of the heads, and include a part of the valve-cover gasket rail. This means that a manifold will have to be made to fit whichever specific kit engine you're using.

This Inglese Weber manifold clearly shows the valve cover gasket rail (far right of the photo, under the carbs),

I would suggest you use the excellent Revell parts-pack 427 Ford engine (cheap on ebay) and modify one of the included manifolds (the two-4 bbl manifold would be easiest) to accept your Weber port runners.

I've also researched several sources for other turned aluminum stacks, which will definitely look far better than what you'll probably achieve with resin parts.

Here's a top view of a similar manifold for reference.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

After looking at your pix again, and the 1:1 pix, it looks to me like the easiest and nicest way to get a good looking setup would be to use the Revell parts-pack 427, as I suggested earlier, and use the TDR manifold with the outer edges of the Revell 2X4 manifold grafted on. With some very careful cut / fit, I think that ought to get you pretty close to perfection.

[10thumbs]

I agree with Ace, the intake on the Revell 427 Ford is the largest I've seen and it's really wide and flat.

Cameron, could you clarify "HRM" and "TDR" for me?

Intersting topic.

Michael

[Ace-Garageguy]

could you clarify "HRM" and "TDR" for me?

HRM = Historic Racing Miniatures, a producer of resin and photo-etch up-detail parts and beautiful multi-media kits. http://www.islandcollectibles.net/prod022211.htm

TDR = TDR Innovations, makers of aftermarket 3D printed parts, available through Shapeways. http://www.shapeways.com/designer/tdr.innovations

Edited August 18, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Quick GMC]

Bill, thank you for clarifying. I think I have a solution along the lines of what you are suggesting; I have the manifold that came with the Cobra kit, the correct one. I will dig out the center of that and leave the outer shell, which includes the mating surfaces where the heads bold to. I will use the TDR manifold, split it like you said, but put the halves on top of the kit manifold, to build it up. Then fill the middle. Pretty much what you're saying, but with a little more meat on it. I was looking at pictures of these manifolds from different angles and they are pretty thick.

Mickie,

HRM is Historic Racing Miniatures and TDR is TDR Innovations. HRM is all high quality resin casting, while TDR is all 3D printed parts.

HRM has the following: Shelby 289 FIA full kit, engine kit, Cheetah kit, some corrected parts for the Accurate Miniatures Grand Sport kit, Their own Grand Sport roadster kit, full engine and suspension kit for the GT40, Full engine and suspension for the Ferrari P4, A bunch of wheels and tires, etc. There are more, but I can't remember off the top of my head.

TDR mostly focuses on 1/8 scale, but they make a lot of 1/12, some 1/16 and they are dabbling in 1/24. They make some really nice stuff. I remember them saying they wouldn't make too much in the smaller scales because they wanted to maintain quality and detail. The Weber setup I bought is surprisingly crisp and detailed. The 3D printed parts leave a little bit of printing lines on them, but shouldn't be hard to clean up.

[Quick GMC]

I have learned a lot from this thread, I appreciate everyone's help.

At this point it's pretty obvious that I won't find an FE manifold. I go the route of making my own. I will do a WIP when I get around to it. I may do it sooner than later, just to post the process.

[Quick GMC]

I found another FE engine! Actually it's the 427 cammer with the huge valve covers. Huge coincidence. I got a gift card from my sister in law for my LHS. Was in there today browsing and saw an AMT 65 Mustang Funny car. From the pictures on the box I took a gamble and bought it. It's really wide like the FE, it's the exact same size as the Revell 1/24

However it is setup for Hillborn injection and would take more work to modify than modifying the cobra manifold.

Just wanted to let you guys know it's out there

Edited August 20, 2014 by Quick GMC

[Force]

I thought of that at first but remembered it was a SOHC, the same engine can be found in the Altered Wheelbase Falcon and Mercury Comet from the same series.

Yes the 427 SOHC is based on the FE but it has a different intake manifold that doesn't fit on a regular FE as it's narrower and the heads are a lot different.

The SOHC manifold is a Hilborn style injection manifold as you said but it might work if the post spacing is right for the Webers, so one might be able to modify it to fit a regular FE if you used the sides from a regular FE intake manifold so you get the part where it goes under the valve cover, and the middle from the SOHC.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Force

[Ace-Garageguy]

Just saw this on another post where ferrarijoe is trading away an AMT 427 Cobra. Look in the middle...FE Weber manifold. Just a thought. http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=93256