Gregg's Two Cents (No Change Required)

[Gregg]

Couple of things I have noticed over the years of going to shows and seeing, what, probably over 25,000 models (yes, that's an underestimate, I'm sure).

The first thing I notice on model cars is that even though great care has been taken to apply Bare-Metal Foil on all the correct and appropriate places, the prep work before applying the foil has been lax.

I see this a lot in the close up photos I see, not only the ones I shoot, but that are posted here.

There is a simple and easy step to get around this, and create a better-looking model in the process.

The eye is by nature attracted to light.

That's why we see red cars first, they, the color red which is the fastest color in the light spectrum (I won't go into the physics of science of this), pop out on the road, on the tables, in ads, etc.

As such, bright chrome work on models attracts our eye.

But, there is an inherent problem with this.

I see a lot of good foiling techniques comprised by the lack of good prep work before the painting and laying down of the foil.

What I try to do is to pay as much attention to the areas that will be foiled as the body parts that will get a super glossy paint job.

The inner parts of the windows, trim areas, and other body parts that will be chrome usually don't get the attention they deserve.

Before, the body parts in question would just get painted silver, end of story.

But, with the addition of the fantastic chrome foils out there now, that happen to be so thin they pick up every nick, dent, dust bunny, and blemish, that as much, if not more, prep work has to be done to the areas to be foiled.

That's why when you see models from Geary, Morton, Kustov, Downie, and others, they POP!

The chrome is flawless, not full of imperfections and bumpy and all discombubaleted.

That's Gregg's two cents for tonight.

And yes, I BUILD MODELS!!!!!

[Zoom Zoom]

Wow, I'm honored to be mentioned in that 8)

BMF is one of my least-favorite details, I love the outcome but I find it tedious to do the job; I learned long ago I couldn't scrimp on the preparation of the areas to be covered, and also that BMF doesn't hide anything-just like paint. I do take the time to get the areas that are to be foiled as smooth as possible, and then I start the tedious task of measuring, trimming, application, burnishing, trimming, or peeling back and starting over, or re-burnishing when the adhesive isn't as good as it should be... :roll: :wink:

I love it when a BMF job comes out right, but the road to get there for me is always full of potholes, bad traffic and a bunch of U-turns It's one of those things that I have to be in the right mood to accomplish because the frustration factor is especially high if I don't start out relaxed and often I end up anything but relaxed after a session w/the foil.

[MrObsessive]

Well thanks for the compliment Greg!

I ditto pretty much what Bob said..............I've learned to view anything that needs bare metal foil the same as if it were paint. Prepping the surface beforehand, polishing the paint, and burnish, burnish, burnish, the BMF!

I've judged contest models where the BMF was put on cleanly, but the end result wasn't as smooth as it could have been.

It may take me up to an entire week in some cases (working an hour or so at a time) to get the BMF put on an entire model. Cars like my '58 Chevy and '61 Caddy were somewhat frustrating to do because the chrome was not well defined to begin with..................goes back to prep again.

As Bob said the end result is many times worth it!

As an elderly man once said to me..........."Effort follows desire". If you want to achieve something bad enough..........you'll put in the effort.

[bob paeth]

I agree with everything Gregg said except ..................................................................................................................................................the word is spelled...........................................................discombobulated. but besides that you do seem to build acceptable models...............

bob

[Guest zebm1]

"Fins, wraparound windshields, and bubbletops get me more excited than a plate of KFC!" hmmmmmm I ain't goin' down that road, nope, uh uh, no-way...... :wink:

Is why I only BMF 60s era Late Model stockcar racers, ..... dings, nics an dents are au natural.

[Gregg]

I agree with everything Gregg said except ..................................................................................................................................................the word is spelled...........................................................discombobulated. but besides that you do seem to build acceptable models...............

bob

You must mean discomBOBulated

[MrObsessive]

"Fins, wraparound windshields, and bubbletops get me more excited than a plate of KFC!" hmmmmmm I ain't goin' down that road, nope, uh uh, no-way...... :wink:

Maybe I should put in "almost"!

[Steve H.]

Good point , Gregg... I've seen it a million times. And for some builders, its hard to get the point across that the BMF is as (or more) important than the paint. I've judged quite a few that didn't pass muster for that reason, and the builders just don't want to see it that way! (BTW, I HATE judging!!!) I'm also seeing the same effect with alclad paints... its all about the surface prep... and builders are shooting alclad over marginal surfaces. Just because its shiny doesn't mean it looks good!

That said... I'm guilty but trying to get better! Its amazing the detail you can pick up with a digital camera! :shock:

[bob paeth]

Greg, Just so long as you don't feel that my comments are ....................................paeth-etic ..................

bob

[jbwelda]

imo chrome is overrated. way overrated.

but what gregg says about bmf is true and it also applies to real world chrome. chrome is an illusionary finish. most of the "chrome" one marvels at is actually the prep work on the metal under the "chrome". "chrome" itself is practically transparent.

but as i said i think chrome is overrated, i much prefer more natural finishes like brushed aluminum or even polished metal. thats why i dont build american iron for the most part.

and that bare metal foil stuff was invented by the devil just to perpetuate frustration in the world. :twisted:

[Gregg]

Greg, Just so long as you don't feel that my comments are ....................................paeth-etic ..................

bob

Boo, hiss, ughhh......

[Modelmartin]

Don't you hate it when Bob goes down that paeth!

[bobss396]

I judge shows and a good or bad BMF job can be a tie breaker. I've seen it looking like a Wrigley's gum wrapper on an otherwise greatly painted and detailed model. Some modelers try to foil a vent window with into one piece, not saying it can't be done, but they should look at a 1:1 car to see where the breaks are and consider using more than one piece.

Another problem area is definition of the edges around window trim and body spears, etc. The good foil jobs are where they clean up the trim and re-scribe lines that are faint or irregular.

In summary, take your time with it! If a piece gets over-worked, it tends to get that gum wrapper look to it, rip it off and start over.

Bob

[jbwelda]

>If a piece gets over-worked, it tends to get that gum wrapper look to it,

>rip it off and start over.

how do you suggest doing that? seems everytime i try it leaves this nasty gum/gooey adhesive behind. how do you remove that?

could it be because i dont use true "bare metal foil" but instead i have a couple sheets of the detail master stuff? maybe they dont even sell it anymore because the sheets i have have to be 5 years old at least. could that be the problem?

i confront this problem every time i use it it seems...try to remove it to make another attempt but it just goes to h*ll from there!

[Steve H.]

>If a piece gets over-worked, it tends to get that gum wrapper look to it,

>rip it off and start over.

how do you suggest doing that? seems everytime i try it leaves this nasty gum/gooey adhesive behind. how do you remove that?

could it be because i dont use true "bare metal foil" but instead i have a couple sheets of the detail master stuff? maybe they dont even sell it anymore because the sheets i have have to be 5 years old at least. could that be the problem?

i confront this problem every time i use it it seems...try to remove it to make another attempt but it just goes to h*ll from there!

The residue might be due to the age of the BMF... but I've seen it from fresh stuff, too.

Carnauba wax, such as "The last detail", will take the residue off.

[Tom Kren]

I HATE BMF!!!!!

[jbwelda]

ok steve i will try carnuba wax next time i feel the need to <shudder> model chrome.

[bobss396]

There is a cool product called Goo Gone which is citris based that takes off tape and sticker residue, also works well on BMF adhesive.

I always wash the area off after with a little soap and water on a q-tip just to be sure it is clean and will take the new piece of foil.

I use the real deal BMF only, have tried the Model Master stuff which just curls up and is not user friendly. I believe that BMF has a shelf life to it, which I haven't a clue to what it is. After a while it looks like a dry lake bed with all the cracks it gets. I also try to buy it at shows only and will split a sheet with someone so it all gets used instead of going to waste.

Bob

[jbwelda]

>have tried the Model Master stuff which just curls up and is not user

>friendly

thats kind of strange...it was this seeming property of bmf that caused me to look for an alternative. maybe the bmf i initially used was old or something because it curled up really badly when i tried to use a piece larger than say an inch. and i believe in the "more is better" school when it comes to this; what i mean is i use a piece way bigger than necessary just to avoid the curling aspect.

maybe i ought to get some new bmf and give it a try.

sometime ago there was a thread about what makes you stop on a project. for me its the prospect of hours of attempting foiling...that will get a project put away quicker than anything for me! but thats why i typically build cars that dont require a lot of chrome or at least not real prominent chrome.

[Steve H.]

There is a cool product called Goo Gone which is citris based that takes off tape and sticker residue, also works well on BMF adhesive.

Isn't Goo Gone harsher than that? I thought it had acetone and such in it?

But you make a good point... Any citrus based cleaner would probably work well to remove adhesive residue.

[bobss396]

I've used the Goo Gone right on paint, of course as little as possible. I use all lacquers so I have no idea how it plays with other paints. I dip a brush or use a q-tip, wipe it on, wipe it off with a tissue, do the rinse thing and it works for me. I doubt that there's any acetone in it, but read the label and try it out where it won't show first.

Bob

[bobss396]

sometime ago there was a thread about what makes you stop on a project. for me its the prospect of hours of attempting foiling...that will get a project put away quicker than anything for me! but thats why i typically build cars that dont require a lot of chrome or at least not real prominent chrome.

[jbwelda]

where do you get those qtips with the wood stick?

and is there any secret to avoiding shedding the cotton onto the adhesive? currently i try to dampen the end with some all purpose go anywhere miracle solution, aka saliva, but that only works to some extent.

oh on re-reading your post i guess you mean you use one end of the wood q tip with the cotton removed...that makes sense.

my buddy jerry amaral has toothpicks he specifically uses for bmf, and says he has used the same 3 for a decade because now they are worn down very smooth but hard. my cat doesnt dig that i have stuff around for too long though. gotta find another cat.

[MrObsessive]

where do you get those qtips with the wood stick? gotta find another cat.

Bill, try a medical supply store for those Q-tips with the wooden sticks.

Personally, I use chamois cloth to burnish my BMF. I also can't stand the cotton strands coming apart when I burnish!

As far as the cat...........I've trained my two to NOT bother my model stuff! It's amazing what rolled up newspaper can do!

[Billy Kingsley]

I learned long ago that you can't use ALL the BMF. The edges of the sheet don't have any adhesive on them at all it seems...Never did any precise measuring but I would say give yourself at the very least an inch around all 4 sides of the BMF...