Decals Under Clear Coat- Yes or No?

[Casey]

I'd like to hear some opinions and experiences regarding the application of water-slide decals before applying clear coats. I know it depends upon what is used for the clear coat, but let's hear about what you've done and used, both successfully and unsuccessfully.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Casey

[RacinRay88]

yes someone pleeaaasseee reply to this....especially in regards to nascar where the whole car is covered in decals...i want to put a coat of clear over it so the decals dont peel over time but i dont want to ruin it...

[Marc @ MPC Motorsports]

Every model I have built to date has decals under the clear coat. My experience only applies to Tamiya TS-13 clear over Tamiya lacquers, Testors lacquers and HOK (the REAL HOK!)airbrushed lacquers and Keith Marks and Fred Cady decals.

The first thing is to coat the decals with Microscale Liquid Decal Film before cutting and applying the decals. Second, use Microscale Micro Set (with the Blue label) when applying the decals. Just my theory, but the Liquid Decal Film adds a barrier and the Micro Set helps the decal adhere to the painted surface.

After letting the decals cure for at least 24 hours, you are ready to apply the TS-13 Clear. Your first three or four coats should be light mist coats only, waiting 20-30 minutes between coats. It is very important to do mist coats as this paint is fairly "hot" and will cause your decals to lift and wrinkle if heavy coats are applied too soon.

If you are successful to this point, you can apply a few wet coats of TS-13, again waiting 20-30 minutes between coats. After the wet coats, let the paint fully cure and polish as you normally would. If all of this work is a complete success, you should have results like these.

Good luck!!

[Pete J.]

I also clear coat decals. Very similar procedure, different paint. I have used Tamiya, but my paint of choice is DuPont Lucite automotive lacquer. This stuff is hot, hot, hot, but with good technique, I have yet to mess up the decal. Several very light mist coats applied 30 minutes to an hour apart. After about 4 good mist coats, wait overnight, then add a couple of medium coats and wait another day. Then build it up to it's final depth and begin the polishing. Never, ever put down a wet coat of this stuff. It is inviting disaster. It was intended to be polished out and will be a bit dull no matter what. Good luck.

[71drolds]

i want my rally stripes to appear flat or matte. will they adhere to a clear coat?

[Pete J.]

Ok, in regards to race cars. look at photos of the real race car carefully. With most of them, (especially NASCAR), you can tell that the numbers, sponsors, etc., are not as shiny as the paint, therefore to look most realistic, one wouldn't spray clear over those decals. To ensure better adherence to the top coat, put a couple of drops of white glue in your decal water, & use setting agents, (Micro Set & Micro Sol, or Solvaset), on them. blot out all water, & take your time. Keeping the finished models in as clean an environment as possible will also help.

Now, if you want the numbers et al to appear shiny, then clear coat is the way to go. It's one's personal preference.

Though Marc clears his decals on his models, (& since he prefers the "Pro Touring" look, that really makes sense & looks great), in real life those muscle cars also used decals, so they would look much the same as the numbers on a NASCAR racer would when viewed close up. Again it's a matter of personal preference. To me decals on muscle cars is a 50/50 deal regarding clear coating; I do think they look better with clear, but I also understand why for authenticity, some builders prefer not spraying clear over them. Another thing is in scale, clear coated muscle car decals do look a bit more 'real" than non clear coated ones to me, whereas NASCAR decals to me look too shiny in scale when cleared.

Yes they will. & as noted above, that is a bit more authentic.

Now, here is where I strongly recommend clear over decals: If the decal represents part of a paint scheme, such as flames on a 32 Ford or the mutiple decals that make up the multi color paint design on Tamiya's Jaccs Accord Japanese Touring Car racer as seen here:

That model is to be painted white, & everything else you see on it is decals. Those color blocks should be the same sheen as the base white, therefore a clear coat over them is a good idea. Now, the numbers are separate so they could look different, (not as shiny), & it would be accurate.

I hope this info has helped!!!

BTW, no that isn't my model, that pic came from the Tamiya USA site. I have one I'm prepping, but haven't gotten anywhere near ready for paint yet.

I am of two minds when it comes to decals and clear coat on race cars. From the mid 70's on they used vinyl stickers and they had a less than glossy finish, so decals on the surface would look a bit more correct. My problem with that is that the edge of the decal becomes very pronounced on a model and that does not look correct, even if you trim the decal very carefully. With a clear coat you can sand away that edge and get a much more even finish. The decal becomes much less apparent. Either way has it's issues. I suppose if you wanted to go over the top, you could clear coat the car with gloss and then over spray the decal with a matte or semigloss finish. Your choice and good luck because this topic has been beat to death for as long as I have been building. Pros and cons on each side with ardent supports for each way of doing it.

[Raul_Perez]

Yes, I clear over the decals...and I'll usually wet sand and spray it at least twice to get rid of the edge from the decals.

I use Testors clear in the spray can for all of my paint jobs. It dries fast and is easy to wet sand with 2000 grit paper.

Later,

[Nick Winter]

I always clear. Decals or not. But If I've apllied a few decals, I'll add a coat or more than I would if I've only applied 1 or 2 decals or no decals at all.

Forgot to mention I've always used Duplicolor Acrylic Enamel Clear.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Dukefan69'

[2002p51]

My problem with that is that the edge of the decal becomes very pronounced on a model and that does not look correct, even if you trim the decal very carefully

Pete, what are you cutting your decals with? If you trim the decals with your hobby knife, you are creating a raised edge. Make a cut on a sheet of plastic and run your thumb over the cut edge and you'll see what I mean. The knife does the same thing to your decal. Cut the decals out with a pair of scissors and that won't happen and your decals will look 100% better.

[Chuck Most]

I only clear over decals meant to represent painted on graphics. If it's a decal meant to represent a contingency sticker or a factory style vinyl graphic, I leave it off until after the clear, and trim the carrier as close as I possibly can. I'll sometimes clear the "supposed to be vinyl" type of decal with a semigloss clear while they're still on the sheet if I think they look too shiny, or if it's an old sheet and they appear a bit brittle.

A lot of people seem to think decals MUST HAVEa clearcoat over them, or they'll shatter into a million pieces or something if you touch them. From what I've seen, clearcoat over decals isn't necessary for protection- they seem to hold up as well with or without a clear coat. Seriously, what does a decal need to be protected from? On a few memorable occasions, I've had bad things happen when I've tried to clear over decals (peeling, lifting,cracking, the decal itself melting), so I try to avoid it in most cases, and make mental notes to NOT do whatever I'd done THAT time to avoid that little pitfall in the future.

[Pete J.]

Pete, what are you cutting your decals with? If you trim the decals with your hobby knife, you are creating a raised edge. Make a cut on a sheet of plastic and run your thumb over the cut edge and you'll see what I mean. The knife does the same thing to your decal. Cut the decals out with a pair of scissors and that won't happen and your decals will look 100% better.

Drew - Good to hear from you again. I use a set of surgical scissors. The ER that my wife works in, throws out dozens for pair a week. They come in a kit and when they are done with a patient, every thing goes out, used or not. They are very sharp and have a great point for getting into the tight spots. When they get dull, I toss them and get another pair, but generally they are good for quite a while. I still get a bit of a raised edge, but you are right about using a hobby knife. I just don't like any edge at all. Of course a lot of the cars I build are from the 60's and 70's and they were mostly painted. The 935 stripes and all the sponsors were hand painted according to all the resource that I have, so whether I use paint or decal, it would be correct to clear over them as they were glossy on the real car. Kind of like what you do with the hand painted numbers and decorations on early dirt trackers and stock cars. Maybe I am just a bit beyond the pale. Personal preference and all.

Incidentally, Skip has got me making my own decals and sometimes I need to double them up with a white background so that makes the edge double thick. Not much you can do about that.

Thanks for the advise Drew.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Pete J.

[Darren B]

Yes, I clear over the decals...and I'll usually wet sand and spray it at least twice to get rid of the edge from the decals.

I use Testors clear in the spray can for all of my paint jobs. It dries fast and is easy to wet sand with 2000 grit paper.

Later,

I too use Testors Clear, the Model Master High Gloss Clearcoat number 2936. Its cheaper to buy it in the little bottles and airbrush it, but what I do is use the rattle can and before spraying the model or part or parts, ill heat it up (the can) in very hot tap water. That way it is highly atomized and always comes out with out any orange peel and lays very smooth that way. And as far as decals that are non race car decals ill do as Raul_Perez and others on this forum, spray the decal, let it dry, wet sand with 2000, spray again, let dry wetsand repeat until there are no edges. I also do spray, sand, respray for my lowrider paint jobs that have multi painted patterns to get rid of any tape edges.....The good thing about sanding between the coats is to also get rid of enough of the clear coat so that it doesnt build up and make the model look as if it was dipped in a jar of clear coat. This eliminates that problem. I have sprayed as many as 10-15 coats of clear on a lowrider model to get rid of any tape edges and by sanding each coat it looks as if it has had only 2-3 coats of total paint.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Darren B

[Harry P.]

I follow a very simple rule: if the decal represents a sticker or vinyl graphic on the 1:1, I don't clear over it. For example, many 60s-70s muscle cars had stripes and graphics that were diecut vinyl, like the "hockey stick" on some MOPARS and the "strobe" pattern on AAR 'cudas, and were applied over the finished paint, and were noticeably less shiny than the paint. If you want your model to look "real," you wouldn't apply clear over those decals and bury them under a mile of clear topcoat, because that's NOT how it was done on the original.

However, if a decal represents what would be painted on the real car, like flames on a hot rod for example, then it would make sense to clear over the decal... if for no other reason than to hide the decal edge.

And finally... the idea that decals need a clearcoat to "protect" them is nonsense. I've been buildijng models for a long time, and there has NEVER EVER been a time where any decal has ever popped off the surface because it wasn't "protected" by clear. If you want to spray clear over decals, that's your call... but there is no need to "protect" decals with clearcoat, they're not going anywhere.

[Pete J.]

And finally... the idea that decals need a clearcoat to "protect" them is nonsense. I've been buildijng models for a long time, and there has NEVER EVER been a time where any decal has ever popped off the surface because it wasn't "protected" by clear. If you want to spray clear over decals, that's your call... but there is no need to "protect" decals with clearcoat, they're not going anywhere.

Harry,

I've never had a problem like you describe either, but I have had some thin decals that have been dinged with the simple touch of a fingernail. My current project has a number of "patches" just due to inadvertent bits. Of course being a 1:12 scale piece it has enough decal to cover two 1:24 scale pieces, so there is a high level of exposure.

As I mentioned before this is always a hot topic with both sides full of very strong opinions. Every time I have see this come up, there are a lot of strong arguments for both sides. Personal preference wins no matter what. It even trumps "how it is done on the real car", but it still is important for the builder to do the research if you are going to compete with the model. If you do, don't surprised when the opinion of the judge disagrees with you, though I will say that I have never seen a judge knock any one down for failure to clear coat. I have frequently see a deduction for not getting rid of the excess carrier film at the edge.

[AceofBass]

Ok, in regards to race cars. look at photos of the real race car carefully. With most of them, (especially NASCAR), you can tell that the numbers, sponsors, etc., are not as shiny as the paint, therefore to look most realistic, one wouldn't spray clear over those decals. To ensure better adherence to the top coat, put a couple of drops of white glue in your decal water, & use setting agents, (Micro Set & Micro Sol, or Solvaset), on them. blot out all water, & take your time. Keeping the finished models in as clean an environment as possible will also help.

Now, if you want the numbers et al to appear shiny, then clear coat is the way to go. It's one's personal preference.

Though Marc clears his decals on his models, (& since he prefers the "Pro Touring" look, that really makes sense & looks great), in real life those muscle cars also used decals, so they would look much the same as the numbers on a NASCAR racer would when viewed close up. Again it's a matter of personal preference. To me decals on muscle cars is a 50/50 deal regarding clear coating; I do think they look better with clear, but I also understand why for authenticity, some builders prefer not spraying clear over them. Another thing is in scale, clear coated muscle car decals do look a bit more 'real" than non clear coated ones to me, whereas NASCAR decals to me look too shiny in scale when cleared.

Yes they will. & as noted above, that is a bit more authentic.

Now, here is where I strongly recommend clear over decals: If the decal represents part of a paint scheme, such as flames on a 32 Ford or the mutiple decals that make up the multi color paint design on Tamiya's Jaccs Accord Japanese Touring Car racer as seen here:

That model is to be painted white, & everything else you see on it is decals. Those color blocks should be the same sheen as the base white, therefore a clear coat over them is a good idea. Now, the numbers are separate so they could look different, (not as shiny), & it would be accurate.

I hope this info has helped!!!

BTW, no that isn't my model, that pic came from the Tamiya USA site. I have one I'm prepping, but haven't gotten anywhere near ready for paint yet.

That's the one I'm working on now. I got 3 decals on then scrapped them (I am novice). I am now doing my own paint job based on that color scheme. I posted a similar thread about using clear. Decals may stay put, but what about paint edges? After I painted a single coat of white on the JACCS Accord and scrapped the decals, I painted 4 separate colors over the white, leaving a "bare" white strip between each one (similar to the JACCS theme). Is there danger if those paint edges chipping or anyhting like that being that the paint is not one complete "shell" covering the entire car?

[wgflatliner]

i'm working on that same exact accord. my plans are to do clear over the colorful blocks. the sponsorship decals (has the numbers, sponsors, etc) i plan on putting on top of the clear coat. the end result looks like the colored blocks are part of the paint, and the decals that are supposed to look like decals indeed look like decals.

i hope it turns out good!

as far as trying to use paint to paint on what would be decals, that's more than likely going to give you thicker edges than the decals. that's been my experience anyways.

[sjordan2]

Just finished watching some Japanese painting tutorials on YouTube, on builds of a 1:12 Datsun Safari, 1:24 GT 40 and Mercedes CLK, all with racing decals. They all used pretty much the same technique:

– A couple of coats of clear over the decaled body

– Sand down the clear with 1200-1500 grit to remove decal edge prominence and smooth the surface overall (the finish gets very dull again)

– A laborious process of using rubbing compound to bring up the shine

– Polish (again, laboriously)

Came out looking great.

[Lownslow]

under and i use automotive clears with no problems