niteowl7710 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Then they let Lindberg use the tooling to versions of the SRT-8 and the Police cars in all-plastic form. The plastic kit doesn't share the same tooling as the diecast kits, also the "Lincoln Mint" 2006 Chargers were plastic kits, the diecasts were sold in boxes that showed the pre-painted bodies and said "Metal Model Kit" on the front. The plastic kits have over 150 parts (267 parts for the police version) and are Level 3 kits. As Steve mentioned Lindberg via J. Lloyd has always owned the plastic kit tooling, the first run of kits were just sold by Testors through that marketing agreement. If you get a Testors box and look at the side it says "Manufactured for Testors by J. Lloyd Inc". Since it was always Lindberg's tooling it's why parts from previous issues appear in later (SRT-8 and Police) version that Lindberg released under it's own name. I don't understand why everyone finds this arrangement so odd. How is it any different than Moebius allowing the first run of the NASCAR version of the Hudson tooling to be sold exclusively through (and marketed as) Model King? Edited October 4, 2011 by niteowl7710 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I don't understand why everyone finds this arrangement so odd. How is it any different than Moebius allowing the first run of the NASCAR version of the Hudson tooling to be sold exclusively through (and marketed as) Model King? I think that's a bit different- that's more of a 'dual-branded' product. The earlier Model King issues by AMT and Lindberg had their respective manufacturers 'brand' on the product along with Model King's, this will still be labeled with the Moebius AND Model King kits. Model King is merely the distrubutor, just like Testors in the case of their version of the Charger.I wouldn't consider the arrangement regarding the Charger kit as odd, although for somenoe who's new to the hobby or not as knowledgeable about who produces what, it has the potential to be pretty confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteowl7710 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The earlier Model King issues by AMT and Lindberg had their respective manufacturers 'brand' on the product along with Model King's True I will grant you that, but those kits were also reissues, not a first run tooling like the Chargers and the Hudson (even with the Moebius logo on the box) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 IIRC, the J. Lloyd Company (which houses the Hawk/Lindberg brands) owns a part of RPM (the company that owns Testors, Rustoluem, etc.). Which explains the Testors Charger in the Lindberg box abit with some cosmetic changes, and the Lindberg/Hawk/Pryo '25 T in diecast form under the Testors Metal-Kit series (the one thats red w/flames on the cover). The Diecast Chargers started with the same basic CAD design as the Plastic kits, that all they share. RPM is a monster compared to J.Lloyd, there's no connection other than RPM used to own the Lindberg brand. RPM still own the Testors brand. One could speculate that RPM-Testors was the deep pocket when it came to the plastic kit tooling cost. No one will ever know the exact details of how and why the cooperate deal was made other then a few executives, that's the reality of the corporate world. It's fun to speculate but honestly, I don't care how it happened ..... we got some nice kits out of it right ! -Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I see a lot of brand shifting in 1/16 classic kits. For example, the Gunze Sangyo Rolls Phantom III has variously been sold with the Revell, Entex, and Anmark labels, and I think there's even one more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I don't understand why everyone finds this arrangement so odd. How is it any different than Moebius allowing the first run of the NASCAR version of the Hudson tooling to be sold exclusively through (and marketed as) Model King? That's another deal that I don't understand. What benefit does Moebius get by letting their NASCAR Hudson be sold as a "Model King" kit? If Model King paid Moebius a lump sum for X amount of kits, then resells them under the "Model King" brand at a higher per unit price (in order to make a profit on the deal), why would Moebius not simply sell their NASCAR Hudson under their own brand in the first place? I guess I don't see how Moebius benefits by having their NASCAR Hudson sold under the "Model King" brand, no matter how the deal was structured. Obviously they do benefit somehow or they wouldn't have made the deal, but I sure can't figure out how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronw Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 That's another deal that I don't understand. What benefit does Moebius get by letting their NASCAR Hudson be sold as a "Model King" kit? If Model King paid Moebius a lump sum for X amount of kits, then resells them under the "Model King" brand at a higher per unit price (in order to make a profit on the deal), why would Moebius not simply sell their NASCAR Hudson under their own brand in the first place? I guess I don't see how Moebius benefits by having their NASCAR Hudson sold under the "Model King" brand, no matter how the deal was structured. Obviously they do benefit somehow or they wouldn't have made the deal, but I sure can't figure out how. Just a guess but maybe these exclusive first releases provided a chunk of the financing for the tooling. So maybe Testors / Model King etc were in from the beginning taking some of the risk, and in return they get the first run at the market when demand will be at its highest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Just a guess but maybe these exclusive first releases provided a chunk of the financing for the tooling. So maybe Testors / Model King etc were in from the beginning taking some of the risk, and in return they get the first run at the market when demand will be at its highest. Testors also released some Italeri kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Testors also released some Italeri kits. Fujimi too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 It's actually more of a co-branding ... Moebius/Model King ... rather than the kit being sold exclusively under the Model King name. The way I figure it, Moebius benefits by having an entire kit run being a guaranteed sellout. Essentially, Dave Burket is assuming ALL the risk on this deal. If the kits don't sell, it's his problem, not Moebius'. It'll be interesting to see the sales figures on the Hudson. Based on the rabid interest I've seen on this forum and others, seems like this is going to be a best-seller among the hardcore modelers, which might spill over into more casual model markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronw Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Testors also released some Italeri kits. Yes and Fujimi, Hawk, Maesto etc. But the Charger was a bit different since they got the first run of the kit, it was not simply a re-issue of an existing kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 That's another deal that I don't understand. What benefit does Moebius get by letting their NASCAR Hudson be sold as a "Model King" kit? If Model King paid Moebius a lump sum for X amount of kits, then resells them under the "Model King" brand at a higher per unit price (in order to make a profit on the deal), why would Moebius not simply sell their NASCAR Hudson under their own brand in the first place? I guess I don't see how Moebius benefits by having their NASCAR Hudson sold under the "Model King" brand, no matter how the deal was structured. Obviously they do benefit somehow or they wouldn't have made the deal, but I sure can't figure out how. It's actually more of a co-branding ... Moebius/Model King ... rather than the kit being sold exclusively under the Model King name. The way I figure it, Moebius benefits by having an entire kit run being a guaranteed sellout. Essentially, Dave Burket is assuming ALL the risk on this deal. If the kits don't sell, it's his problem, not Moebius'. Ken, You nailed it, that exactly why it's done. Nothing beats an automatic sell out, at least as far as Moebius is concerned. Same thing applies to the Model King-IMC 59 Rambler deal. You average kit sits in Revell's, AMT's or Moebius' warehouse until it's ordered by a distributor like Stevens International or mass-retailer like Hobby lobby and the manufacturer get there money one order at time. It could take months, weeks or years to move them all. Selling it all in one lot is a sweat deal and Model King get an exclusive product to sell to whom ever they please. -Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Odd business decision if you ask me. Moebius made the initial investment in tooling up and manufacturing the Hudson kit. They've taken all the risk, and stand to gain whatever rewards come their way. And that's how the game is played, I get that. But seeing as the NASCAR version is basically nothing more than a different decal sheet and new box art (ok, a handful of actual plastic, but you get the point... the NASCAR version is 99% the existing "stock" version), if I were running Moebius I'd sell a NASCAR version of the kit myself, under my own brand name; especiallly since I've basically already taken the financial risk anyway and selling a NASCAR version would cost very little extra. Even if it sold poorly, there's not any substantial extra investment needed to sell a NASCAR version when I already have the stock version paid for. In other words, not a whole lot to lose and possibly a lot of sales to gain. Why sell the kits to Model King at a cheap price and let M.K. make the profit? Again, Moebius must have seen a financial advantage in agreeing to this deal, but I just don't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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