Why not these things

[chuckyr]

I must add to this discussion. I have stopped at countless hobby shops in my travels, always looking for truck kits. I've lost count on the times shop workers (maybe owners?) that I've talked to who say "truck kits don't sell." What is on their shelves? European style trucks and trailers - not the American offerings. Of course they don't sell - the market for Euro trucks is non-existant in north America. I watched one shop sit on the same high-dollar European cabover kit for over 2 years while the AMT, Revell-Monogram and the Italeri Peterbilt and Freightliners sold around it. Wrong product, wrong market. Distributors don't realize or understand this specific market and you cannot convince me otherwise. To them (and the majority of shop operators) a truck is a truck is a truck (with pickups and fire appuratus lumped with trucks).

Tim

Exactly! Those that are not in to heavy commercial or construction modeling tend to lump all trucks in one category. The way I see car modeling, a 1967 Corvette is the same as a 1970 Corvette is to me, a 1978 Camaro is the same as a 1988 Camaro is to me or one NASCAR verses another NASCAR. Same body, different decals.

[chuckyr]

It was a joke. based on the fact this thread has more than jumped the shark.

Less of a joke, more facetious.

[Ben]

It was a joke. based on the fact this thread has more than jumped the shark.

The Fonz jumped sharks! Remember that!? LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpraJYnbVtE

Edited September 2, 2013 by Ben

[dh1908]

Alright, it's time for my 2-cents. I didn't read ALL of the arguments on here, it was just too much to read.

Months ago when the former Hobby Heaven was listing on Ebay, I found 2 ads for AMT kits that were going

to be released, but never were.

Must have been sometime in the 70s. I would have bought both kits.

T-816 Link-belt Speeder Power Shovel (Sept) Yr??

#5601 Ford/ Garwood Refuse Truck (July release) Yr??

I asked about them and found out they were scheduled for release, but never made it.

I'm wondering if the dies were made? Licensing problems? AMT was already struggling?

Does anyone know anything about them?

Dave H

[Ben]

Alright, it's time for my 2-cents. I didn't read ALL of the arguments on here, it was just too much to read.

Months ago when the former Hobby Heaven was listing on Ebay, I found 2 ads for AMT kits that were going

to be released, but never were.

Must have been sometime in the 70s. I would have bought both kits.

T-816 Link-belt Speeder Power Shovel (Sept) Yr??

#5601 Ford/ Garwood Refuse Truck (July release) Yr??

I asked about them and found out they were scheduled for release, but never made it.

I'm wondering if the dies were made? Licensing problems? AMT was already struggling?

Does anyone know anything about them?

Dave H

From what I have heard, there was strike going on at AMT at the time which greatly affected the release of these kits.

[Tom Geiger]

#5601 Ford/ Garwood Refuse Truck (July release) Yr??

I asked about them and found out they were scheduled for release, but never made it.

I'm wondering if the dies were made? Licensing problems? AMT was already struggling?

Does anyone know anything about them?

There was a strike at AMT, mainly the packaging people, but the designers were from the same union and had to honor the strike. When they went out the wood buck for the Garwood was on the workbench. When they came back, it had warped beyond use. With AMT recovering financially from the strike, it was decided not to pursue recreating all that lost work. I read that recently on Bonediggers.

[raildogg]

Not to add fuel to an over the top discussion but, when I started this miasma I also wished for better tires what about that. Styrene tires made in halves, split into two pieces, could be made with logos, lettering , accurate tread patterns and a bump for a weighted look, right?. This would be a great sale s point, kits with life like tires to fit the wheel rims too. Chew on this a while.

[sjordan2]

Not to add fuel to an over the top discussion but, when I started this miasma I also wished for better tires what about that. Styrene tires made in halves, split into two pieces, could be made with logos, lettering , accurate tread patterns and a bump for a weighted look, right?. This would be a great sale s point, kits with life like tires to fit the wheel rims too. Chew on this a while.

Manufacturers would also have to pay licensing fees for tires with logos (to satisfy builders). And, as we've seen above, creating the molds for styrene tires would be extremely expensive. Don't know how that compares to vinyl or rubber tire costs.

[Harry P.]

Not to add fuel to an over the top discussion but, when I started this miasma I also wished for better tires what about that. Styrene tires made in halves, split into two pieces, could be made with logos, lettering , accurate tread patterns and a bump for a weighted look, right?. This would be a great sale s point, kits with life like tires to fit the wheel rims too. Chew on this a while.

The reason that most kit tires these days have no logos or sidewall detail is that the kit manufacturers don't want to pay the licensing fees to the tire makers. If they molded the tires in styrene instead, those same licensing fees would be in play, so we'd get styrene tires with blank sidewalls instead of vinyl tires with blank sidewalls.

[Modelbuilder Mark]

Manufacturers would also have to pay licensing fees for tires with logos (to satisfy builders). And, as we've seen above, creating the molds for styrene tires would be extremely expensive. Don't know how that compares to vinyl or rubber tire costs.

Only if the tires were of a real company, and were the larger companies. The model companies could approach smaller tire companies which would likely be easier, or even make up their own fake brand names which would still look better than a blank sidewall.

[mistermodel]

Only if the tires were of a real company, and were the larger companies. The model companies could approach smaller tire companies which would likely be easier, or even make up their own fake brand names which would still look better than a blank sidewall.

a fake tire wouldn't pass. not even on a mustang lx with a crappy roof line and floating alternator

[Art Anderson]

Not to add fuel to an over the top discussion but, when I started this miasma I also wished for better tires what about that. Styrene tires made in halves, split into two pieces, could be made with logos, lettering , accurate tread patterns and a bump for a weighted look, right?. This would be a great sale s point, kits with life like tires to fit the wheel rims too. Chew on this a while.

The problem with mastering and tooling a treaded tire (think street use here) in hard styrene as a 2-piece unit is that unless the tread area is tapered (almost cone-shaped) there would be no chance of adding any tread detail. Model parts have to come out of the mold, and while the sidewall area can "pull away" straight off the mold, the tread area of any plastic model tire that is molded either as a one-piece unit or even if split in halves down the middle of the tire tread area simply has to move "sideways" against the surface of the tooling. Soft plastics such as PVC, even neoprene or other synthetic rubber can do that with relative ease, as any detailing on the tread can flex against the steel tooling surface making such tread as is tooled, and do that for a long, long time (eventually, of course even PVC detailed surfaces slide sideways ACROSS a steel mold surface will wear that area noticeably). Hard plastics, such as styrene won't flex in order to be pulled sideways against any sort of detail at all, in fact a hard styrene cylindrical part has to be tooled with at least a slight draft angle in order to avoid inevitable "scuff" or "scratch marks" on whatever model part is molded.

Sidewall detail is something that has always been possible with PVC and certainly synthetic rubber model car tires. However, it does seem to me that the overwhelming majority of model car builders have, for decades, far preferred as much tread pattern detail as can be produced. Another thought, which Harry P. mentioned very early in this thread, would be to make the tread as a separate styrene strip or strips, to be bent around the circumference of the tire. That could give superb detail, but here again, I would wonder just how well that would be received by the overall model car hobby.

As for the flat "contact patch" where the tire meets the pavement, and the inevitable sidewall bulge--that's something that has been tried in model aircraft kits, at least by the resin aftermarket serving that part of the scale modeling hobby. This would have to be quite subtle, lest the tire look noticeably underinflated. Also, the contact patch of a properly inflated automobile tire isn't all that large, perhaps about 4" by the width of the tread. This is something I'd wonder if the hobby in general would accept such a feature of model car tires were it to be done, even successfully.

Art

[Richard Bartrop]

Not to add fuel to an over the top discussion but, when I started this miasma I also wished for better tires what about that. Styrene tires made in halves, split into two pieces, could be made with logos, lettering , accurate tread patterns and a bump for a weighted look, right?. This would be a great sale s point, kits with life like tires to fit the wheel rims too. Chew on this a while.

I can`t answer for everyone, but for me, I started building 1/32 Pyro and Aurora, so I tend to associate styrene wheels with being a cheap and inferior kit. In the days before your could get semigloss finished, black paint never looked sufficiently `tire like`.

Sidewall and tread detail can and have been incorporated into vinyl and rubber tires. My personal favourites are the neoprene tires that the Japanese kitmakers love. The lack of proper logos and such nowadays has more to do with licensing issues than choice of material. If anything. molding tires in a flexible material means that you can get away with making a mould with undercuts like tread. Making a hard tire with realistic would mean a multipiece mould, and aside from the extra cost, it would also mean lots of mould lines to clean off all that intricate tread. In fact, looking at the hard tires on the Italeri kits I have in my stash, and their lack of tread, I`m not sure where you`re getting this idea that styrene is a superior choice for representing tread.

You`re the first person I`ve ever seem make a fuss about tire bulges in cars, so I guess I`re just not that big a deal with modelers. It could very well be related to why all model car kits still have provision for rotating wheels. If it really bugs you, you could always follow the example of the model airplane crowd, and make a prebulged aftermarket tire in resin for all those who share your concern.

[Richard Bartrop]

And it looks like Art already beat me to it...

[Richard Bartrop]

Don`t some of the dragster kits come with flattened slicks?

Edited September 3, 2013 by Richard Bartrop

[Kaleb]

And we wonder about women being so dramatic.

[Dave Van]

And we wonder about women being so dramatic.

We're still amatuers in that dept!!!!

[Art Anderson]

Don`t some of the dragster kits come with flattened slicks?

Years ago, AMT included some wrinkled "Wrinkle-wall" slicks in several kits. They were done in hard styrene if memory serves me correctly--and I believe they did have a flat "contact patch" that coincided with the wrinkled sidewalls.

Art

[Skydime]

The reason that most kit tires these days have no logos or sidewall detail is that the kit manufacturers don't want to pay the licensing fees to the tire makers. If they molded the tires in styrene instead, those same licensing fees would be in play, so we'd get styrene tires with blank sidewalls instead of vinyl tires with blank sidewalls.

I never understood this. Although I know it is part of their reasoning. But do they pay per use? The reason I ask is, they have no problem paying Goodyear and tons of other companies to put their logo on NASCAR and other racing kits but, not on tires.

And my two cents, I'd like to see some actual rubber tires in kits. Seems to me that would be most realistic.

[Harry P.]

I never understood this. Although I know it is part of their reasoning. But do they pay per use? The reason I ask is, they have no problem paying Goodyear and tons of other companies to put their logo on NASCAR and other racing kits but, not on tires.

This is just a guess, I don't have any "inside information," but the manufacturers pretty much have to include the correct decals if they're selling a model of a specific car and the markings are an important part of the car. But they can get away with leaving logos off tires and just make them generic, especially on a non-racing model where tire branding isn't as obvious. I don't know how the licensing is determined... whether it's a one time overall fee or if it's on a model-by-model basis, but I would guess that every set of tires they can include in a kit with no brand name on them saves them a few $$$.

[Ben]

Years ago, AMT included some wrinkled "Wrinkle-wall" slicks in several kits. They were done in hard styrene if memory serves me correctly--and I believe they did have a flat "contact patch" that coincided with the wrinkled sidewalls.

Art

Most of the Monogram Funny cars, Snake, Mongoose, Cop Out and such, all shared the same rear slicks that had a wrinlke wall. They're two piece vinyl.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Ben

[johnbuzzed]

Gee, didn't see this coming from six miles away. That's because this is Model CARS Magazine! There are VERY few truck modelers that even bother with this forum. Try going over to the Model Truck Discussion Group on Facebook and look at the replies there to the exact same question. You guys are clueless about what we want!

So, go back to the truck discussion group if you think we here are "clueless". Why are you banging your head against a wall in what seems to be an attempt to convince us of something that to you, we apparently don't care about? Spend your resources on writing to the manufacturers and discussing with the group on Facebook. If "There are VERY few truck modelers that even bother with this forum.", why are YOU here?

[Ben]

So, go back to the truck discussion group if you think we here are "clueless". Why are you banging your head against a wall in what seems to be an attempt to convince us of something that to you, we apparently don't care about? Spend your resources on writing to the manufacturers and discussing with the group on Facebook. If "There are VERY few truck modelers that even bother with this forum.", why are YOU here?

Well, if you would have read the entire thread you would know, I don't just build trucks, I build cars and pickups as well, have over a thousand kits of them. Trucks and construction equipment are just first on my favorites list.

[Ben]

I just realized, there has been a few times on the main model truck group I belong too where a member has said they would like to see a certain car kit made, one was a cop car but I forget what year. What I do remember, out of the hundreds of truck modelers on there, not one of them felt the need to disagree with them. I guess we're just a little more open minded over there.

[Casey]

Well, if you would have read the entire thread you would know, I don't just build trucks, I build cars and pickups as well, have over a thousand kits of them. Trucks and construction equipment are just first on my favorites list.

Then you can understand how a model group which is very specific doesn't make a good control group by which to judge automotive model builders as a whole. It stands to reason that a Star Trek model group's members would be far more interested in seeing a new Star Trek kit than well, pretty much anything, and your truck-specific facebook group is no different. Post the same thing on Randy Ayers' or the Straightline Modelers forum and you'll get similar results when dealing with specific genres of model building.

What I do remember, out of the hundreds of truck modelers on there, not one of them felt the need to disagree with them. I guess we're just a little more open minded over there.

The O.P. and the second and third person to reply to this topic agreed with the idea for more construction equipment, so you're not alone in your desire, just outnumbered.