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Cleaning and prepping questions on Resin


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#1 crispy

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 05:37 PM

I'm really new to resin but was commissioned to build a phantom Trans Am out of the Jimmy Flintstone resin kit.
Anyway, this would be my first time with a body. I've done small bits before, but nothing like this.

My questions:

When the body is ready, do I soak the contents in westley's?

If so, how long?

Let it soak, then scrub it clean with soap and water?

After all that I should be able to prime and prep like any model correct?

I've heard that using lacquer thinner can work too. I'm just a real newb to this and am looking for some guidance.
I thank you all for your time and assistance.

Chris

#2 Zoom Zoom

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 02:58 AM

I just spray a bit of Easy Off on resin, let it sit for about 10 minutes, then rinse thoroughly. Westley's is okay to immerse the body in for awhile. I've had a couple resin kits from a couple prominent companies that were greasy from an impervious mold release that Westleys didn't touch, nor even other cleaners, still had fisheyes...but Easy Off got all of it. So I don't bother with anything but Easy Off now.

#3 monkeyclaw

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 04:05 AM

I'll say it again; As a caster; I never recommend immersion of any type; I personally use a product by Dupont (Presp-sol) but there are others like it out there....wipe on...let haze; wipe off....these products are designed and formulated to attack and remove silicone based materials; as well as many "wax" products....and have been used by automotive painters for decades. Alot of your cleaning and prep will depend on WHO makes the body....some casters use "slip" agents in their molds; to prolong the mold life; and more readily release the parts....These agents are typically PVA (or now) even PTFE dry spray....YES; PTFE....the same slippery stuff that's put into engine oil friction modifiers (like slick 50)....I personally don't use any type of slip agents when casting parts; and never have any paint issues whatsoever....I just prep-sol, and shoot primer....that being said....the molds ARE made of silicone; and when heated the molds can and do "weep" silicone oil at times; when I have a weepy mold; I simply dust the mold s with Talc...which is back to the reason that I use a product specifically formulated for the removal of silicone based products. Now I am not trying to offend, or anything like that; but you will get 50 different answers, by 50 different posters for this question....everybody has a "special" method of cleaning resin prior to paint. I would not recommend the use of any Lacquer thinner on a resin body; as it may craze the resin; the same way it "eats" polystyrene plastic. When you start buying resin bodies from various sources; you will figure out very quickly WHO uses slips and who doesn't; and adjust your pre-paint regimen accordingly. Just my 2cents...which in todays economy is actually my 1/4 of a cent..................matt

#4 crispy

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 11:32 AM

Thanks Bob. Easy Off is readily available to me. I'll have to try it out. It works with everything else I use it for. I should have just tried it.

Matt, thanks for the answers. I really should have checked back here after I posted as I just came back from the paint jobber. I could have gotten some prep-sol then. I will definitely try that out too.

Not sure if I'm into resin bodies yet. So far I'm not enjoying working on this one.

Again, thanks for your time guys.
Chris

#5 monkeyclaw

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 02:05 PM

Chris; No problem! I do know how you feel....I have had a couple of resins that were just NO fun at all....I bought one of the CMM 1/12 scale Porsche 917 kits in 1/12th scale....I was so not into doing all of the work to make it look decent; I sold it off......it is heretofore referred to as "THE BRICK" in my modeling circle..........matt

#6 bobss396

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 12:58 AM

I've used Prep-sol for years on 1:1 cars, never thought to use it on resin, I'll have to try it. I'll also have to try the oven cleaner, thanks for both tips. The Blech White just take way too long for me and I've always been suspect about it working thoroughly. When in doubt, ask the resin caster for his recommendation.

Bob

#7 crispy

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 06:40 AM

Mark, I gotta tell you I always enjoy your posts. I could print out a book with everything you post. I think that's what I enjoy. I was hoping you had some insight on cleaning and prepping too, but alas, you did not. B)

Anyway, I hope that working on this resin piece doesn't kill it for me as I know their are a few other pieces I would like to try. I certainly understand what a person is getting into when purchasing resin, but I did not realize the amount of work to clean the body of "flash", filling of holes, re-scribing, cleaning and prepping. Lots of work. It is especially more difficult when the piece you are doing is not yours, but for someone else. Extra care has to be taken.

The request was for me to build it as a convertible in the 69 Trans Am color scheme. I thought about it hard and after working on the body, which by the way is still not in primer, let alone cleaned, let him know that I wasn't even going to fool with cutting the top. I need more experience with resin before I start major surgery. Thankfully he was fine with that and told me no rush as he NOW understands the hurdles I am dealing with.

I guess I'm just not ready to let go of the plastic yet....

Oh, and Mark, keep posting your stories. I enjoy them. -_-
Chris

Edited by crispy, 25 April 2008 - 06:41 AM.


#8 MrObsessive

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 07:30 AM

To add some more fuel to this thread............. B) I used Dawn Dish Detergent as well as Easy Off Oven Cleaner (Yellow Can) as Bob mentioned for removing mold release. One thing I've found with some resin bodies is that if they need to be reshaped by heating under hot water, it's best not to wash them again in the hot water as the resin can have a "memory" and go back to what it was.

I learned this on a Lemans Miniature GT40 that just wouldn't cooperate until I realized what I was doing wrong. It took the Modelhaus '61 Caddy to make me figure this out, so the GT40 may be back on the worktable once again....................maybe!

Also if you have to sand an area to be repainted for some reason, it might be a good idea to reclean that area as the oils from the resin may have leached through to the surface making painting a nightmare!

Mark, in reference to your '57 Pontiac Safari you mentioned about the wheelbase being identical to the '55 Nomad. If memory serves me, I think the Pontiac should have a bit longer wheelbase than the Nomad. IIRC, the Safari had a longer dash to front wheelbase distance than the Nomad, but I haven't seen the model.

It's no big deal in scale as it's a couple scale inches but you know me and my "Obsessiveness"! -_-


#9 crispy

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 08:01 AM

Bill, thanks for the hot water tips. I had a feeling hot water would do something to the body, so I was using luke warm water so as not to wreck or twist something that shouldn't be.

Again, guys, thanks for all the tips and help. I really appreciate it.

Chris

#10 crispy

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 11:42 AM

Mark, the little sheet I got with the body says, and I quote,"Parts must be washed off with soap(Westley's white wall cleaner),and alcohol to remove mold release."
It appears from that statement you have to use Westley's and alcohol. So it's a double whammy!

I think I'll stick to the easy off and prep-sol. I don't want to line my shop full of cleaners too. It's already stuffed full of paint, tools, kits and general "stuff".

Mark, I didn't realize you were a novice as well. I'm glad I posted as I hope it will help others too.

Chris

#11 MrObsessive

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 01:26 PM

Now, do you use the Easy Off first, & then the Dawn, or vice versa?


It's either one at a particular moment Mark..................I like using the Easy Off a little better between the two though. Yeah, it's harsher stuff, but like Listerine for bad breath, I know it'll get the job done! :wub:

#12 Billy Kingsley

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 03:25 PM

I use Bleche-White and have never had a problem. Some resins you get are clearly overly slimy...you can tell when you get one. I had one from R&R Vacuum Craft that was particularly bad...so I dropped it in the Bleche-White, and actually forgot about it. Turns out it was in the Bleche-White for 7 months.

It's fine. And super clean, too, but I've not gone back to it yet. (It's his not very accurate 67 El Camino).

A trick I picked up somewhere...don't recall where...is that if masking tape will stick to it, it's ready to build. That seems to work too. Just to try and see what the reaction would be I put some tape on an uncleaned body. It literally popped off, and at that it completly removed all adhesive from the tape.

Jimmy's resins tend to be more on the slimy side, so good luck with that.

#13 crispy

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 03:49 PM

Jimmy's resins tend to be more on the slimy side, so good luck with that.


Oh Billy, I didn't want to hear that, but I can tell you this. I have a spare resin hood from that kit and thought I had it cleaned. So I went ahead and sprayed some Tamiya primer on it and it just flakes off.
This is going to be a long battle....
Chris

#14 Zoom Zoom

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 04:49 PM

Oh Billy, I didn't want to hear that, but I can tell you this. I have a spare resin hood from that kit and thought I had it cleaned. So I went ahead and sprayed some Tamiya primer on it and it just flakes off.
This is going to be a long battle....
Chris


Cleaned w/Easy Off? The greasiest, slimiest resins were no match for Easy Off, in my case. That greasy MGB GT really taught me something, regardless of the pain I went through to find out that Easy Off worked not only to strip the paint that was running off in sheets, but also made the resin finally pass the tape test (Prep Sol/Naptha/Westleys/Castrol/Bon Ami didn't touch the stuff, and lacquer thinner wasn't quite good enough either). I got a Corvette concept resin several years back that was also a greasy mess, and Easy Off got it squeaky clean. I don't bother with any other solvent or cleaner, other than warm soapy water and maybe a wipe w/isopropyl before shooting paint.

#15 crispy

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 05:08 PM

Thanks Bob. I actually did that test before I asked my questions, hence the post here and now. I used Westley's and denatured alcohol. And as you can see from my post about the hood, those were not the cleaners to use.

I have yet to get the easy off out and try it. I'll try it out this weekend though.

Chris

#16 MrObsessive

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 06:47 AM

Mark, just a couple days ago, I primered the fender skirts for the '55 Ford which were from The Modelhaus. I first cleaned them with the Easy Off which I let sit overnight, and them primered them.

The paint has not flaked off as I had to sand them down a little and sometime in a couple days I'll be color coating them.

IIRC, the Modelhaus '61 Cadillac I did I first cleaned up with Easy Off, and you've seen how that turned out after I painted and polished it. ;)

The way Easy Off takes out the nastiest of grimy ovens, mold release should be no match for it! :lol:


#17 novadose71

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 03:47 PM

A little off subject matter , but Time Machine Resins recommends a soap and water wash. I soaked 5 sets of their wheels in Westleys, all were fine but one, which turned into Silly Putty. It's still soft 8 months later. He did replace the whole set for free though, good people over there.

BTW Chris, Is this the look you are going for? I had planned a blue with white convertible to go alongside this but it hasn't happened yet. Please,please,please, post pics of yours when it's done.
Posted Image

#18 crispy

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 04:25 PM

BTW Chris, Is this the look you are going for? I had planned a blue with white convertible to go alongside this but it hasn't happened yet. Please,please,please, post pics of yours when it's done.
Posted Image


Rob, yes, exactly that! Thanks for posting it.
I took my buddy to the closest hobby shop and told him to buy the paint he wanted. All Tamiya colors. He wants the car to be pearl white with Fred Cady 69 decals and a matching blue interior.

It's my first resin and as I said earlier, I'm not real thrilled about it. However after finding the little quirks and preparing the body I think it's ready for a cleaning. It'll be a slow process as I have been working on it in between my own stuff.
I'll certainly post pictures here when I can.
Again, thanks for the picture Rob!
Chris

#19 Biscuitbuilder

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 06:50 AM

I'll say it again; As a caster; I never recommend immersion of any type; I personally use a product by Dupont (Presp-sol) but there are others like it out there....wipe on...let haze; wipe off....these products are designed and formulated to attack and remove silicone based materials; as well as many "wax" products....and have been used by automotive painters for decades. Alot of your cleaning and prep will depend on WHO makes the body....some casters use "slip" agents in their molds; to prolong the mold life; and more readily release the parts....These agents are typically PVA (or now) even PTFE dry spray....YES; PTFE....the same slippery stuff that's put into engine oil friction modifiers (like slick 50)....I personally don't use any type of slip agents when casting parts; and never have any paint issues whatsoever....I just prep-sol, and shoot primer....that being said....the molds ARE made of silicone; and when heated the molds can and do "weep" silicone oil at times; when I have a weepy mold; I simply dust the mold s with Talc...which is back to the reason that I use a product specifically formulated for the removal of silicone based products. Now I am not trying to offend, or anything like that; but you will get 50 different answers, by 50 different posters for this question....everybody has a "special" method of cleaning resin prior to paint. I would not recommend the use of any Lacquer thinner on a resin body; as it may craze the resin; the same way it "eats" polystyrene plastic. When you start buying resin bodies from various sources; you will figure out very quickly WHO uses slips and who doesn't; and adjust your pre-paint regimen accordingly. Just my 2cents...which in todays economy is actually my 1/4 of a cent..................matt


Matt,

Some misinformation here, bordering on "urban rumor". First of all, silicone RTV rubber is NOT the same as the silicone contaminants you fight in an auto body shop. Second, PVA and PTFE aren't the most common mold release/barrier agents in use anymore.

If the resin body has a "slippery" or even slightly greasy feel to it, chances are the caster used a parafin based spray as a mold barrier (yes, that stuff does extend mold life, by preventing much of the leaching of resin chemicals and solvents into the RTV--which in itself is very absorbent of that stuff). The most common variety of this is Price-Driscoll Urethane or Polyester ParFilm. That can be removed by Westleys, any TSP compound (dissolved in water), or Naptha (sold in bulk up to gallons in a lot of stores, this is also known as lighter fluid).

Trust me on this, with 11 years of resin casting experience, I have never seen Westleys (which is trisodium phosphate or TSP), or naptha damage urethane resin or for that matter neither does sodium hydroxide, which is the chief ingredient in Easy-Off oven cleaner, also sold in stores as Lewis Red Devil Lye. Considering that monthly, I had to clean and prep over 2500 resin parts for plating, I think my experience stands for itself.

Lacquer thinners do not "craze" urethane resin, for exactly the same reason none of the solvent-based plastic cements work on it either--they do not affect the surface of the resin in any way. Witness how many modelers use acrylic lacquers on resin bodies with nary a hint of crazing.

What is an absolute no-no on urethane resins are any of the professional grade degreasers, and God forbid, DOT-3 brake fluid. Those will soften a resin body into a rubbery piece of junk very quickly.

Be aware that there are soaps & detergents, and there are soaps and detergents. Many are worse than doing nothing, frankly. For example, one of the worst sources of silicone contamination are dishwashing liquids, particularly those that promise a "clean down to the shine"--silicones abound in those. Many hand soaps have skin softeners/moisturizers in them, which while not silicones, will leave a contaminant on the surface that will produce fisheye. A good bath soap, such as Dial, works great, been using that for years on my personal projects, both resin and styrene.

A good rule of thumb is, "squeaky clean", if your finger wants to "squeak" silently over the freshly cleaned surface, then most likely, that surface is perfectly ready for paint.

Biscuitbuilder

#20 Spike

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 12:46 PM

im sure it was mentioned but didnt wanna read all the replies. i got a resin pop machine from scale modeling by chris. i spray painted it silver and it fished, so i sanded it and tryed it with a brush,and the brush paint fisheyed. i cleaned it with clean thinner,sanded,and washed it with warm water and dish soap. sprayed it silver and it fisheyed a lil bit. so i let it dry and sprayed the blue topcoat on and it fisheyed like a bitch :o . could i dunk it in dot 3 brake fluid and wash with warm water and dish soap again? i need help