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What glue is the best?


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#1 Corvette.Jeff

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:30 AM

I use krazy glue in the pen dispenser for the small stuff with models(like engines,etc...)But what do you guy's use for the big stuff? like frame mod's and stuff? I'm stuck doing a c-notch on a 96' s10 and cant get the parts to dry, I try'ed applying it generously and sparingly, let it dry for hours, but it just doesnt ;) i've got it to dry a few times, but then i'll put the filler on the parts(to add strength) and it will dry on top and be like a bubble gum type of concoction underneath. So what do you guy's use?




Thanks,Jeff

#2 MrObsessive

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:16 AM

To add what Mark said----I like to use Ambroid Pro Weld, but I found it works best if you have what's called a Touch 'N' Flow applicator.

You can check Micro Mark for one of those. I had a problem with Tenax as it seems to evaporate quickly and seemed to lose its potency over time. There's also another liquid glue out there which can bond ABS and styrene-------it's called Bondene.

It's fairly new on the scene and it's good stuff! The only trouble is if you use the applicator, it tends to clog up the tip after a short while.

Forget the brushes that come as part of the caps-------they're thoroughly useless. ;)

I gotta disagree with Mark about Testors Tube Glue. While it does dry thoroughly, it also never stops eating its way through the plastic. I've got models that were built with it from years ago, and one can see the glue spots on the outside of the body where the part was glued on the inside.

Maybe the amount of it is the key..............I'm just not a big fan of it.

One rule of thumb when it comes to putting parts on a finished and painted body is to use NONE OF THE ABOVE! You'll want to get yourself some good 5 min. epoxy--------glue smears are nigh impossible to get out of a paint job, whereas you can get rid of epoxy smears with Windex and wax.

Just my humble 2¢. :o


#3 Harry P.

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 03:35 AM

My 2 cents: Liquid styrene cement is the best product to use when gluing two styrene pieces together, because of the way it works: The glue is actually a solvent that melts styrene... so when properly applied to a joint, the two pieces are literally fused together. And what's great about the liquid stuff (vs. tube glue) is, like Mark mentioned, capillary action. Hold the two parts together and just flow a little liquid cement into the joint. It'll be drawn into the seam nice and neat, no muss, no fuss. It's the perfect glue for gluing parts that have positive locator holes/pins and don't need much adjustment (like engine block halves, rear axle halves, etc.).

#4 elan

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 04:11 AM

I use ACC, tube glue and 5 min. epoxy. Testors liquid is too runny for me. I've got cars I assembled with tube glue years ago and never had problem with it bleeding thru. Like they say "if you think your using the right amount, it's probably too much." I just never finish anything.

#5 Abell82

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 04:38 AM

Bluesman Mark is right about the pens...to a point. The clean excellent, but can also be VERY DANGEROUS. The "glass" they use can be VERY irritating, and hard to detect should you get a splinter in your finger, or heaven forbid,... eye. Use caution when using these.

As for the best glue. I prefer Ambroid Plastic Cement, part #1521. It's similiar to the old Testors tube glue, but a little thicker. The problem is the powers that be at the 2 major wholesellers have discontinued it, or so I am told. Which makes it hard to find. If you try it, make sure that you get no 1521 NOT The "original" Liquid Cement, no. 1511. As no. 1511 (the Original) is not nearly as good. Yet the wholesellers still carry it. (Look for the red tube and white cap!! Orange and Black=ACK!!)

This is the stuff you want, if you want to try the good stuff :lol: ...
Posted Image

Edited by Abell82, 14 July 2009 - 04:51 AM.


#6 E St. Kruiser50

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:43 AM

I think most here who have built for a while will agree that there is no one "Best Glue" to use.
I use these three pictured here as my "Weapons of choice" for specificly differently applications, as a system, and it works well for me.
We all vary a little, as to how our own personal style and tastes dictate.

Here's my choices :lol:
Posted Image

Edited by Treehugger Dave, 14 July 2009 - 10:18 AM.


#7 Modelmartin

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 10:44 AM

I agree with the Treehugger. Try a bunch of them and use what works for your building style.

I use liquid for styrene. I get pint cans from plastics supply places. The stuff is meant for use on acrylic plastics(plexi). I order 2 pints and it usually lasts me 2 or 3 years. It is thin and is pretty powerful. Obviously it is a strong solvent so care must be taken using it. I haven't used tube glue since 1980!! :lol:

I use gap-filling CA glue and some accelerater. My brand is Satellite City Hot Stuff.

I use white glue increasingly, usually Microscale Micro Crystal Clear.

I used to use Five-Minute Epoxy all the time but now I won't touch the stuff. It turns amber after a few years and drys out and loses strength. If I need some real strength I will use JB WELD which is a filled epoxy. It is excellent stuff.

For gluing P/E to painted surfaces I use Tamiya acrylic clear paint.

That's it for me. Four different glues and the Tamiya clear. I haven't used anything else in at least 15 years. I have been building since I was seven years old and all that experience has come down to those choices.

#8 nitrojunkie

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 11:24 AM

As stated above there is no best glue to use.Depending on the application I use the following,Ambroid Proweld,Medium and thin ca,Zip Kicker if needed as a last resort it tends to weaken the joint,Tanax 7,and good old MEK in a touch and flow applicator or an insulin syringe."I inherited them from a death in the family"; yeah thats all I wanted I got funny looks too then I told them what they were going to be used for and the looks got even funnier.At the next family get together I brought a few builds and they all understood.Then I told em to get their kids away from the computers and video games and learn something useful like building something and following instructions.

#9 Chuck Most

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 11:59 AM

Since you are building a frame, I would have to say avoid superglue altogether and go with Tenax or Testors. All the so-called 'instant' superglue I have ever used is junk- as far as being 'instant' it ranges from almost there to way off. I've even had lousy luck using 'kickers'.

I do use gel-type, gap filling superglue quite a bit in my builds, but mostly for small stuff. When it comes to a frame, body, or other large assembly, I go with solvent glue. It's just plain never let me down.

#10 OSLRod

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:34 PM

Ok, Krazy Glue, (& other super glues) aren't going to be what you need for something like that. They have no shear strength for one thing & won't fuse the parts together.

You need one of three different model cements, & I recommend having the first two, (if not all three), on hand:
Testors liquid cement, (black squeeze bottle, blunt needle tip): This is one of my 2 main glues used in building. It’s great for getting the glue on a tab or in a locating hole, or running glue down a seam. It dries relatively fast, (faster than tube glue), but still allows time for alignment & adjustments. This can be applied directly to the parts.

Tenax-7R liquid cement: My other main glue. I use this in conjunction with the Testors liquid cement, usually using the Testors for “first stage” assembly while getting the parts lined up, & the Tenax to get the stronger final bond. It dries faster than the Testors liquid, but you still have a bit of alignment time if needed. To put it on, I have a cheap Testors white handle brush that I keep separate from my paint brushes. Capillary action will let the glue flow into seams & the like as you brush it on. The bottle is tall & narrow, so watch out as it is easy to tip over. I’ve heard that Ambroid liquid cement is as good, but I haven’t tried it yet. Tenax can be found at Hobbytown USA & many local hobby shops, as well as from online vendors. Ambroid is at the same places & many Hobby Lobby stores as well.

Testors, (or any other brand), tube glue. The familiar old orange & white tube of Testors model cement is still a mainstay on my work bench. It’s not used for a lot of things, but what I use it for makes it important for me. I use it for applications where a slower setting time for possible parts adjustment is needed, on suspension parts for example. The key is to NEVER apply it directly to the model. I buy disposable paper plates, (never use styrofoam ones, as the glue eats right through them), & squirt a bit of glue on the plate, cap the glue, & then use a toothpick, (flat or round, depends on what I’m working on), to apply the glue to the parts.

In all three cases, you're filling a seam & fusing the two parts together, which is what you're trying to achieve from the info in your post. The tube glue can even be allowed to "squish" out a bit on each side of the seam, as long as you sand or scrape the excess away once it dries. Super glues are not nearly as good for seam filling, (from my experience), & having no shear strength, really don't work for major modifications like you've mentioned.

Go with the first two cements & get a Nic Sander pen, (electronic stores, & the paint sections of most auto parts stores usually carry these), to remove the glue smears, smudges & spots left behind, & your parts will be firmly attached & clean as a whistle!

Now, depending on the way the frame is molded, you may want to consider drilling attachment holes in each of the pieces you have, using straight pins or small brass pins to hold the parts together, gluing the pins in with super glue, putting the pieces together, & then going over the seams with liquid cement, for even more stength.

:lol:

Where can I find a Nic Sander pen? I bought one from Autozone nine years ago & they stopped selling them. Murray's, Lowe's & Home Depot were no help; all I need are plenty of replacement tips.

#11 Clay

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:35 PM

While everyone has posted some very good glues, I havent used them, I use Loctite Super glue that you can get in walmart. Most time it bonds instantly, like to my fingers. but there is a 1 in 10 chance that it would take a while to bond. I don't use the Testors tube glue any more.

#12 VW Dave

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 06:03 PM

I mainly use Zap-a-Gap super glue, and I sprinkle baking soda over it while wet for heavier structural bonds(the kind that don't show). Devcon and Permatex 5-minute epoxy are another couple of my favorites.

#13 Art Anderson

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 05:59 AM

I agree with the Treehugger. Try a bunch of them and use what works for your building style.

I use liquid for styrene. I get pint cans from plastics supply places. The stuff is meant for use on acrylic plastics(plexi). I order 2 pints and it usually lasts me 2 or 3 years. It is thin and is pretty powerful. Obviously it is a strong solvent so care must be taken using it. I haven't used tube glue since 1980!! ;)

I use gap-filling CA glue and some accelerater. My brand is Satellite City Hot Stuff.

I use white glue increasingly, usually Microscale Micro Crystal Clear.

I used to use Five-Minute Epoxy all the time but now I won't touch the stuff. It turns amber after a few years and drys out and loses strength. If I need some real strength I will use JB WELD which is a filled epoxy. It is excellent stuff.

For gluing P/E to painted surfaces I use Tamiya acrylic clear paint.

That's it for me. Four different glues and the Tamiya clear. I haven't used anything else in at least 15 years. I have been building since I was seven years old and all that experience has come down to those choices.



Andy,

While you have it very much right on the mark here, others have made some good suggestions as well. For starters, you make mention of the use of an accelerator for CA glue (Super Glue, Krazy Glue, and all the various brands) so allow me to add a bit to your statements:

CA glue, or ACC as it is sometimes termed, does not "dry" to do its job, rather it crystalizes, by means of pressure between the two opposing surfaces being glued, or by the addition of some chemical that triggers the crystalization (chemical accelerants seem to work the best, but ordinary baking soda works, and a lot of modelers swear by it--not me, I prefer accelerators). CA glue is CA glue, ever since Eastman Kodak's original patent expired in the early 1980's. Essentially, all packagers of the stuff get it from pretty much the same tank car loads, the only differences being in viscosity, and whether or not a flexible or hard cured glue is desired. Personally, I've used nothing but Goldberg SuperJet since that medium viscosity CA was introduced in 1985, for two reasons. One, SuperJet tends to be the freshest product out there, being as it is the CA glue of choice in the radio control hobby, the turnover of the stuff on the shelves is probably greater than all the other brands put together. Second, Goldberg uses a bottle that takes a readily available (in hobby shops as well as mail order or online) series of polypropylene gluing tips, my favorite one being a flexible needle tip that is about 2" long, and can be trimmed back with an Xacto knife when the tip gets irretrievably clogged--and they are inexpensive as well. For accelerator, I happened on Bob Smith Models CA accelerator about 25yrs ago, and won't even look at any other brand--their accelerator is the only one I have found that absolutely will not attack styrene, nor paint, glue, even decals. In addition, Bob Smith accelerator absolutely prevents the "fogging" that CA's produce when they outgass upon crystalizing, just soak the glue joint and the surrounding area with the stuff from their "spritzing" push pump spray bottle. Bob Smith accelerator comes labeled for whatever hobby shop stocks it, a silver label with the hobby shop name on it. Their bottles are clear brown, both the push pump sprays, and the 8-oz refilling bottles, easy to spot, and for what the stuff is capable of, rather inexpensive as well. I've used this CA glue and this accelerator for years, for nearly all assembly, and I swear by it.

For assembly in styrene, where long seams, and certainly where I am adding long strips of trim sections to a body shell, I like the same liquid cement as you allude to. Nearly all plastics shops fabricating clear acrylic use WeldOn #3 liquid cement, which behaves exactly like either Tenax 7R or Ambroid Superweld. This type of liquid cement is pure solvent, no binders whatsoever, unlike Testors liquid cement, which is very much a thinned out version of their tube glue--Testors liquid does have a residue, and being a far slower evaporating liquid than WeldOn, Tenax or Ambroid Superweld, it has far more time to craze any styrene surface it lands on. For applying Weldon, I have been using a synthetic "liner" brush, the same thing that folk artists use to paint long lines and such. I simply trimmed off the tip, so that it is square, which allows this brush to hold a pretty fair quantity WeldOn #3, and I apply the stuff in a brush stroke alongside say, a strip of styrene I might use to create a chrome spear down the side of a body shell. The one caution with this stuff is that it dries too fast to allow application to either or both surfaces, and then try to stick them together, so touching a brush to the joint, allowing the liquid to flow into the joint is key here. As for the surrounding surface, once dried, I find no crazing whatsoever on styrene, just a slightly shinier surface where the brush passed over it. WeldOn #3 is available in much larger quantities than Tenax or Ambroid, which makes the price of it dirt cheap--my last 8-oz can of the stuff cost me just $10, compare that to what, now almost $7 for a 3/4 oz bottle of Tenax! To use the stuff, I simply decant it from the larger can into an old Tenax bottle by means of commonly available glass eyedroppers, which are available dirt cheap in just about any CVS, Walgreens or other similar drugstores.

For gluing dissimilar materials, such as wood to plastic, metal to plastic, I often use 5 minute epoxy, but there I am particular, Devcon 5-min always gets the call here. For metal to metal, even metal to styrene where strength is an issue, JB Weld, the black iron bearing variety is all that need be said, in my opinion.

I've not owned a tube of Testors glue in so long, I don't know if I would recognize that stuff anymore.

Art

#14 FujimiLover

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 07:51 AM

I use CA glue, and I use Model Masters Liquid Cement in their handy little black triangular bottles. Except, sometimes their bottles tend to leek at the bottom of the needle.
Still, best glue I think.................

#15 E St. Kruiser50

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:22 AM

someone had mentioned using MEK at some point. i used the same thing for a short time, i was able to buy a gallon of it at cost from my own paint store. for awhile i simply poured it into an old Testors tall thinner jar and used it just like any other liquid cement. the problem with MEK is the fumes, it's quite strong. at one point i tipped the whole jar over on my desk and it ate everything in sight that was plastic, even things not in direct contact, remember i mentioned strong fumes :blink: model parts became one with the desktop and in general i had a huge mess. i put that stuff out in the garage and that's where it's stayed. it did come out again when i prepped the flexible plastic fender flares on my Jeep Wrangler for paint. worked like a dream in that case.

it's interesting that no one else has mentioned using Tamiya's liquid cements. i have a bottle that i use for glueing side trim or small detailed parts such as styrene nuts and bolts to frames. it's not as "hot" or fast evaporating as some of the other liquids, the bottle also includes a very nice applicator brush.

Dave


Uuuuu Dave..... MEK - METHYL ETHYL KETONE IS A KILLER!!! :blink: B) :o
SO IS TOLUENE in Testors glue. Testors used to have MEK in it too.

Both were used as cleaning solvents at one time, probably still are, and evaporate quickly, but they'll kill you.
They don't just smell bad or have strong fumes - THEY KILL.

Please get rid of that stuff and find something safer by reading the contents on the bottle or doing a little research to keep yourself safe - PLEASE.

#16 Ddms

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:54 PM

Gorilla Super Glue has become a mainstay for me. I'm not talking about ordinary Gorilla Glue here, but Gorilla Super Glue. They advertise it as impact resistant, which it is. It's a lot less brittle than ordinary CA and it seems to dry quicker. Hold any joint for 15 seconds and it's set. Unlike other CA, it has "give." I've found it to be especially good for small parts where I've only used canopy glue before.

#17 RyanSilva

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 12:56 AM

Yes, MEK has strong fumes, Yes it will make you feel funny if you smell it real good, But it is NOT gonna kill you in general model usage. Naturally you should use it outside. skin contact and ingestion is where it will get you the most problems, and potentially kill you by attacking the lungs. It attacks the nervous system too, Ive used it for years..but only outside on my porch, works better out there.

#18 nitrojunkie

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 10:07 AM

Yes MEK is not good; but then again if you get right down to it nothing we use is.Lacquer thinner while a less aggressive solvent still attacks the central nervous system as do most all solvents.The key is ventillation.I also use the Tamiya liquid as well as epoxies.Look at most epoxy labels or resin labels they usually say thin and clean up with acetone thats pretty nasty stuff too but our wifes have at one time or another all used it to strip their fingernails and toenails of polish.Look what it soes to the oil content of your skin.

Ever seen the MSDS on water?If in contact with it long enough it will eat anything or kill anything..Just a little something to ponder.

#19 Foxer

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 12:09 PM

doing clean up of the glue spots with the Nic Sander, (a similar & apparently easier to find product is the Prep Pen sanding pen).

Here's a link to Harbor Freight's page for the Prep Pen:
http://www.harborfre...temnumber=97292
Here's a pic of the Prep Pen. I'm still looking for a pic of the Nic Sander. It looks a bit different, but they both work identically.
Posted Image
I don't know if the Prep Pen has replacable tips like the Nic Sander does, but either one works wonders.


This was very interesting to me. I can think of countless times I wanted a small round "sandpaper on a stick"! ehhe

So the common name is GLASS FIBRE PEN and these are a few links I came on .. used in many industries it seems.
Glass Fiber Pen 1
Glass Fiber Pen 2
Glass Fiber Pen 3

Seems that are all in the UK though. I get the feeling they are probably not sold in the US because of the tiny fibers they leave and our slap-happy lawyers.

#20 KENNEDYJR

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 03:15 AM

Posted Image