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Show/Contest Judges - Touch Or No Touch?


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#101 LoneWolf15

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:55 AM

Rob ,
The reason that I started using the mirrors ? The subject matter at hand ! If an individual claimed X amount of detail on the chassis , the judges wanted to see this , hence , picking up the model came into vogue ! The mirrored base was my way of combating it .

Thankfully , as I mentioned before , the handling of the models is now passé in the shows that we attend , which are quite a few . Unfortunately , come August , My builds will once again face the club handed foolishness of the National's judges . The fact that the one inch square " Do not touch box " is checked , never seems to penetrate that particular mentality ....

I can relate to the " Trophy hound / hoer aspect , as I've seen many go by the wayside due to the implications involved . It's just not worth the hassle for them . How about this one .... An individual being booed when their name was announced as having placed first in several classes at a show ! When confronted as to why they acted in such a manner after the fact , they stated , " Because you always win ! "

Unreal !

Edited by LoneWolf15, 12 March 2014 - 08:21 AM.


#102 charlie8575

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:05 AM

At MassCar, at least, our general rule has been if the builder asks us not to touch, or only to pick up a model in a certain manner, the judges do their best to honor the builder's request. While it might make judging a little more difficult, we want people to be happy, so we do our best to honor their requests.

 

Charlie Larkin



#103 Scale-Master

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:23 AM

An individual being booed when their name was announced as having placed first in several classes at a show ! When confronted as to why they acted in such a manner after the fact , they stated , " Because you always win ! "


It has happened to me. Wonder if you were at the same show?

#104 Terry Sumner

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:05 AM

they stated , " Because you always win ! "

 

LMAO.... that has NEVER happened to me! 



#105 LoneWolf15

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

It has happened to me. Wonder if you were at the same show?



Nope ! Because I was the individual that got booed ....... Lmao !

Not that I " Always win ! " I didn't ! But that was their perception . So , to avoid the drama , I only enter that particular show every couple of years .

#106 LoneWolf15

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:44 AM

LMAO.... that has NEVER happened to me! 


Ha ! Don't even attempt to sell yourself short in that department , ya geriatric old goat ! You produce some very fine work on a regular basis ! You just need to expand your playground boundaries and get outta New England every once in a while ..... Speaking of which , NNL East this year ?

#107 ZTony8

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:25 AM

That makes perfect sense to me. But it is not what I was taking away from your first post regarding where that Chevy placed, (or didn't place...). It should take more than just a shiny finish to be competitive, especially one with a flaw.
 


Some entrants would rather risk a lower "score" than risk damage to their model at the hands of another.
But at the same time, if you display your model properly the judges can usually see all around it without need to handle it.
If it is marked "Do not touch", that direction should be respected and followed by all.


So why should an entrant be defacto disqualified from competition and relegated to a "Display Only-do not judge category" for not wanting his model handled? (I don't get that mentality.)


Most shows covered by the magazines now put cards by the models indicating they would like to photograph them. It is up to the builder to bring them to the booth or give permission to the photographer to handle the model.

If an entrant chooses "Display only" it's their choice.This mostly occurs with past show winners anyway.We don't force anyone to have(or not have) their entry judged.

If judges cannot properly evaluate the work done to an area of an entry then the entry may not place as highly as it might if all the work could be seen.Using a mirror (and/or maybe lights) doesn't always guarantee being able to accurately see the amount or quality of work on an entry.If we can't see it,we can't judge it.As long as an entrant is fine with not getting a deserved award or places lower in a class because of the inability to evaluate the entry properly,all well and good.Just don't complain later that the entry wasn't fairly judged.

I had a similar situation years ago at a real car show.My station was judging some safety items.A very low miles '64 Plymouth came through.We asked him to work the wipers.He refused,stating that he didn't want to put rubber on the windshield.We couldn't tell if the wipers worked or not so we marked them "inoperative" and he lost points.



#108 highway

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:33 AM

OK, my two cents on the subject of touching my models at a show for ANY reason, be it to be judged, photographed, or moved for any other reason such as table space, etc... 

 

TOUCH MY MODEL AND I BREAK YOUR FINGERS!!!

 

At most of the contests I have attended I never have had a problem, and the shows I've judged have been the same way, because they had a strict "NO TOUCH" rule. If we needed a model touched for any reason, we found the owner and had them move it, simple as that. I feel it should be like that no matter what, there are ways to find the owner and, for example, a magazine wants pictures, leave a note with the model for the owner to bring it to the photography area or find the owner and ask them to move it there. 

 

If it comes down to displaying or seeing hidden details, then make sure they can be seen if you want them seen. I learned at an early age, a simple mirror no larger than the model (for those who like to throw a tizzy about bases) and the old square clear tubes toothbrushes came in at the time were perfect to show off the underside of a car. I even won one show in particular just because the judges could see under the car and the detail I was displaying and the other model another teenager had they could not. How do I know for sure that was why I walked off with the first place for that one?? I overheard the judge telling the other kid's mom while she was throwing a soccer mom tizzy fit why her son's great model was beat by mine, and the judge said to her "because we could see underneath his, and we could see that his driveshaft was even painted the correct color". For the record, it was a NASCAR and the driveshaft was painted the correct white.

 

 

For at least the contest at the Detroit Autorama next year we're considering banning display bases.There's some debate as to how much the display should be part of the entered model(excepting dioramas,of course).The current feeling is that the base isn't part of the model and should be ignored for judging purposes.

Picking up a truck and trailer?If they can be separated for judging,they will be separated.

Underside detail and craftmanship can be the difference between models being awarded or not if the other parts of the models are equally well done.An excellent example is a '39 Chevy sedan delivery entered in the Street Rod class in last weekend's Autorama model contest here in Detroit.This entry had a beautiful fogged blue paint job(and except for an unfortunate scratch in one front fender it would have been awarded Best Paint) but there was no extra detailing done with painting or parts to the model.It was basically box stock.It didn't even place in class judging.

 

So, are you saying that my tractor trailer should be separated when I want it judged as one unit just because it can be separated.



#109 lordairgtar

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:38 PM

 

 

 

I guess you missed the part where I stated that IF I had wanted him to take photos of my models, I would have taken them to the photo booth myself.  I didn't. But, he somehow felt it was their right to pick my models up,carry them and photograph them anyway. What if they had dropped one of them and busted it all to pieces? I guess it would have just been my tough luck, huh?

At Milwaukee NNL, the photog puts a little round sticker on your entry sheet notifying they want to do pics of your model. You see this and you take your model to the photo booth. If you don't see the sticker or you don't want a pic for the mag, well, that is your choice.



#110 Scale-Master

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:38 PM

If an entrant chooses "Display only" it's their choice.This mostly occurs with past show winners anyway.We don't force anyone to have(or not have) their entry judged.


That's not what I took away from what you had said earlier:
 

if you enter a judged contest and don't want your model picked up or moved for photography put it in a "Display Only-do not judge" category or mark it as such on the entry form.


Still, I don't see why any contestant should have to forgo competition to protect his entry from being handled.

It's not a choice of being forced to have their entry judged; that's the point of entering a contest.

If it is a past winner, it should not even be allowed to be entered in competition.

#111 ZTony8

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:02 AM

OK, my two cents on the subject of touching my models at a show for ANY reason, be it to be judged, photographed, or moved for any other reason such as table space, etc... 

 

TOUCH MY MODEL AND I BREAK YOUR FINGERS!!!

 

At most of the contests I have attended I never have had a problem, and the shows I've judged have been the same way, because they had a strict "NO TOUCH" rule. If we needed a model touched for any reason, we found the owner and had them move it, simple as that. I feel it should be like that no matter what, there are ways to find the owner and, for example, a magazine wants pictures, leave a note with the model for the owner to bring it to the photography area or find the owner and ask them to move it there. 

 

If it comes down to displaying or seeing hidden details, then make sure they can be seen if you want them seen. I learned at an early age, a simple mirror no larger than the model (for those who like to throw a tizzy about bases) and the old square clear tubes toothbrushes came in at the time were perfect to show off the underside of a car. I even won one show in particular just because the judges could see under the car and the detail I was displaying and the other model another teenager had they could not. How do I know for sure that was why I walked off with the first place for that one?? I overheard the judge telling the other kid's mom while she was throwing a soccer mom tizzy fit why her son's great model was beat by mine, and the judge said to her "because we could see underneath his, and we could see that his driveshaft was even painted the correct color". For the record, it was a NASCAR and the driveshaft was painted the correct white.

 

 

 

So, are you saying that my tractor trailer should be separated when I want it judged as one unit just because it can be separated

Yes,unless they're permanently fastened together and/or you indicate that they shouldn't be picked up.Tractor/trailers would always be judged as one build unless the entrant decides to split the build into Heavy Commercial for the tractor and Miscellaneous for the trailer. Then the two units would be in different spots in the contest area.I'll say this-Trailers are a special case.Underside details would be easier to spot because of the clearance at the bottom of the model and the relative simplicity of the details.Interior details of the trailer(if any) would be aided by a removable roof panel.Tractors are unwieldy to lift because of their size-long,tall,and often flexible in their middle.So we try not to pick them up if we don't need to pick them up.


#112 ZTony8

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:27 AM

That's not what I took away from what you had said earlier:
 

Still, I don't see why any contestant should have to forgo competition to protect his entry from being handled.

It's not a choice of being forced to have their entry judged; that's the point of entering a contest.

If it is a past winner, it should not even be allowed to be entered in competition.

You don't have forego competition.Just realize that if the judges can't properly evaluate all the details of your entry it may not place as highly as it could if all the details could be judged.If you want to take that risk it's up to you.How important is that trophy or kit awarded as your prize?

Past winners are allowed in the contests around here.It's the entrant's call as to what class they enter.That would depend on how much the entrant wants another award for the model.The former Best in Show winners,for example,often end up in Display Only.We had that situation last weekend when Steve Perry brought his two former Best in Show winners,the Prock & Howell Willys and the Peters & Frank Freight Train and had them in Display Only.