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#21 MikeMc

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:26 AM

The Zimmers are a ripoff of the "original" Neo Classic designed by Brooks Stevens....twenty years later

Posted Image


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Corvette power trains with V/W turnsignals and tailights

#22 Harry P.

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:42 AM

The Zimmers are a ripoff of the "original" Neo Classic designed by Brooks Stevens....


Which in itself was a ripoff of the real classic car designs of the 30s... :lol: so no credit to Brooks Stevens for being original... :lol:

#23 MikeMc

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:24 AM

Which in itself was a ripoff of the real classic car designs of the 30s... ;) so no credit to Brooks Stevens for being original... :lol:



But supplied a car with all american parts to a "new segment" market and employeed many in the Milwaukee area...He also did design many of the Stude classics B) B)

"The idea was a "contemporary classic," a new car that looked like the Mercedes SSK that Stevens once owned. "I wanted this to be a replica [for those] who could not play in the collector's market even then [and for those who wanted] a "two-way classic,' something that you can be sure will get you back home..." Stevens duly rendered a dashing neoclassic roadster body, and a Lark Daytona convertible chassis was delivered to his Milwaukee studios with power front-disc brakes and supercharged, 290-horsepower Studebaker 289 V-8. The result, labeled "Studebaker SS," was completed in just six weeks by Stevens and his sons, David and William. ;)

No sooner did it reach New York than Studebaker backed out. A "contemporary classic," said company officials, conflicted with their newly embraced image of the "common-sense car." Undeterred, Stevens arranged to exhibit the SS in a separate space. Luckily, he wound up across from a hot-dog stand, but the cycle-fendered two-seater would have drawn crowds anyway. It was, in fact, a sensation, and dozens of inquiries from would-be owners prompted the Stevens sons to form SS Automobiles in August. By 1966, they had built 56 copies of a mildly modified version bearing the Stevens-registered name Excalibur and also called SS.

Studebaker, meanwhile, had ceased building cars at last, thus ending the availability of its 289 V-8, but General Motors friends Ed Cole and "Bunkie" Knudsen agreed to provide the Stevens family with Chevrolet 327s in 300-bhp Corvette tune. This change made the lithe 2100-pound Excalibur a blistering performer."





http://auto.howstuff...m/excalibur.htm

Edited by MIKE THE MANIAC, 17 June 2011 - 11:25 AM.


#24 Harry P.

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:10 PM

"The idea was a "contemporary classic," a new car that looked like the Mercedes SSK that Stevens once owned.


Yeah, I get that. But to complain that Zimmer ripped off Brooks Stevens make no sense, when Brooks Stevens himself ripped off Mercedes to begin with!

Why is Brooks Stevens' Mercedes ripoff any more legitimate than Zimmer's Brooks Stevens ripoff? :lol:

#25 MikeMc

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:47 PM

Yeah, I get that. But to complain that Zimmer ripped off Brooks Stevens make no sense, when Brooks Stevens himself ripped off Mercedes to begin with!

Why is Brooks Stevens' Mercedes ripoff any more legitimate than Zimmer's Brooks Stevens ripoff? :blink:



Because Brooks came up with the Idea......as I lived 4 houses away I would say He just wanted the car to make it BACK home without the wrecker saw more than one classic come back on the hook. Brooks eventually opened up a museum in Mequon WI....



sorta like the PT Cruiser and Chevy HHR.....Old looking...."New" market.


The rumors were that the lawsuits between these two put them both belly up....I just think it was because of the taillights being sooooo ugly

Edited by MIKE THE MANIAC, 17 June 2011 - 01:55 PM.


#26 Harry P.

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 02:26 PM

Because Brooks came up with the Idea......as I lived 4 houses away...


It doesn't matter if you lived in the same house as he did! A ripoff is a ripoff. Zimmer ripped off Stevens. Stevens ripped of Mercedes. No difference.

#27 Modelmartin

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:12 PM

But Brooks was the first! B) I always thought the Excalibur was atrocious. It was the original pimp-mobile, gold chain express. The weird thing is that he was a DESIGNER and he came up with that!

#28 sjordan2

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 05:06 AM

As I recall, the Excalibur SS was considered to be pretty cool in its day. You can still get your hands on a 1/12 kit version. In 1965, the Alfa Romeo factory even issued a "homage" semi-replica of its 30s 1750 Gran Sport (also available in large-scale/low detail kit form) for those who wanted a reliable retro classic as described by Stevens (though, with modern Giulia running gear, "reliable" is always a concern with Alfas).

I don't see any "rip-off" intentions behind those or any other kit car or manufactured replica that's come along, from the Porsche 550 Spyder to the 8/10 Cord, McLaren, Cobras, etc. Perhaps the biggest "rip-off" problem was with the Miami Vice Daytona Spyder, which got the manufacturers in LOTS of trouble with Ferrari, and another builder of a 250 GTO replica was similarly sued.

#29 Harry P.

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 05:24 AM

I don't see any "rip-off" intentions behind those or any other kit car or manufactured replica that's come along, from the Porsche 550 Spyder to the 8/10 Cord, McLaren, Cobras, etc. Perhaps the biggest "rip-off" problem was with the Miami Vice Daytona Spyder, which got the manufacturers in LOTS of trouble with Ferrari, and another builder of a 250 GTO replica was similarly sued.


No, the "rip-off" angle doesn't apply to a replica, because obviously a replica is... well... a replica. A copy of the original.

But taking a Mercedes SSK roadster and pretty much copying it and then selling it as something else (an "Excalibur") is a rip-off of Mercedes. There was hardy anything "original" in the Excalibur, it was obviously derived from the earlier Mercedes. So my point was, if Zimmer stole from Stevens, as Mike implied, then surely Stevens stole from Mercedes, and his "design" is no more worthy or valid or original than Zimmers' "classic" cars were.

#30 MikeMc

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 08:38 AM

YOUR ALWAYS CORRECT HARRY....:)


If you knew the real story...you would not defend the Zimmer family.........


I really do not care if you like or dislike the car..you missed my point as always and wish to argue....


" So my point was, if Zimmer stole from Stevens, as Mike implied, then surely Stevens stole from Mercedes"


It was sold as a NEO CLASSIC......NOT A MERCEDES.......The Zimmer was made to take customers away from the market that Excaliber found and filled,

On the other hand the Excaliber was not made to take away Mercedes customers.

Edited by MIKE THE MANIAC, 18 June 2011 - 08:47 AM.


#31 Modelmartin

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 08:40 AM

Why waste energy arguing about trashy cars?

#32 Zoom Zoom

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 08:52 AM

Why waste energy arguing about trashy cars?


Amazing, isn't it? :) :P :lol:

#33 Harry P.

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 08:54 AM

Why waste energy arguing about trashy cars?


Because it's fun?

;)

#34 Harry P.

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 09:02 AM

YOUR ALWAYS CORRECT HARRY....;)


If you knew the real story...you would not defend the Zimmer family.........


I really do not care if you like or dislike the car..you missed my point as always and wish to argue....


" So my point was, if Zimmer stole from Stevens, as Mike implied, then surely Stevens stole from Mercedes"


It was sold as a NEO CLASSIC......NOT A MERCEDES.......The Zimmer was made to take customers away from the market that Excaliber found and filled,

On the other hand the Excaliber was not made to take away Mercedes customers.


You may be right as far as "intent" and who wanted to take who's customers away (trying to snag the competition's customers away is how business operates!) but that's not my point. You implied that Stevens taking his design directly from an earlier Mercedes was legitimate, but Zimmer doing the same thing to Stevens was underhanded somehow. As far as I can see, Stevens stole his "design" from Mercedes the same way that Zimmer stole their "design" from Stevens... who stole it from Mercedes in the first place! Ripping off someone else's work is ripping off someone else's work, doesn't matter what the intent was.

PS: Any of you in the peanut gallery who want to take precious time out of your very busy schedule of doing "Important Things" in order to comment on how silly it is to argue the point may do so now... :rolleyes:

#35 Harry P.

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 09:38 AM

I will now.

My gripe is that both Stevens and Zimmer strayed so far from the class and style of the original, and drove their blechmobiles off the cliff crashing into crassville.


No argument there. ;)

#36 Zoom Zoom

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 10:03 AM

I will now.

My gripe is that both Stevens and Zimmer strayed so far from the class and style of the original, and drove their blechmobiles off the cliff crashing into crassville.


Ed Zachary.

The original Excalibur wasn't the disgusting neoclassic that emerged still wearing the name long after the SSK re-creation. That others were compelled to also join in the fray of obnoxious neoclassics...well, that's some pretty head-shaking herd mentality for you!

And to pour salt into the wound, what is left of Zimmer is nothing like the car that was featured this week. Straight back to crassville they went. ;)

#37 sjordan2

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 10:48 AM

Ed Zachary.

The original Excalibur wasn't the disgusting neoclassic that emerged still wearing the name long after the SSK re-creation. That others were compelled to also join in the fray of obnoxious neoclassics...well, that's some pretty head-shaking herd mentality for you!

And to pour salt into the wound, what is left of Zimmer is nothing like the car that was featured this week. Straight back to crassville they went. :blink:


B) :D :D
I wonder how many others know the "Ed Zachary"joke.

#38 ChrisR

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 03:42 AM

I have seen a photo of this car long ago but could not remember the name.

#39 Jim Gibbons

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 06:54 AM

I sold VWs from '85 -'87, and I remember seeing pictures of the Quicksilver in one of the automotive magazines of that time. My friend and I got a good laugh out of it. I do have to admit that's it's one of the more tolerable Zimmer designs, but I agree; that rear end is pretty awful.

A little anecdote on the first series Excaliburs; they actually looked decent, and appeared closest to the MB SSK. We lived on Long Island at the time, and dad had a '65 Mercedes 190D. We were on the Southern State Parkway, and we were passed by an early Excalibur. The driver must have seen me staring with my jaw dropped, and that he was next to a real MB (which were fairly uncommon at the time,) as he waved as he passed. I had the 1/32 Pyro SSK model at the time, so I was mesmerized. I recently got an original Pyro SSK off Ebay for a song (under $10), and hope to start a WIP topic on it soon.