127 replies to this topic

[Michigan Madman]

And the Dodge Journey is being sold in Europe. Sort of...

[Rob Hall]

And the Dodge Journey is being sold in Europe. Sort of...

Funny thing is IIRC it was sold in Europe briefly a couple years ago as a Dodge when they tried marketing Dodges in a few European countries...

[Joe Handley]

Wonder if Fiat will sell any more than Dodge, those things are almost like hens teeth around here.

[moparmagiclives]

IIRC Tom, the Magnum didn't really exist in Europe and The 300 Estate never existed here. I think the Magnum might have been an experiment to see if wagons would sell here without harming the 300's name. I'm not surprised that the Charger parts would fit (wouldn't be surprised if the Challenger would too.)

Have you seen any of the artist renderings of what might be the new magnum overseas...pretty sharp. alpar had some I think it was, some photo shop shots. I'm not sure why everyone is jumpin on the band wagon of "they're fiats not mopars", mopars havent been their own r&d since the early 80's. They have been in bed with someone or the other for a very long time. If using some one elses tech thats proven ( I use that term lightly.... see the 80's comment) then why not build off that, Not fail from scratch. I'm pretty exited about where "Fiat" is taking this copmany.

[martinfan5]

Have you seen any of the artist renderings of what might be the new magnum overseas...pretty sharp. alpar had some I think it was, some photo shop shots. I'm not sure why everyone is jumpin on the band wagon of "they're fiats not mopars", mopars havent been their own r&d since the early 80's. They have been in bed with someone or the other for a very long time. If using some one elses tech thats proven ( I use that term lightly.... see the 80's comment) then why not build off that, Not fail from scratch. I'm pretty exited about where "Fiat" is taking this copmany.

I am too kinda of, I think this is just the beginning of them trying to cross bread the fiat / European car designs in the states,

[Michigan Madman]

Funny thing is IIRC it was sold in Europe briefly a couple years ago as a Dodge when they tried marketing Dodges in a few European countries...

I seem to remember reading about those- some were even available with diesels. Wonder if the Fiat will sell better, being Fiat's reptuation for, ah, quality, is more fresh in the minds of Europeans than Americans.

[martinfan5]

Well since its all going under the Dodge/Chrysler name here, I dont think its going to make a difference to most of the car buying public about Fiats lack of quality in the past

[Michigan Madman]

Well since its all going under the Dodge/Chrysler name here, I dont think its going to make a difference to most of the car buying public about Fiats lack of quality in the past

I meant selling the Dodge as a Fiat in Europe. I think Americans have pretty much all but forgotten about Fiat's woes- the 500 seems to be selling pretty well over here. But in Europe (where the Fiat Freemont is being sold) the wounds are quite a bit more fresh. I'm just wondering if selling it as a Fiat when trying to sell it as a Dodge didn't work so well will pan out.

[martinfan5]

I meant selling the Dodge as a Fiat in Europe. I think Americans have pretty much all but forgotten about Fiat's woes- the 500 seems to be selling pretty well over here. But in Europe (where the Fiat Freemont is being sold) the wounds are quite a bit more fresh. I'm just wondering if selling it as a Fiat when trying to sell it as a Dodge didn't work so well will pan out.

Ok now that makes sense , i am not sure if the Europeans really know about the lack of quality of dodge of the past, but then again maybe they do. But there still is the image that US cars lack quality.

[gray07]

It looks kind of like my moms new chevy cruze.

[Olskoolrodder]

Fiat Dart.

Shorten that!

[FASTBACK340]

I just tasted a little vomit in the back of my throat....

[moparmagiclives]

I just tasted a little vomit in the back of my throat....

Really? Why? Was the Dart that great of a car 30+ years ago? Or do you just not like the body style that much?

[Peter Lombardo]

Like it or hate it.............it can't be worse than the Caliber.

That poor thing was a "stillbirth".

This Dart is falling into a very crowded market with tough competition from every direction. I commend Chrysler for at least making what appears to be a modern looking stylish compact car.

Many of you guys are jumping all over the Charger...but Chrysler did not want to vacate the Police car market since the Ford Crown Vic was as old as Model A, and GM had no rear drive vehicle so it was a good choice, in my opinion, to produce a vehicle that fit the law enforcement community could embrace. I know, many cops decried the shortcomings of the vehicle, but it did find a home in many police forces. Here in NJ, many towns use them and they are holding up well.

I agree that the last version (the 1st 4 door version) was pretty "dogish" looking but it was forced to look like it did because it was forced to share the 300's chassis and interior dimensions. I think the new one is actually a respectable looking vehicle. I don't want one, but I think they look better than their predecessor.

[martinfan5]

I am really liking the new design of the charger more and more, I asked for one for christmas , but that idea was shot down rather quickly

[Michigan Madman]

I agree that the last version (the 1st 4 door version) was pretty "dogish" looking but it was forced to look like it did because it was forced to share the 300's chassis and interior dimensions. I think the new one is actually a respectable looking vehicle. I don't want one, but I think they look better than their predecessor.

I'm starting to warm up to the second-gen 'new' Charger- I think it's way better looking than the '06 style. I had a Michigan State Trooper Charger in front of me last night (NOT behind me for a change!) and the taillamp design is very cool, especially at night. I'd agree- I don't want one, but they are a marked improvement over their immediate predecessor. I'm even beginning to warm up to this Dart- it's being posted quite a few places I frequent online. And in the end I don't think it matters if I (or anyone else) likes how it looks or not, I just hope it does well. Dodge needs a hit, other than the specialty versions of the Charger and the Challenger, there really isn't much to get excited about. Maybe a compact that looks a little more agressive than its competitors will be what makes it work.

[caine440]

I do not know about the Dart name but the car looks good and is needed in the line up.
As for all the Charger bashing. I love my 2006 Charger R/T. It is fast, fun and a great car. I get plenty of complements and stares. It out performs and stands out in a sea of boring honda and toyota toasters.
Do I wish it was a 2 door from the start, sure, but they needed a full sized sedan and it is a good one.
I am hoping my next car will be a Challenger SRT but until then my Charger makes me darn happy.

To each their own and enjoy what you drive.

[Curtis v.]

I'm too lazy to look through all the pages so im not sure if this has been said, so sorry if it has. I think that if dodge needs a small compact car, that this would definately be the one, i wont argue with that. But i dispise the fact that it has the "Dart" nameplate on it. It is probably meant to sell the car but it doesnt have the "mean looks" of the original darts, IMO. It looks foreighn. I know thats because, well, it pretty much is but i think that they should have been creative and come up with a new name that would sell the car. It reminds me of the Ford Flex and how in its concept stages had the "Fairlane" nameplate on it. I was a full size SUV while the fairlane (in the 60's at least) was an intermediate, family sadan/coupe. So once agian, sorry if it has been said but, i think it should have a different name cause it kind of soils the "Dart" name, IMO.

[Peter Lombardo]

You need to remember something about Chrysler, which is substantially different than Ford or GM. Ford and GM, even though there has been changes in top level management, have always been solid autonomous car companies with a long line and heritage to draw upon.

Chrysler on the other hand has had many owners, management teams and design philosophies to deal with. The "long-line" of heritage that Ford and GM have, has been cut, smashed and forever destroyed at Chrysler.

There was Chrysler Corporation up through the 1970's with the heritage of names, brands and model types. It changed over in the mid-70's with the gas crunch, Japanese made econo-box models and the loss of their "Muscle Car" bravado that nearly lead to their death.

Lee Iaccoca, fresh from his firing at Ford after repeated "run-ins" with Henry Ford II, came aboard and changed Chrysler's direction , yet again, to American made front wheel drive platform cars and introduced the Mini-van to America. His successes lead to the much publicized, repayment of the Government loan guarantee before it was due. Then the purchase of and the amalgamation of AMC into Chrysler had a profound change in the entire philosophy at Chrysler bring the Jeep product line under the Chrysler banner. Many of the lead designers and engineers of Renault, who were part of the AMC team came over to Chrysler. These were the guys who spearheaded the LH platform which, not only saved Chrysler, but propelled them to the top of the pile back in the mid 90's. The "New" Chrysler was on the cover of Forbes magazine being lauded as the star of the American auto industry. Flush with cash and solid sales winners in every class of auto, Chrysler was a perfect target for financial rape.....and Bob Eaton, the new top guy who replaced Iaccoca, saw Daimler as just the guys to pull off the heist.

Eaton, prior to this, was the head of GM Europe and was chosen over Bob Lutz, the President of Chrysler at the time, to replace Iaccoca as the Chairman of the Board. Of course, Lutz, a "car guys, car guy", was furious and left the company, later to resurface at GM as the main guy directing their future product development. Eaton's contacts were all over Europe and it was no surprise, at least to me, that he worked out a deal with Daimler. Of course the deal rewarded him with GREAT personal financial gain, and after it was done, he dropped way out of sight, which was to be expected. After all, he had just orchestrated the rape of 5 Billion in cash from Chrysler and perpetrated a huge ruse on the automotive world claiming to everyone that the deal with Daimler was a "merger of equals" when nothing could have been further from the truth.

That deal was a clear and unmistakeable raid on the finances that Chrysler had accumulated over the previous few successful years that served to prop up Daimler at a time when they were cash poor, producing less than exciting autos and under sales attack by a surging BMW and Audi in the home and American market and Acura, Infiniti and Lexus mostly in the US market.

During this time, the America automobile press was anxiously waiting to see what new product would be forth coming from the new DaimlerChrysler, as it was being called. Almost without exception, the wait produced nothing but mediocre and lackluster products. The 300 and Charger were pretty well received, but the Caliper, Sebring, Avenger, Compass, Nitro, Pacifica, and Magum were all met with "ho-hum" reactions. The revised Grand Cherokee, Ram pickups and Minivans were thought to be fine automobiles, but considering the revered status that Daimler had in the automotive world, the expectations for the new product, with the infusion of the Daimler worldclass engineering and design, had set the imaginary bar so high that anything less than a "Grand Slam" product was deemed a failure.

The Daimler stock at this time had plummeted, and the major stockholders of Daimler, like Deutsche Bank were losing Billions in net worth so they began to apply so much pressure on the management of Daimler, that they had no choice but to dump the ailing automaker at a bargain basement price just to save their jobs. But no matter, they had gotten what they came for, the cash, and if they could get out of the Chrysler at little or no net loss, they would be well ahead of the game.

Enter Cerberus financial, a private equity group that had a track record of buying troubled companies, chopping them up, selling off the valuable pieces at a profit and then moving on to the next acquisition. When Cerberus bought the gutted remains of Chrysler, we (I was running a large Chrysler store at the time) thought for sure the company would get broken up. The Jeep brand was far and away the most valuable piece of the Chrysler organization and we thought it would be sold off.....we expected to see the Dodge brand taken mainly for the truck business and most likely the Chrysler piece would be just unceremoniously tossed into the dust bin along with Oldsmobile, Mercury, Pontiac and Plymouth, to name a few.

But before that could be done, if in fact that was the plan, Chrysler was thrust into bankruptcy along with GM during the huge auto sales down turn of a few years ago. Now enter Fiat into the picture. Fiat, at this time, coincidentally, was debating whether or not to reenter the US market. They were eyeballing the success of Scion, Mini and to a lesser extent Smart. Everyone was watching the rise in World Oil prices and anticipating the fickle American auto buyer would again abandon their beloved Pickups and SUV's and embrace the fuel efficient micro-mini auto. Further Fiat was banking on the short memory of the American auto buying public, as Fiat abandoned the US market before running back to Europe to escape the horror stories of poor quality auto's that required constant attention. Ah, but to build the necessary infrastructure and distribution network for a new auto here in the US is a massive and prohibitively expensive proposition. But if Fiat could "piggyback" onto someone else's network, the cost comes down to a manageable figure and it becomes attractive. Just at this time, the Chrysler bankrupt erupts and the US Government, contrary to some thinking, really doesn't want to be in the car business, so the marriage of Chrysler and Fiat serves all the players best interest. The auto workers, the auto workers union, our Government, Fiat's desire to renter this market and the American auto buyer all benefit and get want they want. Hopefully we will get some exciting and unique products coming from this new union, and if we do, it will insure that the other manufactures will have to step up their game to keep up. It is a win, win, win, win, win situation.

So the point of this little history is to drive home the fact that the integrity and the continuity of Chrysler has been interrupted countless times. It is surprising, at least to me, that Chrysler has any sense of heritage or history at all. Every few years there were new directives, new people bringing new ideas and demands to the company. Front wheel 6 cylinder drive cab forward designs give way to V8 rear drive platforms, the minivan, once the backbone of the product line is being cutback as others now dominate that market. The Viper comes, goes and comes again, most likely. There has been profound and fundamental changes at Chrysler over the past few years and loss or retention of names from the past, is the least of their worries. After running a Chrysler store during this period of Chrysler turbulence and watching everything unfold from a front row seat, I think it is a testament to the people at Chrysler, the guys who actually did the design and engineering on the grassroots level, that they have any continuity at all.

[sjordan2]

Nicely written, Peter. Let's hope that FIAT will no longer stand for "Fix It Again, Tony."