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1/16th-Scale Drag Racing Photo Etch Ideas-Info Update 7/18/12


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#1 futurattraction

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:41 AM

My goal is to expand my photo etch choices to include 1/16th scale drag racing parts, be it doorslammers or open cockpit. This will take several months to accomplish as the cost to get new images produced through my photo etcher is not an inexpensive proposition, plus I’m hoping to start getting my 1/25th-scale Fairmont bodies in to sell before too much longer. Most material thickness will fall between .008” (.128” in 1:1) and .020” (.032” in 1:1). My goal is to have as much of it done rubber backed as possible, for the sake of “clean” parts, but there are limits to rubber backing thicker materials. Materials choices are brass, nickel-silver and stainless steel.

My question is this: What are some of the most popular or universally needed pieces that would enhance detail in models of this scale? Please try to think in terms of 1:1 parts that would fall into the .125” to .035” thick range, to maintain a level of scale realism. 3D is possible as long as bends are not complicated. Parts that I’ve already drawn up include: drilled brake rotors, NOS upright-mounted bottle brackets and handles, hand brake lever with separate grips, window bezels, and 4-link brackets with anti-roll ears. Other suggested pieces include butterfly steering wheels, door hinges and blower restraint hold-down plate/bracket. Oh, there’s one other catch. If you suggest something, I will probably ask you to provide either a picture of what you have in mind, and/or dimensions. This project will a WIP. I’m curious what kinds of thoughts or suggestions you all have…

Edited by futurattraction, 18 July 2012 - 03:33 AM.


#2 Romell R

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:52 AM

I think 1/16th scale two part Dzus fastners in stainless steel would be a good start

#3 Old Sprinter

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:28 AM

Dzus fasteners in 1/8 scale would sell along with 1/16. Toggle switches and the ring that goes around guages, seat belt hardware, fuel caps, axle and chassis brackets with multiple mounts. I could go on and on. Do you think you could do a few 1/8 scale parts also? Some parts for a dragster also will work on circle track cars. Food for thought, good luck and when you get it done, show it all over the net at every model site there is. Ken

#4 Mooneyzs

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:47 AM

Great thread Scott. I will think of some ideas and let you all know some thoughts I have.

#5 jmpsebring

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:08 AM

The starter mounting plate with slots for the front of blower pulleys.
Suspension mounts and D-shaped mounting tabs to attach to frame rails for various applications. The rear frame mounts for the rear axle. If you need to double up to make the correct thickness, put two sets or design with gluing to sheet plastic for easy shaping and drilling. A fold up wheelie bar wheel-holder. Various links for throttles. Strips with 5/32? holes and bolt holes used to make header/intake flanges. Buyer cuts to length as needed. Wire loom strips. A thin straight maybe 2mm strip with perfect spaced holes one could use for window trim or as a drilling guide for perfectly spaced drilling. A narrow strip of timing marks one could wrap around a pulley. Round drilled circles one use on the back of many blowers. I hope this helps B)

We are scratch builders more than model builders. things like this save time.

Edited by jmpsebring, 24 February 2012 - 11:14 AM.


#6 futurattraction

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:06 PM

Wow, Jack. Did you take a breath anywhere during your list recitation??? :D In all sincerity, that is exactly the type of stuff I info I was looking for. I'll continue the conversation by asking a question that you or other 1/16th builders should be able to answer. For tube chassis suspension brackets, etc., is there a preferred size of tubing/plastic frame rail material that I should size brackets to fit when I draw the fishmouthed part of the bracket? I'm sure I'll have other questions, but this is a simple start. According to my math, a 1-5/8" diameter frame rail tubing member should be ~.102 in 1/16th scale... SP

#7 futurattraction

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:53 PM

OK.

Jack - What type of material thicknesses in 1:1 are we talking? I'm a car guy so can make some logical guesses based on my on experience with 1:1, but chime in if you think I'm off-base. Suspension mounts/D tabs are going to be in the 1/8" to 3/16" thick range. Rear frame mounts, which I'm assuming you're meaning 4-link chassis mounts (or?), which are customarily 1/4" for the HD ones. If you're talking something else, i.e., F/C or T/F mounts let me know. Throttle linkage is probably 1/8" or lighter, unless it's billet, then it would probably be 1/4"; wheelie bar wheel mounts are probably 1/8", timing strips, for what I'd be doing are going to be thin, in order to easily wrap around a damper. Window trim strips and templates for spacing holes could be made fairly light-weight. I have no idea about blower pulley starter mount thickness. Header flanges would be 1/4"-3/8" under most circumstances. Any thoughts or suggestions (or corrections) are welcome to help fill out this piece of the puzzle.

Rommell - I think Dzus fasteners are a natural thing to make. I'm not sure if the SS is the way to go or not. If those are the only item I would be having etched in SS, it's probably not the material I'd use. Nickel-silver can have a nice finish that's very similar in appearance to SS if polished up. You're talking about the button and receiver as two separate pieces, is that correct? Or are you talking about a self-ejecting Dzus that has the built-in mount, then a separate mounting plate as the second part? Just wanting to clarify.

Ken - I've got a whole different set of things I will talk about, but I'm going to devote a separate reply to that, which I'll post later.

#8 Prostreet

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:17 PM

Everybody pretty much nailed everything i would like to see, For the front mouting tabs for the A-arms for the struts, The brackets i made mount to .100" styrene rod. I think pretty much if you did them to fit .080" or .100" size rod you would be good, That seems to be the most common size for the front of a 1/16th scale chassis. Maybe some mounts to mount the front clip on the front of the chassis like in the picture. maybe some chute handle's, brake and gas pedals, I'm sure some other things will pop into my head.

Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by Prostreet, 24 February 2012 - 03:00 PM.


#9 Len Woodruff

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:47 PM

Keep this comiing. I ready to buy it all!!

:P

#10 plasticbutcher

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:05 AM

How about a four speed floor shift like an after market "hurst" type shifter, I would buy a few of those, or a photo etch grill for 1/16 55 56 57 chevys

#11 jmpsebring

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:44 PM

just to open this think tank up some..... Let's talk hole sizes for example. Whatever is real in 1/1 scale, has a real part that fits it. In scale, we need to have parts that fit RB/Proline/Scale Hardware/etc stuff. We need a blower hold down plate for the flashpoint engine. Plus the slots must be big enough for the straps we use to pass through. If they are too narrow the plate is useless. If we take our time, and think ..we can design parts for joining/improving existing parts. Dzus fasteners in multi parts are fine, but little mounting tabs we can put on frames that have a larger center hole with two tiny holes on either side woulds make your Dzus fasteners and matching tabs the must have version.Pop in a couple of scale hardware rivets....! You need to put 50 on a sheet, not 10. Thickness can be done more than one way. You can use the P/E part as a perfect pattern or glue it to a thicker part allowing one to quickly cut down to a perfect shape. P/e parts can stack to make the right thickess. You could also make a thin and thicker sheet. The window rivet spacing strip can be a tool instead of the part itself. Tameo 1/43rds would cut slots in their P/E "trees" sections so you would have perfect folding guides for parts. If the parts bent fit through the slots..you know it's the right shape. If this is all too "wordy" then sorry. I'm an instructor and technical writer.(who can't spell well) I overstate everything. But I'm not saying anything new here that's not already being thought of as we build cars in this scale. Now that I've scanned many of the projects, there are clearly those builder's light years more talented than I. Romell having to cut and solder tiny tabs to a window frame is tedious to say the least! that's exactly where P/E shines. Some have built chassis and cars. I have not built anything. In fact I just discovered 1/16th drag cars a few weeks ago. I'm just seeing their obstacles as I go through their builds. We need input from those people. From what I can see right now, this could be done right the first time if we pool our knowlege together part-by-part.

Edited by jmpsebring, 25 February 2012 - 06:48 PM.


#12 futurattraction

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:39 PM

Thanks Jack. No need to apologize for wordiness. I'm the same way. LOL This sort of thing is what we need to talk about. I have tried to incorporate many of the same thought processes in my 1/25th parts design. I've made brake caliper brackets that are slotted so they can fold around the rotor. The brackets then provide a base for resin calipers to attach, which makes for a reasonably convincing looking setup in that scale. I completely agree that stuff that is designed must be compatible with already-existing products on the market, be they RB Motion, Scale Hardware, etc., fasteners, or kit/resin parts, which of course presents a potential challenge. If I'm designing a part for a 426 Hemi, which manufacturer do I design to fit? You're correct in that a thicker piece can be made by attaching multiple pieces together or adding styrene sheet, etc. I'm gonna go to be for tonight but will try to pick up on more of this soon. Keep the thoughts coming!

#13 stump

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:51 PM

Hey Scott,
I can't think of a whole lot more to add here, most things the guys covered pretty well. :)
What I would like to give you, is a hint (kind push :D ) towards maybe some 1/12 photo-etch.....???

I realise it will generate it's own drama regarding sizes, thickness etc.....but really, there ain't much out there. :(
Not too much at all really, even as far as a base "subject" goes, but that has been helped immensly by Tim @ TDR.
Hoping some of the guys will jump on Dave's/Tim's new 69 Camaro ProMod in the 1/12 scale.....I KNOW I will be...........soon. B) ;)

Food for thought...

#14 futurattraction

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:53 PM

Hey guys. I want to get back onto this. Was out sick last week and have been playing catch-up ever since. I've got a general idea of what I think I'd lean toward making. From a practical standpoint, the initial sets of parts should fit the most universal application. For instance, Dzus fasteners and chassis/suspension mounting brackets can be used on anything, from drag to dirt track and even, to some degree, street-type applications. On the subject of Dzus fasteners, there are a number of different styles of Dzus spring mounting plates. I'm attaching a sample of the types I've drawn up, but I'd like feedback as to which version(s) would be most desireable. Hand brake and chute release/door handle levers are another set of parts that would seem to have more appeal, especially since it sounds like 1/16th is being resurrected to some degree. A question I would like some feedback on is this: what axle housing diameters are the popular ones in 1/16th and possibly even 1/12th. Is there a need or desire for 1/8th scale 4-link brackets in PE? On a related and yet totally separate thought, has anyone seen any pictures of the front side of the Strange Ultra 4-Link rear end housing? I have only seen pics and drawings of it from the side, rear and quartering rear angles. Thoughts???

Attached Files



#15 phantom1

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:04 PM

scott those look great

#16 Mike Kucaba

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:14 PM

I guess I'd look at all the 1/24-25th scale PE to see what that scale has. Also,do you want to duplicate others? It's nice to have a fullline of parts,but aren't there a lot of PE dzus fasteners? If you can do them better,then,by all means go for it.

#17 futurattraction

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:32 PM

Thanks Henry...

Mike - you're right; there are a few others out there doing Dzus fasteners. I'm not sure in what scale everyone's doing them, so I guess the jury may still be out on them. Part of me wants to try my hand at doing them, just because it's fun and a challenge. Maybe others should weigh-in on that topic and see where it points me. I've got several different PE offerings in the 1/24th-25th scale and it seems to be popular, of the guys who have used it. Many of my parts are niche parts, such as the hand brake levers, strut front end detailing parts, 4-link brackets, pedal arms, etc. Thanks for your input, Mike!

#18 iBorg

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:53 PM

I'd love to have the Dzus fasteners as a first step. These could be used on almost any drag car. One challenge with many of the suggestions is the lack of readily abvailable donor kits. The Revell drag kits are more readily available than the MPC 1/16 kits. The exceptions are the Street Charger (I know its been re-released but haven't seen one) and the C4 Corvette, a kit everyone has at least one of and no one builds.

#19 comp1839

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:28 PM

scott, i'd just like to say that, while others may be doing photoetch parts. i think you supplying them does 2 things:

1) gives the buyer the ability to go to one place to find his all his drag race photo etch.

2) my confidence that you have scaled your photo etch "correctly" is much greater. i know you are doing your homework on this.

that being said, i DID NOT say anyone else's photo etch is incorrect. i'm saying i can't be sure since i don't know them. i'm familiar with scott's work and i have a very high confidence factor with scott.

in my book scott, i would do as complete of a product line as you can tolerate and don't worry about the rest.

if you are building your 4-link brackets to fit a specific plastic model rear end, i can't help you with an axle tube dia.. if you are building off 1:1 specs. the axle tube dia. currently being used in fabricated rears is 3.5". in 1:16 that's 7/32" or .219". in 1:12 it's.292". i'd round it down to a .281" tube dia.

are you contemplating creating the "ulra" rear? or are you just interested in the 4 link plates for it?

hope this helps.

#20 futurattraction

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:36 AM

Thanks Dave. Your comments help considerably. And thanks for the very kind words. All I can say is I'm tryin'...

My original question about axle housing diameter was premised on the idea of making PE brackets that fit current rear ends, but maybe that's coming at it from "the wrong end". I should probably stick to basing off 1:1 dimensions and rounding up/down a few thousandths to fit common tube sizes and call it a day, as you suggested. Guys can adapt to the necessary tubing size and have the satisfaction of knowing dimensions are as true to scale as possible.

I've been drawing up an Ultra 4-link housing, with the goal to have it available, eventually. It's driving me nuts not knowing how it looks from the front side. I can only do so much, based on existing drawings. I know that, based on the axle housing bells that there's a transition to the flat portion of the housing where the center section bolts up, but... no go on pics so far.